New comp build, Advice needed!!

[David Barkham]

Hellp people, i've found myself with a little windfall and i've decided to
upgrade my 2800XP computer and go the whole hog and make the jump to
PCI-Express and 64 bit computing.
What i'm after is advice on what to buy. I already have a SATA drive that i
will be using but i need :-
A Case (Stylish, Quiet, Silver/alluminium and able to fit a standard ATX
sized board)
A Socket 939 mobo (PCI-Express)
A Socket 939 CPU
A high end G/Card....ATI or Nvidia (willing to spend upwards of £300 for
this as long as the project comes in budget)

These would have a maximum budget of £750 so it's always going to be a
compromise (yes, we'd all like one of those AMD4000+ chips but what you
gonna do...)

I'm particulary intrested in people who have expreience of the
mobo/cpu/gcard combination and how it's working out for you?

Thx in advance for your help guys

Moggy aka Dave Barkham

 

[Cuzman]

David Barkham wrote:

" These would have a maximum budget of £750 so it's always going to be
a compromise (yes, we'd all like one of those AMD4000+ chips but what
you gonna do...) "


Do you only need that which you stated?

- Case
- Motherboard
- CPU
- Graphics card

....or do you need a PSU and RAM as well?


If you only need the contents you stated, then the following might
suffice. In time, you can add another identical graphics card when just
the one is no longer fast enough:

- Lian-Li PC60 http://tinyurl.com/7geed £86.73
- Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe http://tinyurl.com/a2uca £106.77
- AMD Athlon 64 3800+ Newcastle http://tinyurl.com/doo9q £239.99
- Asus GeForce 6800GT 256MB PCI-E http://tinyurl.com/b3z9n £289.91
TOTAL: £723.40 (+ P&P)


If you also also need a PSU, then perhaps this will do:

- Lian-Li PC60 http://tinyurl.com/7geed £86.73
- Enermax EG495AX-VE(W) 485W http://tinyurl.com/a7c2y £69.09
- AMD Athlon 64 3800+ Newcastle http://tinyurl.com/doo9q £239.99
- Asus A8V-E Deluxe http://tinyurl.com/8hsbx £79.59
- Asus Radeon X800XL 256MB PCI-E http://tinyurl.com/abugt £244.20
TOTAL: £719.60 (+ P&P)


If you need both a PSU and RAM too, then perhaps this:

- Lian-Li PC60 http://tinyurl.com/7geed £86.73
- Enermax EG495AX-VE(W) 485W http://tinyurl.com/a7c2y £69.09
- AMD Athlon 64 3500+ Winchester http://tinyurl.com/dl2uu £179.62
- Asus A8N-E http://tinyurl.com/ch59l £72.23
- Corsair TWINX1024-3200C2 http://tinyurl.com/9caq7 £113.92
- Asus GeForce 6800GT 128MB PCI-E http://tinyurl.com/ax2mu £219.76
TOTAL: £741.35 (+ P&P)


....or maybe something like this:

- Lian-Li PC60 http://tinyurl.com/7geed £86.73
- Enermax EG495AX-VE(W) 485W http://tinyurl.com/a7c2y £69.09
- AMD Athlon 64 3800+ Newcastle http://tinyurl.com/doo9q £239.99
- Asus A8V-E Deluxe http://tinyurl.com/8hsbx £79.59
- Corsair TWINX1024-3200C2 http://tinyurl.com/9caq7 £113.92
- Asus GeForce 6600GT 128MB PCI-E http://tinyurl.com/ay36c £126.91
TOTAL: £716.23 (+ P&P)


Apart from the case and RAM, all the above prices are from
http://www.techfever.co.uk . At the moment they are offering free P&P
on all orders over £100.

 

[MyName]

All good questions Cuzman. David, do you have a 24 PIN power supply?
Most new mobos are looking for it. If not I recommend the 485W
Enermax EG495AX-VE. I've read several good reviews about it and I like
its feature set.
http://www.enermax.com.tw/products_page.php?Tid=1&gon=264&Gid=18&Gid2=46
.. Enermax also has a 600W PS but we're talk budget here and I think
485W will do just fine. Now you can purchase a 20 to 24 PIN adapter
but I read a few blogs that did not have a happy ending using the
adapter. I have always recommend starting with a solid PS. It will
eliminate any weird restart, failed boot-ups, lock-ups, and BSOD
problems.

