Need Help Finding a Suitable Printer

[Andrew]

I've had it with my Epson. I spent more on new
tanks trying to unclog this monster than I did on
the printer itself which was not that cheap. I
really hated cleaning up the ink running out the
bottom of the printer.

I'm looking for an inkjet printer that will print
directly to CDs as well as the usual paper media.
I'd prefer to be able to effectively use a
constant ink system or generic cartridges. Print
quality is not a real issue I am mainly concerned
with the following:

Reliability. Little to no clogged jets as the
printer will be used infrequently.
Cheap ink use. When the printer is in use it will
be printing a lot of large solids and will consume
a lot of ink.

Can someone point me in the right direction?

Thanks,
Andrew

P.S. The person who provides me the with the best
info gets first crack at watching me destroy the
old Epson "Office Space" style.

 

[measekite]

I've had it with my Epson. I spent more on new tanks trying to unclog
this monster than I did on the printer itself which was not that
cheap. I really hated cleaning up the ink running out the bottom of
the printer.

I'm looking for an inkjet printer that will print directly to CDs as
well as the usual paper media. I'd prefer to be able to effectively
use a constant ink system or

generic cartridges.

Why do you think you had problems. Use Epson ink and you should not
have these problems.

Print quality is not a real issue I am mainly concerned with the
following:

Reliability. Little to no clogged jets as the printer will be used
infrequently.

Printers use infrequently should definitely use only OEM ink. The crap
ink will clog your printheads and cause the problems you have.

Cheap ink use. When the printer is in use it will be printing a lot of
large solids and will consume a lot of ink.

Can someone point me in the right direction?

Thanks,
Andrew

P.S. The person who provides me the with the best info gets first
crack at watching me destroy the old Epson "Office Space" style.

Who cares.

 

[phineaspaine]

I've had it with my Epson. I spent more on new
tanks trying to unclog this monster than I did on
the printer itself which was not that cheap. I
really hated cleaning up the ink running out the
bottom of the printer.

I'm looking for an inkjet printer that will print
directly to CDs as well as the usual paper media.
I'd prefer to be able to effectively use a
constant ink system or generic cartridges. Print
quality is not a real issue I am mainly concerned
with the following:

Reliability. Little to no clogged jets as the
printer will be used infrequently.
Cheap ink use. When the printer is in use it will
be printing a lot of large solids and will consume
a lot of ink.

Can someone point me in the right direction?

Thanks,
Andrew

P.S. The person who provides me the with the best
info gets first crack at watching me destroy the
old Epson "Office Space" style.

Hi Andrew:

Just disregard Measekite. He likes to troll around and spout off
about using only OEM inks, and bad-mouthing anyone who dares
contradict him. Just wait, he'll likely respond with some type of
tirade...

I'm going to try to keep this simple. There are essentially two type
of ink used in inkjets, pigment-based and dye-based.

Pigment-based inks contain microscopic, solid chunks of colour
suspended in a solvent. When the printer lays down the ink, the
solvent dries, leaving the colour behind. Since solids and solvents
are involved, when ink is left to dry in the jets over a period of
non--use, it can render the heads clogged, since the solvent exposed
to the air at the nozzle evaporates, leaving solids behind to "bulk-
up" in the jet. Sometimes an attempt to "flush" out the clog works...
sometimes not. Suffice it to say that pigment-based printers only
perform well when used constantly, or often (i.e. daily).

Dye-based printer ink is exactly that... liquid dye mixed in with a
solvent. During periods of non-use, the solvent will evaporate,
leaving the dye to thicken and clog up a jet. However, they're much
easier to "flush" out than pigment-based, since there are no solids to
flush. Flushing fresh ink, and therefore fresh solvent, through the
jet will usually re-liquify the dye in the jet, and usually you can
get the jet working again.

In both cases, "flushing" is accomplished by running the head cleaning
cycle, which just dumps ink through the jets into the waste inkpad in
the bottom of the printer.

I've had no clogged jets with dye-based inkjets (almost all Canons),
as opposed to frequently clogged jets with pigment-based inkjets (most
Epsons, though they make dye-based inkjets as well). It hasn't made a
whit of difference whether I've used OEM cartridges, or quality third-
party cartridges.... no difference at all.

So my recommendation is that you stick with a dye-based inkjet if you
don't use your printer on a daily basis. Some older Canon printers
(i.e. the IP3000 / IP4000 / IP5000 / IP6000D series or older) can
print on CD's if modified. Note that non-North-American versions of
these printers have CD-printing enabled by default. It's not
difficult to modify the North American versions... (see
http://pixma-faq.periastron.com/). CD trays for these printers are
commonly available on eBay. I've got an IP5000 modified per this
site, and with the addition of the rollers and CD Tray, prints
beautifully on printable CDs. Good quality 3rd-party ink is available
as well. I get mine from this source (www.idiya-solutions.com), and
it works great, as I've never had a clog after 3 years of printing
with it.... and it's cheap! I've even got some 8x10 glossies under
glass in a frame that show no signs of fading over 3 years. Mind you,
if they ever do, I'll just reprint another one.

