New WD 160g stuck in PIO instead of Ultra DMA

[Steve M. Mann]

Hello all,

I just added a new Western Digital 160g Caviar SE (wd1600jb) to my
system as a primary slave (on the same cable as the master, and
physically jumpered as slave). I can't get the new drive to utilize
Ultra DMA. It's currently stuck in PIO. The OS is Win2k (sp4). It's a
Dell Opti-Plex GX-270 PC.

I've followed all the solutions and workarounds I can find on the Dell
and WD sites. Including uninstalling the IDE primary channel driver and
restarting Windows. Still no go. The IDE/ATA information still shows PIO
even though it's set for auto detect.

Could this be a motherboard issue? The primary master drive uses Ultra
DMA, no problem. Should I just throw in a Promise Ultra DMA controller
and be done with it?

Thanks for any suggestions.

 

[Rod Speed]

I just added a new Western Digital 160g Caviar SE (wd1600jb)
to my system as a primary slave (on the same cable as the
master, and physically jumpered as slave). I can't get the
new drive to utilize Ultra DMA. It's currently stuck in PIO.

The usual cause of that is a bad cable or the cable on backwards.

The OS is Win2k (sp4).
It's a Dell Opti-Plex GX-270 PC.

I've followed all the solutions and workarounds I can find on the
Dell and WD sites. Including uninstalling the IDE primary channel
driver and restarting Windows. Still no go. The IDE/ATA information
still shows PIO even though it's set for auto detect.

Could this be a motherboard issue?

Very unlikely.

The primary master drive uses Ultra DMA, no problem.

Should I just throw in a Promise Ultra DMA controller and be done with it?

Nope, likely a new cable will fix the problem or install it the right way
around.

 

[Steve M. Mann]

The usual cause of that is a bad cable or the cable on backwards.




Very unlikely.



Nope, likely a new cable will fix the problem or install it the right way
around.

Thanks for the quick response. I've used the original cable and the one
that came with the new drive. Same results on both cables.

Anything else I can check?

 

[Rod Speed]

Rod Speed wrote

Thanks for the quick response. I've used the original cable and the
one that came with the new drive. Same results on both cables.

You sure you had them both on the right way around ?
The blue connector should be plugged into the motherboard.

Anything else I can check?

Try uninstalling the IDE driver again, with the new
cable that came with the drive. Win will turn DMA
off if it sees a high level of errors with DMA on.

 

[Peter]

I just added a new Western Digital 160g Caviar SE (wd1600jb) to my

system as a primary slave (on the same cable as the master, and
physically jumpered as slave). I can't get the new drive to utilize
Ultra DMA. It's currently stuck in PIO. The OS is Win2k (sp4). It's a
Dell Opti-Plex GX-270 PC.

I've followed all the solutions and workarounds I can find on the Dell
and WD sites. Including uninstalling the IDE primary channel driver and
restarting Windows. Still no go. The IDE/ATA information still shows PIO
even though it's set for auto detect.

Could this be a motherboard issue? The primary master drive uses Ultra
DMA, no problem. Should I just throw in a Promise Ultra DMA controller
and be done with it?

Hmm, Windows 2000 SP4. Try with BartPE CD and only new drive hooked up as a
test.
BTW, check electrolytic capacitors on this MB.

 

[Steve M. Mann]

On 12/13/2005 4:29 PM, Rod Speed pondered for some undetermined amount
of time then wrote:

[...]

You sure you had them both on the right way around ?
The blue connector should be plugged into the motherboard.

Yup. Positive it was right. Initially, I just added the drive to the
current configuration. I didn't unplug the cable from the MB.

Try uninstalling the IDE driver again, with the new
cable that came with the drive. Win will turn DMA
off if it sees a high level of errors with DMA on.

Okay, I'll try it. I should have done that before replying, but I'll get
back to the thread after I try it out.

Thanks,
--
Steve
Project-43
http://steve-mann.com/p43
"If you think I'll sit around while you chip away my brain, listen I
ain't foolin' and you'd better think again."

 

[Folkert Rienstra]

Hello all,

I just added a new Western Digital 160g Caviar SE (wd1600jb) to my
system as a primary slave (on the same cable as the master, and
physically jumpered as slave). I can't get the new drive to utilize
Ultra DMA. It's currently stuck in PIO. The OS is Win2k (sp4). It's a
Dell Opti-Plex GX-270 PC.

I've followed all the solutions and workarounds I can find on the Dell
and WD sites. Including uninstalling the IDE primary channel driver and
restarting Windows. Still no go. The IDE/ATA information still shows PIO

even though it's set for auto detect.

Set for autodetect where?

 

[Steve M. Mann]

On 12/13/2005 4:29 PM, Rod Speed pondered for some undetermined amount
of time then wrote:

[...]

