new pc-build components (please help tweak)

[Jolly Rogers]

Greetings all...

I am building a new PC soon. I built one for my wife last year and it turned
out fine.

I have assembled the list of components below. Feel free to offer opinions
or advice. I am fairly sure these will all function together, but if you see
anything I missed or have an opinion, please share your experiences and
knowledge.

I feel like waiting for a 1 TB SSD to come out someday (and drop in price),
rather than building a machine now with a SATA hard drive, but if I keep
waiting for the "next level" to emerge, I will never act and build a new
machine. :-/

....anyway, here's my list of stuff I am considering.

hard drive - Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD5000AAKS 500 GB Internal SATA
Hard Drive: $64.80
motherboard - Intel DX58SO Core i7 Motherboard - Nehalem Socket 1366:
$229.99
processor - Intel i7 core 2 920: $297.22
memory - SAMSUNG 4GB 2x 2GB DDR3 PC3-8500 1066 SONY VAIO Z570: $98.00
case / power supply - Sonata III Quiet Super Mini with 500w power supply:
$98.53
audio card - M-Audio Audiophile 192 Sound card - 192 kHz - 24-bit: $119.99
video card - Sapphire 100225L ATI Radeon HD 3870: $111.97
monitor - KDS K-2626MDHWB 26" WideScreen LCD 1920 x 1200 $339.00
DVD/CD-RW combo - Lite-On DH-52C2S: $21.90
USB keyboard/mouse - Logitech Internet 350 USB Keyboard & RX300 Optical
Mouse Combo: $14.59

total price: $1,395.99

Comments and advice appreciated.

Cheers,
Jolly Rogers

 

[Fishface]

monitor - KDS K-2626MDHWB 26" WideScreen LCD 1920 x 1200 $339.00
DVD/CD-RW combo - Lite-On DH-52C2S: $21.90
USB keyboard/mouse - Logitech Internet 350 USB Keyboard & RX300 Optical Mouse Combo: $14.59

That's a lot to spend, and yet you pick the cheapest parts that you can find
for the ones you actually interact with-- keyboard, mouse, and monitor.

One of the reviewers on Newegg says of this monitor:

Other Thoughts: I wasn't expecting a whole lot with a cheap monitor and I've had
other cheap monitors before but this monitor disappointed me. The problem is that
the back light is noticeably uneven and the viewing angles are HORRIBLE. I know
it's a TN monitor but it's got the worse viewing angles of any modern TN I've ever
seen. If I slouch in my seat, the colors at the top of the screen will start to invert
which is unacceptable. Spend a little more and get something else.

 

[Paul]

Greetings all...

I am building a new PC soon. I built one for my wife last year and it turned
out fine.

I have assembled the list of components below. Feel free to offer opinions
or advice. I am fairly sure these will all function together, but if you see
anything I missed or have an opinion, please share your experiences and
knowledge.

I feel like waiting for a 1 TB SSD to come out someday (and drop in price),
rather than building a machine now with a SATA hard drive, but if I keep
waiting for the "next level" to emerge, I will never act and build a new
machine. :-/

...anyway, here's my list of stuff I am considering.

hard drive - Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD5000AAKS 500 GB Internal SATA
Hard Drive: $64.80
motherboard - Intel DX58SO Core i7 Motherboard - Nehalem Socket 1366:
$229.99
processor - Intel i7 core 2 920: $297.22
memory - SAMSUNG 4GB 2x 2GB DDR3 PC3-8500 1066 SONY VAIO Z570: $98.00
case / power supply - Sonata III Quiet Super Mini with 500w power supply:
$98.53
audio card - M-Audio Audiophile 192 Sound card - 192 kHz - 24-bit: $119.99
video card - Sapphire 100225L ATI Radeon HD 3870: $111.97
monitor - KDS K-2626MDHWB 26" WideScreen LCD 1920 x 1200 $339.00
DVD/CD-RW combo - Lite-On DH-52C2S: $21.90
USB keyboard/mouse - Logitech Internet 350 USB Keyboard & RX300 Optical
Mouse Combo: $14.59

total price: $1,395.99

Comments and advice appreciated.

Cheers,
Jolly Rogers

Read the reviews first. DX58SO.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16813121361

What were you planning on doing with it ?