Newer Canon printers (IP4200/5200 and up) use the newer, chipped
cartridges, and some even newer North American models (IP4300 / 5300)
can print on CD/DVDs out of the box. Cheaper 3rd-party cartridges are
available, but be forewarned, it requires disabling the ink level
monitoring system and will void any warranty. You must manually
monitor the ink level, and take care you don't run out of any one
colour, since it will cause the jets to overheat (the ink doubly
serves to "cool" the jet, since the printer works by heating the jet,
causing the ink in the jet to expand and shoot out onto the media).

Just my opinion...
Phineas

 

[Andrew]

Hi Andrew:

Just disregard Measekite. He likes to troll around and spout off
about using only OEM inks, and bad-mouthing anyone who dares
contradict him. Just wait, he'll likely respond with some type of
tirade...

I'm going to try to keep this simple. There are essentially two type
of ink used in inkjets, pigment-based and dye-based.

Pigment-based inks contain microscopic, solid chunks of colour
suspended in a solvent. When the printer lays down the ink, the
solvent dries, leaving the colour behind. Since solids and solvents
are involved, when ink is left to dry in the jets over a period of
non--use, it can render the heads clogged, since the solvent exposed
to the air at the nozzle evaporates, leaving solids behind to "bulk-
up" in the jet. Sometimes an attempt to "flush" out the clog works...
sometimes not. Suffice it to say that pigment-based printers only
perform well when used constantly, or often (i.e. daily).

Dye-based printer ink is exactly that... liquid dye mixed in with a
solvent. During periods of non-use, the solvent will evaporate,
leaving the dye to thicken and clog up a jet. However, they're much
easier to "flush" out than pigment-based, since there are no solids to
flush. Flushing fresh ink, and therefore fresh solvent, through the
jet will usually re-liquify the dye in the jet, and usually you can
get the jet working again.

In both cases, "flushing" is accomplished by running the head cleaning
cycle, which just dumps ink through the jets into the waste inkpad in
the bottom of the printer.

I've had no clogged jets with dye-based inkjets (almost all Canons),
as opposed to frequently clogged jets with pigment-based inkjets (most
Epsons, though they make dye-based inkjets as well). It hasn't made a
whit of difference whether I've used OEM cartridges, or quality third-
party cartridges.... no difference at all.

So my recommendation is that you stick with a dye-based inkjet if you
don't use your printer on a daily basis. Some older Canon printers
(i.e. the IP3000 / IP4000 / IP5000 / IP6000D series or older) can
print on CD's if modified. Note that non-North-American versions of
these printers have CD-printing enabled by default. It's not
difficult to modify the North American versions... (see
http://pixma-faq.periastron.com/). CD trays for these printers are
commonly available on eBay. I've got an IP5000 modified per this
site, and with the addition of the rollers and CD Tray, prints
beautifully on printable CDs. Good quality 3rd-party ink is available
as well. I get mine from this source (www.idiya-solutions.com), and
it works great, as I've never had a clog after 3 years of printing
with it.... and it's cheap! I've even got some 8x10 glossies under
glass in a frame that show no signs of fading over 3 years. Mind you,
if they ever do, I'll just reprint another one.

Newer Canon printers (IP4200/5200 and up) use the newer, chipped
cartridges, and some even newer North American models (IP4300 / 5300)
can print on CD/DVDs out of the box. Cheaper 3rd-party cartridges are
available, but be forewarned, it requires disabling the ink level
monitoring system and will void any warranty. You must manually
monitor the ink level, and take care you don't run out of any one
colour, since it will cause the jets to overheat (the ink doubly
serves to "cool" the jet, since the printer works by heating the jet,
causing the ink in the jet to expand and shoot out onto the media).

Just my opinion...
Phineas

Thanks for the informative and concise response. I
was looking at the Canons but was a bit confused
by the European and NA models. You cleared that up
nicely.

In my day job I deal with inks on a regular basis
- several hundred kilos per day. I deal with the
ink drying issues with dye and pigment based inks
on a large scale. It looks like a Canon model is
in my future based on the ink formulation.

As for the net kook... Every group has one and
they stand out quite well, vigorously demanding to
be ignored. I tend to do just that.

Thanks again.
Andrew

 

[Frank]

measekite wrote:

....nothing of any importance.
Frank

 

[Steve Dell]

You might try getting a colo(u)r laser printer instead.