You sure you had them both on the right way around ?
The blue connector should be plugged into the motherboard.

Yup. Positive it was right. Initially, I just added the drive to the
current configuration. I didn't unplug the cable from the MB.

Try uninstalling the IDE driver again, with the new
cable that came with the drive. Win will turn DMA
off if it sees a high level of errors with DMA on.

Okay, I'll try it. I should have done that before replying, but I'll get
back to the thread after I try it out.

Dang. No go. Deleted the IDE driver and rebooted with the new cable in
place. Same results.

--
Steve
Project-43
http://steve-mann.com/p43
"There are those who think that life has nothing left to chance, a host
of holy horrors to direct our aimless dance."

 

[Steve M. Mann]

You sure you had them both on the right way around ?
The blue connector should be plugged into the motherboard.


Try uninstalling the IDE driver again, with the new
cable that came with the drive. Win will turn DMA
off if it sees a high level of errors with DMA on.

Got it! I'm kinda embarrassed that I didn't think to check here much
earlier in the process, but I wanted to let you know I solved the
problem. The Primary Slave was turned OFF in the system BIOS. The drive
still worked in Windows, but I guess being turned off in the BIOS kept
Windows from utilizing the Ultra DMA.

I enabled the slave in the BIOS and now the drive is screaming along
playing all of my multi-track recordings at a much better playback rate
(no skipping mega multi-tracks).

Thanks for your assistance!
--
Steve
Project-43
http://steve-mann.com/p43
"Philosophers and plowmen, each must do his part. To sow a new
mentality, closer to the heart."

 

[Rod Speed]

Got it! I'm kinda embarrassed that I didn't think to check here much
earlier in the process, but I wanted to let you know I solved the
problem. The Primary Slave was turned OFF in the system BIOS. The drive still
worked in Windows, but I guess being turned off in the BIOS kept Windows from
utilizing the Ultra DMA.

Yeah, classic example of what you kick yourself about when you find it.

I enabled the slave in the BIOS and now the drive is screaming along
playing all of my multi-track recordings at a much better playback
rate (no skipping mega multi-tracks).

Thanks for your assistance!

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[Folkert Rienstra]

Yeah, classic example of what you kick yourself about when you find it.

Well, you shouldn't. This is unexpected. This shouldn't produce what it did.
Certainly not with autodetect. Autodetect would be a misnomer.

 

[Rod Speed]

Well, you shouldn't.

Yes I should, once the most common causes of no
DMA had been eliminated. Should have said to check
the drive jumpering too since you can get some odd
results when the drive isnt jumpered correctly too.

Should have suggested trying it as the only drive on the ribbon cable
too in case it was some quirk with a particular pair of drives on a cable.

Bit flat out doing other stuff that day basically.

When the obvious has been eliminated its important to check
all the less likely config issues too, before assuming that its
either a motherboard with bad caps or taking the easy way
out and adding a PCI controller for the drive.

This is unexpected. This shouldn't produce what it did.

Yes, but once the obvious has been eliminated, its then
essential to check the less obvious for just such situations.

Certainly not with autodetect. Autodetect would be a misnomer.

There is no auto detect with the drive type for that drive set to NONE.
Its clearly been picked up by the separate scan for drives that Win
does and that is showing up one deficiency with that scan Win does.

 

[Rod Speed]

Set for autodetect where?

In 2K presumably.

 

[Folkert Rienstra]

Yes I should,

Typical, I wasn't referring to you. You don't matter.

once the most common causes of no DMA had been eliminated. Should have
said to check the drive jumpering too since you can get some odd results

But not the one described.

when the drive isnt jumpered correctly too.

Should have suggested trying it as the only drive on the ribbon cable
too in case it was some quirk with a particular pair of drives on a cable.
Yeah.


Bit flat out doing other stuff that day basically.

Nonsense, that's what you're doing every day.

When the obvious has been eliminated its important to check
all the less likely config issues too,

before assuming that its either a motherboard with bad caps

That would be another weird assumption.

or taking the easy way out and adding a PCI controller for the drive.

Assuming that would help. Another grasp at straws.

Yes, but once the obvious has been eliminated, its then
essential to check the less obvious for just such situations.

Yes, but that goes only sofar.
This setting should be perfectly alright and not affect Windows.

There is no auto detect with the drive type for that drive set to NONE.

You call OP a liar then, is it?

Its clearly been picked up by the separate scan for drives that Win
does and that is showing up one deficiency with that scan Win does.

Yes and obviously OP was referring to the OS with regard to autodetect,
not the BIOS since he can't have seen this option there if it was set to 'NONE'.

The OS should do the autodetecting the same way the BIOS would have done it.
It obviously failed at doing that.

 

[Rod Speed]

Typical, I wasn't referring to you. You don't matter.

Couldnt bullshit its way out of a wet paper bag...