Note that the LGA1366 has a triple-channel interface. You'd
want 3x1GB DDR3 so that all three channels are populated.
(3x2GB if using a 64 bit OS.) There are memory kits now,
of low voltage memory, for use with Nehalem. Regular DDR3 memory,
at least the high clocking stuff, has had higher voltage
specs to meet timing. So some care should be taken in memory
selection. (The DX58SO has four memory slots, meaning the
last DIMM is an "odd man" and connected to one of the
three channels. I did not include the odd man in the
figure below, because it is just silly.)

I cannot find enough info on memory modes, to know
what memory population patterns are supported. I downloaded
an Asus motherboard manual, and the table in the doc, doesn't
match one comment below the table. It would appear the
processor supports 1, 2, or 3 sticks, and the difference
would be the resulting memory bandwidth. The Asus manual
suggests the memory controller supports Flex Memory, meaning
if the size of DIMMs per channel doesn't match, the left
over memory runs in single channel mode. If you're spending
this kind of money, get three matching sticks

Core i7 ----+----- Channel0_DDR3 (1.5V nom, 1.65V max
| +----- Channel1_DDR3 recommended currently)
QPI | 12.8 +----- Channel2_DDR3
| GB/sec
8GB/sec |
Video -------- Northbridge
Video -------- |
8GB/sec | x4
DMI | 1GB/sec
|
Southbridge --- PCI
| --- PCI Express (x6 lanes total)
(SATA,USB)

The case has a 500W power supply. Processor will draw 12A max
from 12V2. 12V1 provides the rest of the power. The HD3870 is
82 watts from 12V1, or 6.8A. The hard drive, optical and
fans, won't put a dent in the remaining 12V1. So the power
supply should be fine.

+3.3V @ 24A, +5V @ 24A, +12V1 @ 17A, +12V2 @ 17A, -12V @ 0.8A, +5VSB @ 2.5A

http://www.antec.com/pdf/manuals/SonataIII_500_EN_manual.pdf

EA500
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371007

I would check the feature set of the sound card drivers. If
you're planning on gaming, the sound card may not support
EAX. That is just a suspicion I have. To me, M-Audio means
"music or recording", and for other applications, you
may want to read their product details carefully. (The
manual mentions ASIO and WDM in the drivers. I'd guess
WDM gives the Windows sound through your speakers. But
gaming would use things like EAX or OpenAL, depending
on OS choice.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_Stream_Input/Output (ASIO)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenAL (OpenAL)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_audio_extensions (EAX)

HTH,
Paul

 

[Jolly Rogers]

That's a lot to spend, and yet you pick the cheapest parts that you can
find
for the ones you actually interact with-- keyboard, mouse, and monitor.

One of the reviewers on Newegg says of this monitor:

Other Thoughts: I wasn't expecting a whole lot with a cheap monitor and
I've had
other cheap monitors before but this monitor disappointed me. The problem
is that
the back light is noticeably uneven and the viewing angles are HORRIBLE. I
know
it's a TN monitor but it's got the worse viewing angles of any modern TN
I've ever
seen. If I slouch in my seat, the colors at the top of the screen will
start to invert
which is unacceptable. Spend a little more and get something else.

Thanks, Fishface. I will look at other monitors.

Cheers,
Jolly Rogers

 

[Jolly Rogers]

Read the reviews first. DX58SO.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16813121361

What were you planning on doing with it ?

A few things...

- recording and mixing my songs and vocals
- watching movies and tv shows via the tv-out option on the ATI card (I port
them out to my television)
- surfing and downloading very large files
- running resource intensive excel spreadsheets with lots of math calcs
- working with large graphic files

So, a mix of work and play. My current computer is a Dell Dimension 8250
that I purchased new in March 2003. It still works quite well, but the power
supply fan is noisy. I still haven't ruled out replacing the power supply
and living with the Dimension until very large SSDs are released.

[good mem advice snipped for brevity]

If you're spending this kind of money, get three matching sticks

That's great news I can use. I knew that it came with three channels, but I
was not aware of how memory was utilized. Thanks! I may go with 6GB - 2x2x2.

I think it may can use 1333 memory, vice the 1066. I' m checking now. I
think it depends on the OS, which I have not settled on. I am strongly
leaning to Ubuntu Linux, but some of my apps depend on Windows. I am pleased
with XP Pro SP3 and I am dissatisfied with Vista Ultimate 64 bit edition.