 

[Strings]

Start with a good foundation and that would be a good PS and the one
recommended is excellent.
There is a fellow who posts here and recommends everyone use a $18 cheap PS
DON'T not take that advice. I wonder if he is a representative of the cheap
PS industry.

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article28-page1.html
http://www.amdboard.com/psu.html
http://www4.tomshardware.com/column/20011012/index.html
http://www.tomshardware.com/howto/20041223/index.html
http://www.tomshardware.com/howto/20040122/index.html

 

[Wes Newell]

Start with a good foundation and that would be a good PS and the one
recommended is excellent.

Good advice as long as one remembers good doesn't always mean it has to be
expensive.

There is a fellow who posts here and recommends everyone use a $18 cheap
PS DON'T not take that advice. I wonder if he is a representative of the
cheap PS industry.

No, I represent my own personal experience of 50+ years of buying
experience, and over 10 years of buying serval hundred PSU's. And if one
wants to spend $100 for a PSU when an $18 PSU will work just as good, they
are welcome to do that too. But suggesting that one needs to spend $100 or
even $50 for a decent PSU is just plain BS. For the record, the longest
lasting cheap PSU I can confirm is in a Novell server that's been running
24/7 since I replaced the defective name brand PSU with a generic one in
1995. I'd suggest one spend the monet they save buying a cheap psu
purchasing a cheap ups if you don't already have one. I place for more
importance on good incoming power.

 

[Strings]

As always you see things not there, I suggested a good quality power supply
and provided a 4 links for investigation and education into may different
brands and the reasons the cheep supplies should be avoided.
Someone else recommended a Enermax 485w (I have one) I said it was a
excellent recommendation I did not say that is what he should buy, I did
however suggest what not to buy $18 JUNK
If your power supply recommendation was a car it would cost $3000 new (not
much) and be a golf cart with cardboard car chaise to hide the 400HP motor
(laugh). All power supplies come from low wage countries so there is labor
advantage. The wires on the junk are extra thin and AC noise is normal on
many of those generic PS I have tested many on oscilloscope.
I have two electronics degrees and 20 years in the repair business for a
major company and there is a reason top manufacture do not use $18 power
supplies and it should not take a high IQ to understand why CRAP is CRAP.
I now manage a shop and when I took over they sold and used those $18 false
rated junk. We spent too may hours diagnosing phantom problems so I
instituted a NO cheep PS policy and now our return rate once over 25% is now
less than .5% we only carry Enermax Antec and other top 10 brands.
Its one thing for you to use that junk but to recommended with self expert
testimony is like those ads for weight loss pills or fake viagra but you
forget to post the "Results Not Typical" warning.
I always post at least 4 of the hundreds of links describing all someone
needs to pick a good PS.
Do you have at least 4 independent commercial grade links that describe in
detail how those $18 are as good as similar rated top 10 brands ??

 

[Wes Newell]

As always you see things not there, I suggested a good quality power supply
and provided a 4 links for investigation and education into may different
brands and the reasons the cheep supplies should be avoided.
Someone else recommended a Enermax 485w (I have one) I said it was a
excellent recommendation I did not say that is what he should buy, I did
however suggest what not to buy $18 JUNK

So you know this for a fact? IOW's you've purchased the PSU in question,
examined it and have found it to be junk? I think not. Now what does that
say for your opinion on this particular PSU.

All power supplies come from low wage countries so there is labor
advantage. The wires on the junk are extra thin and AC noise is normal
on many of those generic PS I have tested many on oscilloscope.

You will find AC noise on every PSU made, including the name brand ones.
If you think otherwise, you're fooling yourself.

I have two electronics degrees and 20 years in the repair business for a major
company and there is a reason top manufacture do not use $18 power
supplies and it should not take a high IQ to understand why CRAP is
CRAP.

Well, I'm a HS dropout with a GED. So what? I've met more than a few well
educated idiots. Not to put you in this catagory. Just making a point. I
have been working with electronics since the 60's, but without knowing me
personally and/or professionally that doesn't mean crap either.

I now manage a shop and when I took over they sold and used those $18
false rated junk.

Well, it's not my problem they didn't research what they bought.

We spent too may hours diagnosing phantom problems so
I instituted a NO cheep PS policy and now our return rate once over 25%
is now less than .5%

You've said this before, They must have really been buying junk.