But not the one described.

Bet you would have made the same claim about
what turned out to be the cause of that effect.

Nonsense, that's what you're doing every day.

Wrong, as always.

That would be another weird assumption.

Those are worth considering when the basics arent the cause.

Assuming that would help.

It would almost certainly fix the problem with the drive not
having DMA enabled, tho it would be a very crude kludge.

Another grasp at straws.

Nope, no straw involved, it would get DMA on the drive.

Yes, but that goes only sofar.

Nope, ALL faults can ALWAYS be resolved. The only question
that matters is whether the effort required is worth it.

This setting should be perfectly alright and not affect Windows.

And the real world turns out to be different, as it sometimes does.

You call OP a liar then, is it?

Nope. Just poorly worded.

Yes and obviously OP was referring to the OS with regard to autodetect,
not the BIOS since he can't have seen this option there if it was set to
'NONE'.

The OS should do the autodetecting the same way the
BIOS would have done it. It obviously failed at doing that.

Duh. Even that sort of unusual wart can be resolved by checking
the less likely possibility when the more likely dont fix it.

Its not as if checking that sort of thing takes much effort.

 

[Steve M. Mann]

In 2K presumably.

That is correct. And just to be clear, the option was grayed out and
could not be changed from the 'Auto Detect' setting it was in.

It appears I could have worded my original post a little better.
Whatever the case, I'm just happy it's working now and that I figured
out that issue was.

Thanks again.

 

[Folkert Rienstra]

That is correct. And just to be clear, the option was grayed out and
could not be changed from the 'Auto Detect' setting it was in.

Sounds like a misnomer then. Supposedly it can't be changed because
it doesn't do anything other than take the state that it is in.

Greyed out means ignore here rather than not changeable.
That is rather poor design. and unexpected.
Does right-click help have anything useful to say about that?

Once you know what impact this has it is easier to decide what else to check.

 

[Rod Speed]

Sounds like a misnomer then. Supposedly it can't be changed
because it doesn't do anything other than take the state that it is in.

Or its only greyed out in some situations like when the
drive doesnt have an entry in the bios drive table etc or
when 2K doesnt like the response it gets from the drive.

Greyed out means ignore here rather than not changeable.

Nope, it means not changeable in that particular config.

That is rather poor design.

Not necessarily. It may just be done for safety when
2K cant work out the drive's capability response.

and unexpected.
Nope.

Does right-click help have anything useful to say about that?

Once you know what impact this has it
is easier to decide what else to check.

It makes more sense to check the basics and thats what he did.

 

[Folkert Rienstra]

Or its only greyed out in some situations like when the
drive doesnt have an entry in the bios drive table etc

That would mean that you can't use the Windows only (biosless )
add-in controllers that are available for sale on Windows itself.
Yup Roddles, that makes a lot of sense. Thank you.

or when 2K doesnt like the response it gets from the drive.

In which case it should ignore the drive and show it as disabled
in device manager.

Nope, it means not changeable in that particular config.

Apparently not, given the result. It doesn't do what it says it does.

Not necessarily.

Yes, it is, given it's result.

It may just be done for safety when 2K cant
work out the drive's capability response.

And that's exactly why one should be able to set it oneself.

Yep.



It makes more sense to check the basics and thats what he did.

As a last resort after he had pulled all his hair.

 

[Rod Speed]

That would mean that you can't use the Windows only (biosless )
add-in controllers that are available for sale on Windows itself.

No it doesnt. You dont know that 2K greys that out with all drives
that dont have an entry in the bios drive table. 2K could have just
given up on the response it got from the particular hard drive when
it was queried about what its capabilitys are. There may just be
some quirk with a particular drive's response on that.

In which case it should ignore the drive
and show it as disabled in device manager.

Nope, makes more sense to use the lowest common denominator instead.

Apparently not, given the result. It doesn't do what it says it does.

With that particular hard drive. You dont know that it always greys
that out with all hard drives that dont have a drive type entry.

Its very likely just a blemish in 2K. You dont see too many saying
they get that effect when the drive doesnt have an entry in the
drive table. So its likely only seen with some hard drives etc.

Yes, it is, given it's result.

No it isnt if its only seen rarely with some hard drives.

And that's exactly why one should be able to set it oneself.

That risks it being set inappropriately.

2K has never let the user override what 2K has decided is
appropriate with that setting when its decided that DMA is too risky.

Nope.

As a last resort after he had pulled all his hair.

Doesnt happen if you know what you are doing. You try the common
causes of a lack of DMA and then try the less common causes when
the common causes doesnt produce DMA. No need to tear any hair,
just debug the possibilitys systematically, from most likely to less likely.

Its ALWAYS possible to work out what the problem is, the only
question is whether its worth the effort and it obviously is with
something as simple to check as the drive type and jumpers.