The case has a 500W power supply. Processor will draw 12A max
from 12V2. 12V1 provides the rest of the power. The HD3870 is
82 watts from 12V1, or 6.8A. The hard drive, optical and
fans, won't put a dent in the remaining 12V1. So the power
supply should be fine.

+3.3V @ 24A, +5V @ 24A, +12V1 @ 17A, +12V2 @ 17A, -12V @ 0.8A, +5VSB @
2.5A

http://www.antec.com/pdf/manuals/SonataIII_500_EN_manual.pdf

I've been very happy with Antec's Sonata products. Their reputation for
quiet is well-earned.

EA500
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371007

I would check the feature set of the sound card drivers. If
you're planning on gaming, the sound card may not support
EAX. That is just a suspicion I have. To me, M-Audio means
"music or recording", and for other applications, you
may want to read their product details carefully. (The
manual mentions ASIO and WDM in the drivers. I'd guess
WDM gives the Windows sound through your speakers. But
gaming would use things like EAX or OpenAL, depending
on OS choice.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_Stream_Input/Output (ASIO)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenAL (OpenAL)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_audio_extensions (EAX)

Great advice, Paul. I have considered going with the m-audio and an audigy
card, but I am not sure if I can use both. Would it be as simple as changing
the default audio card in Windows when needed? I will also be purchasing a
Presonus inspire preamp and an m-audio nova microphone to use with the card
for recording vocals to my songs. But, I also like the EAX features I've
enjoyed with my audigy cards. I'll check the m-audio features as you
recommended.

Thanks for the responding and the great comments!

Cheers,
Jolly Rogers

 

[david]

So, a mix of work and play. My current computer is a Dell Dimension 8250
that I purchased new in March 2003. It still works quite well, but the
power supply fan is noisy. I still haven't ruled out replacing the power
supply and living with the Dimension until very large SSDs are released.

Careful, Dell used to install power supplies with non-standard
motherboard connectors. I'm not sure when or if they quit doing that.

 

[Jolly Rogers]

Careful, Dell used to install power supplies with non-standard
motherboard connectors. I'm not sure when or if they quit doing that.

Thanks, David.

Jolly Rogers

 

[Dave]

Greetings all...

I am building a new PC soon. I built one for my wife last year and it turned
out fine.

I have assembled the list of components below. Feel free to offer opinions
or advice. I am fairly sure these will all function together, but if you see
anything I missed or have an opinion, please share your experiences and
knowledge.

I feel like waiting for a 1 TB SSD to come out someday (and drop in price),
rather than building a machine now with a SATA hard drive, but if I keep
waiting for the "next level" to emerge, I will never act and build a new
machine. :-/

...anyway, here's my list of stuff I am considering.

hard drive - Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD5000AAKS 500 GB Internal SATA
Hard Drive: $64.80
motherboard - Intel DX58SO Core i7 Motherboard - Nehalem Socket 1366:
$229.99
processor - Intel i7 core 2 920: $297.22
memory - SAMSUNG 4GB 2x 2GB DDR3 PC3-8500 1066 SONY VAIO Z570: $98.00
case / power supply - Sonata III Quiet Super Mini with 500w power supply:
$98.53
audio card - M-Audio Audiophile 192 Sound card - 192 kHz - 24-bit: $119.99
video card - Sapphire 100225L ATI Radeon HD 3870: $111.97
monitor - KDS K-2626MDHWB 26" WideScreen LCD 1920 x 1200 $339.00
DVD/CD-RW combo - Lite-On DH-52C2S: $21.90
USB keyboard/mouse - Logitech Internet 350 USB Keyboard & RX300 Optical
Mouse Combo: $14.59

total price: $1,395.99

Comments and advice appreciated.