 

[Arthur Entlich]

You didn't mention which model Epson you are having problems with, which
would have been somewhat helpful, because the Epson line has quite a bit
of variability in reliability.

Also, if I understand correctly, you had problems with the waste ink
pads leaking out the bottom. Obviously, a lot of cleaning cycles puts a
lot of ink down into those pads, but know that all moderately priced
inkjet printers store the waste ink in pads of some type.

Again, not knowing which model was involved it is hard to know what kind
of budget you have in mind for a new printer, how fast the printer need,
and what quantities of CD printing you can foresee.

Generally, the more you pay for the printer, the less costly the
replacement inks are, and older printers have a greater chance of there
being bulk inks and inking systems for.

Art

 

[Andrew]

My printer is the Epson RX300.

Since we don't print often this unit has given us
trouble since it was fairly new. I knew that the
constant flushing would eventually cause leaks. If
I could keep the jets from drying out I would have
modified the printer to hold more waste ink.

I would prefer to buy another printer that is less
prone to this problem. As Steve Dell suggested I
was considering a colour laser printer. I assume
though, that the price of ink would be even higher
than an inkjet.

Ah well. There's no rush. I'm still looking at the
Canons you mentioned.

Thanks again,
Andrew

 

[TJ]

My printer is the Epson RX300.

Since we don't print often this unit has given us trouble since it was
fairly new. I knew that the constant flushing would eventually cause
leaks. If I could keep the jets from drying out I would have modified
the printer to hold more waste ink.

I would prefer to buy another printer that is less prone to this
problem. As Steve Dell suggested I was considering a colour laser
printer. I assume though, that the price of ink would be even higher
than an inkjet.

Ah well. There's no rush. I'm still looking at the Canons you mentioned.

Thanks again,
Andrew

In general, the per page costs of operating a laser printer are lower
than that of an inkjet, especially if you only use OEM ink in the
inkjet. The toner cartridges cost more, but they last longer. Laser
printers also cost more than inkjet printers when it comes to the
original purchase price. One more thing - While I don't have any
personal experience with them, I've often seen posts in this newsgroup
that say that in general laser printers are not as good as inkjets at
printing photos.

So your selection comes down to more than how often you use your printer
- it also depends on what you use it for.

TJ

 

[measekite]

Here is your decision making question


If I print photos then
get Canon IP4500
otherwise
get a laser

Since you do not print much I would stick with whatever ink the printer mfg recommends.  In the long run it is cheaper even though you spend more per unit than the crap.

Andrew wrote: My printer is the Epson RX300.

Since we don't print often this unit has given us trouble since it was fairly new. I knew that the constant flushing would eventually cause leaks. If I could keep the jets from drying out I would have modified the printer to hold more waste ink.

I would prefer to buy another printer that is less prone to this problem. As Steve Dell suggested I was considering a colour laser printer. I assume though, that the price of ink would be even higher than an inkjet.

Ah well. There's no rush. I'm still looking at the  Canons you mentioned.

Thanks again,
Andrew


Arthur Entlich wrote:
You didn't mention which model Epson you are having problems with, which would have been somewhat helpful, because the Epson line has quite a bit of variability in reliability.

Also, if I understand correctly, you had problems with the waste ink pads leaking out the bottom.  Obviously, a lot of cleaning cycles puts a lot of ink down into those pads, but know that all moderately priced inkjet printers store the waste ink in pads of some type.

Again, not knowing which model was involved it is hard to know what kind of budget you have in mind for a new printer, how fast the printer need, and what quantities of CD printing you can foresee.

Generally, the more you pay for the printer, the less costly the replacement inks are, and older printers have a greater chance of there being bulk inks and inking systems for.

Art




Andrew wrote:
I've had it with my Epson. I spent more on new tanks trying to unclog this monster than I did on the printer itself which was not that cheap. I really hated cleaning up the ink running out the bottom of the printer.

I'm looking for an inkjet printer that will print directly to CDs as well as the usual paper media. I'd prefer to be able to effectively use a constant ink system or generic cartridges. Print quality is not a real issue I am mainly concerned with the following:

Reliability. Little to no clogged jets as the printer will be used infrequently.
Cheap ink use. When the printer is in use it will be printing a lot of large solids and will consume a lot of ink.

Can someone point me in the right direction?

Thanks,
Andrew

P.S. The person who provides me the with the best info gets first crack at watching me destroy the old Epson "Office Space" style.

 

[Frank]

measekite wrote:

....SPAM!!!
Give it up bozo.
Frank

 

[Arthur Entlich]

The R300 is a mid-level printer with dye colorant inks, so it should be
less clog prone than the Durabrite C and CX series printers which use a
pigment fast drying ink.