Do you have at least 4 independent commercial grade links that
describe in detail how those $18 are as good as similar rated top 10
brands ??

Nope, and haven't looked for any. And don't plan to. like any
recommendation, people can take them or leave them. Another thing I
ahven't had is anyone that's bought one come back and complain to me about
it. I have had a few people thank me though.

 

[Strings]

You forgot once more the warning.!!! "Results Not Typical" I did not think
you could find any commercial quality sites propping up your fixation to
recommend only $18 PS posing as top grade. You are correct there is a
difference between education and intelligence BUT one without the other
leads to false beliefs and recommendations. But you did once again provide
self affirming antidotes for your $18 supplies.( "Results Not Typical") I
know a friend of a friend who it is rumored to have a sister who's boyfriend
had a milkman who used a $18 power supply and the 60 year no degree tech
said they were as equal to an Enermax as a Ford Granada with its Corinthian
leather is equal to a Mercedes (laugh). Again its one thing for you to use
them $18 junkerds yourself but if you were the professional you espouse to
be you do what's right for your client and readers by recommend quality
first and those $18 PS only as a last the last resort not first choice.

We agree to disagree,

 

[MyName]

David,

I'm in the process of building a PC too except I do not have a
windfall to work from. The best bang for your buck is a Dell but it is
not a performance machine. It's a good/okay PC at a very low price
point.

My build goal is to get the best bang for the buck for a very good
performance PC., (note not the absolute best in performance PC $$$).
At this point in time I have chose the following:

CASE: Black Cool looking mid Tower @ $42 which came with an "650W
Extremo Power Supply". Yea right, 650 Watts for 2 minutes before it
bursts into flames and burns my house down.

POWER SUPPLY: Enermax EG495AX-VE.,(485W PS).

CD/DVD BURNER: In my humble opinion CD burners are going the way of
the floppy drive. Why? Because DVD burners can perform both tasks so
why have one that can only burn CDs and not DVDs? Yea CD burners can
cook at 52x but that only happens at very end of the CD. So what are
we talking about in the long run? A few less seconds. Big deal. I
purchased a LG GSA-4163B, Great reviews and has DVD-RAM.

CPU COOLER: I went over the top here and I'm not suggesting this is
for you. I purchased an Evercool WC-202 water cooler. It cost me about
$90. The whole system is housed inside the PC. It also designed to
cool your video card and can be very quiet. What I like about it is
when the processor heats up the fans will spin fast to cool it down.
The AMD 64 Venice is supposed to run fairly cool so maybe the thermal
sensor needs to be on the Graphic Processor? I need to check this out.


- FUTURE EQUIPEMENT -

CPU: 3000 AMD 64 Venice. You can over clock this puppy to the limits
of your mobo and memory. Buy low end memory and your leaving you CPU
power behind.

MOBO: I am looking at a MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum with has an excellent
feature set but the memory voltage only goes to 2.85v where others can
do 3 & 4 volts. Remember the Venice will be limited by the memory
speed. We may want more voltage so to increase the memory speed. I'm
also looking at DFI which has the voltage but lacks in features. Yea I
looked a ASUS, ABIT, and others but right now I'm leaning towards the
MSI.
My two cents about SLI.. If money is not a problem and you're a gamer
then SLI is for you. From my understanding SLI is looking for matching
SLI capable video cards. Now lets think about this, "buying two of the
same video cards". This is not for me. I'm not going to take my money
and not buy a second similar card but rather purchase a newer faster
video card with more features. Just think on this one.
Another item to conceder. Many manufactures offer their best
stuff on their SLI mobos opposed to their non SLI mobos. Example:
better integrated sound and RAID. Maybe it is better to purchase an
SLI mobo for the features and not use SLI. Hmm….

VIDEO CARD - Most defiantly it needs to be PCIx. The ATI-800 XL at
$250 looks very tempting.

MEMORY- I'm still working on this one. It has to be at least 1G.
Better then PC3200 and it has to OC like a MF. Its power requirements
need to meet what the mobo can put out.

LAST THOUGHT. So when you are done and if you done it right; you will
have a PC that will be the equivalent of a very good AMD 64 FX
machine. That is right - FX! With room for both growth and
upgradeability. Would you build all this and RISK it all with a $18
PS? Hell No…