Cheers,
Jolly Rogers

Jolly - Aside from the memory situation someone else mentioned, I think you
will want to re-think your power supply. A 500W might handle that rig, but
it will likely be running at 60% or more of rated maximum capacity. I would
feel quite queezy about running any power supply that hard. I wouldn't
expect it to hold up well over the long run. A more appropriate size for
that hardware would be 650W, or maybe a tad more. And if you buy an Antec
brand power supply, you will want an Earthwatts or Signature series. I
haven't looked at your specific case, but hope it takes a standard ATX size
power supply. Because I really do believe (IMHO) that you need to upgrade
that power supply. Although, the one you chose probably will work. I
wouldn't use it, though. No way. -Dave

 

[Jolly Rogers]

Jolly - Aside from the memory situation someone else mentioned, I think
you
will want to re-think your power supply. A 500W might handle that rig,
but
it will likely be running at 60% or more of rated maximum capacity. I
would
feel quite queezy about running any power supply that hard. I wouldn't
expect it to hold up well over the long run. A more appropriate size for
that hardware would be 650W, or maybe a tad more. And if you buy an Antec
brand power supply, you will want an Earthwatts or Signature series. I
haven't looked at your specific case, but hope it takes a standard ATX
size
power supply. Because I really do believe (IMHO) that you need to upgrade
that power supply. Although, the one you chose probably will work. I
wouldn't use it, though. No way. -Dave

This is why I am glad I always flesh my ideas out here with people like you.
I've written to Antec to request info about upgrading the power supply in
the Sonata III.

Thanks much, Dave.

Cheers,
Jolly Rogers

 

[westom1]

Careful, Dell used to install power supplies with non-standard
motherboard connectors. I'm not sure when or if they quit doing that.

Most everyone did that. Many computer manufacturers sold a standard
ATX computer and also sold the cheapest thing that could be made. The
cheap computer was intended for no upgrades or repair, often using non-
standard power supplies, to be marketed to those who only buy on
price.

Dell has always sold computers with standard ATX power supplies.
However rumors that Dell (or others) use non-standard supplies lives
on. All computer manufacturers did that at sometime with some
computers.

 

[david]

Dell has always sold computers with standard ATX power supplies.
However rumors that Dell (or others) use non-standard supplies lives on.
All computer manufacturers did that at sometime with some computers.

Both of my circa-2000 Dimension 4100's have non-standard power pinouts on
the motherboards.

 

[Dave]

Both of my circa-2000 Dimension 4100's have non-standard power pinouts on
the motherboards.

As late as 2006, I can confirm that some Dells had non-standard power
supplies (not just pinouts different, but physical form factor was NOTHING
like ATX standard) -Dave

 

[david]

As late as 2006, I can confirm that some Dells had non-standard power
supplies (not just pinouts different, but physical form factor was
NOTHING like ATX standard) -Dave

Yup, like I thought. Tom is all wet, as usual.

 

[westom1]

Yup, like I thought.  Tom is all wet, as usual.

Why do both replies (yours and his) completely agree with what I
posted? Wet is your reply that ignore what was posted.

 

[david]

Why do both replies (yours and his) completely agree with what I
posted? Wet is your reply that ignore what was posted.

Here's what you posted, since you can't seem to remember it:

Dell has always sold computers with standard ATX power supplies.
However rumors that Dell (or others) use non-standard supplies lives
on.

It's not a rumor, it's a fact. Dell has *not* always sold computers with
standard ATX power supplies.

Thus, you are wrong, again.

 

[westom1]

It's not a rumor, it's a fact.  Dell has *not* always sold computers with
standard ATX power supplies.

Wrong. There have always been some Dell computers that met ATX
standards.

 

[Jolly Rogers]

Jolly - Aside from the memory situation someone else mentioned, I think
you
will want to re-think your power supply. A 500W might handle that rig,
but
it will likely be running at 60% or more of rated maximum capacity. I
would
feel quite queezy about running any power supply that hard. I wouldn't
expect it to hold up well over the long run. A more appropriate size for
that hardware would be 650W, or maybe a tad more. And if you buy an Antec
brand power supply, you will want an Earthwatts or Signature series. I
haven't looked at your specific case, but hope it takes a standard ATX
size
power supply. Because I really do believe (IMHO) that you need to upgrade
that power supply. Although, the one you chose probably will work. I
wouldn't use it, though. No way. -Dave

As a followup, I checked with Antec on the Sonata III. Here was their
response.

We do not offer an upgarde service. If you were to purchase any of
the Antec 650 watt power supplies, they would fit in the Sonata III.
Thank you for contacting Antec.

I'm having a hard time finding a Sonata III without a power supply for less
than one with a power supply. I'm really sold on Antec products, so I may
buy the Sonata III with a 500w power supply and an additional 650 watt power
supply seperately, and then hock the 500w ps on ebay.