But, you are correct that inkjet printers can tend to clog if left
unused for a long time. The major advantage of laser is that the toner
in the cartridge pretty much lasts indefinitely in terms of shelf life.

Color lasers are improving all the time and the cost of acquisition has
dropped quite a bit, but they get you on the consumables (which can vary
from cartridges containing the drum and such to separate drums, toner
cartridges, fuser oil and wipers, or transfer belts, etc. The designs
differ quite a bit.

Most laser printers, color or monochrome offer starter cartridges which
contain one half to one third the toner that the replacement cartridges
do. That can make them costly to run, especially if you are printing
graphics or large photo images with high toner coverage.

If you do decide to look into color laser, look at several models within
a brand, because, for instance, HP has two models, the economy model (I
think it is called the 1600) is about $100 cheaper, but it has starter
cartridges. The other model (the 2600) for only about $100 more has
complete full cartridges, a higher duty cycles, and a ethernet card. If
you can afford the difference, the value is much better for the higher
capacity cartridge printer, since it supplies the equivalent of two
extra toner cartridges of toner worth over $200 if bought as HP cartridges.

Art

 

[measekite]

In general, the per page costs of operating a laser printer are lower
than that of an inkjet, especially if you only use OEM ink in the
inkjet. The toner cartridges cost more, but they last longer. Laser
printers also cost more than inkjet printers when it comes to the
original purchase price. One more thing - While I don't have any
personal experience with them, I've often seen posts in this newsgroup
that say that in general laser printers are not as good as inkjets at
printing photos.

That is correct when it comes to using both OEM toner and OEM ink and
that is what the printer mfg say as well. If you do not print photos
and use the printer infrequently then laser may be a better choice. I
would look at the Okidata.

 

[Aftermarketink]

To my knowlage there is no Laser printer that can print directly on CD/
DVD.

Okidata is not a good choice for laser printers...HP offers the best
selection, proven reliability and value.

 

[measekite]

To my knowlage there is no Laser printer that can print directly on CD/
DVD.

Okidata is not a good choice for laser printers...HP offers the best
selection, proven reliability and value.

Okidata is a good alternative to look at. HP is not bad but not what
they have been in the past and the HP as a company went down hill.

 

[Aftermarketink]

Don't settle for a cheap alternative...HP dominates the landscape for
a reason...And you can get great aftermarket inks and toner for your
HP to make it better.

 

[Andrew]

If you do decide to look into color laser, look at several models within
a brand, because, for instance, HP has two models, the economy model (I
think it is called the 1600) is about $100 cheaper, but it has starter
cartridges. The other model (the 2600) for only about $100 more has
complete full cartridges, a higher duty cycles, and a ethernet card. If
you can afford the difference, the value is much better for the higher
capacity cartridge printer, since it supplies the equivalent of two
extra toner cartridges of toner worth over $200 if bought as HP cartridges.

Art

This is very good advice. I had assumed that all
printers came with starter ink cartridges.

I wish there was a way to compare printing costs
between colour inkjet and colour laser.

Andrew

 

[Andrew]

In general, the per page costs of operating a laser printer are lower
than that of an inkjet, especially if you only use OEM ink in the
inkjet. The toner cartridges cost more, but they last longer. Laser
printers also cost more than inkjet printers when it comes to the
original purchase price. One more thing - While I don't have any
personal experience with them, I've often seen posts in this newsgroup
that say that in general laser printers are not as good as inkjets at
printing photos.

So your selection comes down to more than how often you use your printer
- it also depends on what you use it for.

TJ

Perhaps I'll be patient and wait to see if a
laser CD printer becomes available. Printing
photos is not that important to me, just operating
costs.

Andrew

 

[Richard Steinfeld]

Okidata is not a good choice for laser printers...HP offers the best
selection, proven reliability and value.

I differ, and I speak from experience.
Note that Okidata's printers generate the image from tiny,
closely-spaced LEDs, not laser systems. The beauty of the process is
that there are no moving parts in recording the image on the drum.

Okidata did make one disastrous series of LED printers, copiers, etc.,
which were, of necessity transitional. They attempted to come up with an
environmentally-friendly process, and missed the mark on the drums,
which self-destructed very, very prematurely. I had one of these.

The next rounds of printers and subsequent ones had the former defects
licked.

The company's support has varied, but in my experience, it's been
outstanding, considering that Oki replaced my funky printer with a nice,
stable refurb after 7 years. Who will top that?

When I speak with Oki support, it's with people whose English I can
understand easily because they're located in the USA. Hewlett-Packard?

Richard

 

[Richard Steinfeld]

Don't settle for a cheap alternative...HP dominates the landscape for
a reason...And you can get great aftermarket inks and toner for your
HP to make it better.

Oh, Christ: another blabbermouth from gmail. Who does this remind you of?