Cheers,
Jolly Rogers

 

[Dave]

As a followup, I checked with Antec on the Sonata III. Here was their
response.


I'm having a hard time finding a Sonata III without a power supply for less
than one with a power supply. I'm really sold on Antec products, so I may
buy the Sonata III with a 500w power supply and an additional 650 watt power
supply seperately, and then hock the 500w ps on ebay.

Cheers,
Jolly Rogers

If you like the Sonata III (I just looked it up), you should consider an
Antec Three Hundred:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129042
Fifty bucks sure looks like a steal on a nice case like that, then you could
add any power supply you want.

There are other decent cases also, fairly cheap. How about A Foxconn? Very
high quality, and you could toss the 350W:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811153086

NZXT is another brand that is equal to (or exceeding) antec quality, and you
will find several models for less money than the Sonata III.

BUT, if you do buy a Sonata III with a 500W power supply, I'd suggest you
keep the 500W as a spare. I wouldn't use it for long-term use. But it's
always good to have a spare power supply on hand. In the unlikely event
that your 650W power supply craps out, you could toss the 500W in and limp
along on that until your replacement is delivered. -Dave

 

[Jolly Rogers]

If you like the Sonata III (I just looked it up), you should consider an
Antec Three Hundred:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129042
Fifty bucks sure looks like a steal on a nice case like that, then you
could
add any power supply you want.

There are other decent cases also, fairly cheap. How about A Foxconn?
Very
high quality, and you could toss the 350W:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811153086

NZXT is another brand that is equal to (or exceeding) antec quality, and
you
will find several models for less money than the Sonata III.

BUT, if you do buy a Sonata III with a 500W power supply, I'd suggest you
keep the 500W as a spare. I wouldn't use it for long-term use. But it's
always good to have a spare power supply on hand. In the unlikely event
that your 650W power supply craps out, you could toss the 500W in and limp
along on that until your replacement is delivered. -Dave

It looks like a good case, but my main love of the Sonata is the quiet
factor. Almost nothing trumps peace and quiet. ;-)

I even installed acoustive noise reduction siding in my desk's PC cabinet to
make it even quieter; door and all.

 

[westom1]

I'm having a hard time finding a Sonata III without a power supply for less
than one with a power supply. I'm really sold on Antec products, so I may
buy the Sonata III with a 500w power supply and an additional 650 watt power
supply seperately, and then hock the 500w ps on ebay.

Learn from numbers. Never saw a single PC demand even 200 watts.
Why do so many 'believe' a 500 watt supply is needed? Numerous
reasons based in popular myth, 'defective by design' supplies that got
'fixed' by installed a larger wattage supply, and myths that brand
name computers have undersized supplies. A Dell or HP supply rated
at 350 watts is equivalent to a clone supply rated at 500 watts. Did
either lie? Of course not. Measure using relevant numbers verses
less relevant and larger number. Both number in watts but measure
different things.

Chances are your supply is more than sufficient. Two ways to
determine. First, ignore watts. Only relevant numbers are amperes
for each voltage. Second, even an undersized supply can boot a
computer. But a multimeter and a 30 second measurements can define a
power supply as more than sufficient or identify that undersized
supply. Simply boot a machine with a smaller supply, and perform the
procedure. If all numbers remain in spec, then each listed current is
sufficient for that whole system. Now you have a useful number.

Is a 500 watt supply running too hard? Nonsense. First, a fully
loaded switching supply may be under less stress than a partially
loaded supply. Second, anybody can measure those numbers even with a
$20 Kil-a-Watt. However the many who recommend 500 and 600 watts
supplies do not perform simple measurements - get numbers.

I have never seen a PC draw even 200 watts. Therefore responsible
computer manufacturers oversize - install 250 and 350 watt supplies in
their systems - more than sufficient. Clone power supplies that are
equivalent are often rated at 360 and 500 watts. Ball park numbers
that confirm a 600 watt supply is so unnecessary.

When designing a system, a builder ignores the watts number, worries
about current (amperes) for each voltage (hypothesis) AND confirming
that those numbers are more than sufficient using a 30 second test and
a multimeter (experimental confirmation). Both hypothesis and
experimental derived numbers are necessary to actually know.

Don't speculate. Review current numbers for each voltage AND
confirm those numbers are more than sufficient with a multimeter.