Need help finding a mini-ITX pc to buy.

D

dterrors

I want to buy an ITX pc with these requirements:

1. Low power consumption. Low Low Low.
2. Small as possible.
3. Needs to be able to house a normal 3.5" ide/ata drive. Not a laptop
drive.
4. Has some usb ports.

It does NOT need much else:

1. only needs 128m of memory
2. CPU just need to be x86 compadible and low power. Hell I'd take a
PII. A celeron 500.
3. Doesn't need cd/dvd drive (I can connect one to usb port).
4. only minimal graphic capability.

Anyone have recommendations? Maybe a car pc? But an old slow used one
maybe? Where can I buy? thanks,

dt
 
J

Jed

I want to buy an ITX pc with these requirements:

1. Low power consumption. Low Low Low.
2. Small as possible.
3. Needs to be able to house a normal 3.5" ide/ata drive. Not a laptop
drive.
4. Has some usb ports.

It does NOT need much else:

1. only needs 128m of memory
2. CPU just need to be x86 compadible and low power. Hell I'd take a
PII. A celeron 500.
3. Doesn't need cd/dvd drive (I can connect one to usb port).
4. only minimal graphic capability.

Anyone have recommendations? Maybe a car pc? But an old slow used one
maybe? Where can I buy? thanks,

I built this a while back, don't know if it meets all your
requirements:

VIA / VPSD EPIA M10000 VIA C3 1GHz with FanProcessor Socket 370 VIA
CLE266 Mini ITX Motherboard/CPU Set $150.00US

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813181016&ATT=13-181-016&CMP=OTC-Froogle

Casetronic CheckerCube-2215 (Silver) Aluminum Mini ITX w/200W Case
$90.00US (It's also called the Morex Venus)

http://www.shentech.com/cachsalmiitx.html
 
P

Paul

I want to buy an ITX pc with these requirements:

1. Low power consumption. Low Low Low.
2. Small as possible.
3. Needs to be able to house a normal 3.5" ide/ata drive. Not a laptop
drive.
4. Has some usb ports.

It does NOT need much else:

1. only needs 128m of memory
2. CPU just need to be x86 compadible and low power. Hell I'd take a
PII. A celeron 500.
3. Doesn't need cd/dvd drive (I can connect one to usb port).
4. only minimal graphic capability.

Anyone have recommendations? Maybe a car pc? But an old slow used one
maybe? Where can I buy? thanks,

dt

http://www.mini-itx.com
http://www.mini-itx.com/store/

You can also get pretty big flash drives, like this IDE flash
drive. Shop around to get the best price, since some stores
gouge for drives like these.

http://meritline.stores.yahoo.net/super-talent-2-5-inch-ide-flash-micro-drive-16gb.html

Paul
 
P

paulmd

I want to buy an ITX pc with these requirements:

1. Low power consumption. Low Low Low.
2. Small as possible.
3. Needs to be able to house a normal 3.5" ide/ata drive. Not a laptop
drive.
4. Has some usb ports.

It does NOT need much else:

1. only needs 128m of memory
2. CPU just need to be x86 compadible and low power. Hell I'd take a
PII. A celeron 500.
3. Doesn't need cd/dvd drive (I can connect one to usb port).
4. only minimal graphic capability.

Anyone have recommendations? Maybe a car pc? But an old slow used one
maybe? Where can I buy? thanks,

dt

VIA specializes in these ultra low power computers.

http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/

Look at the processors and mainboards sections.

http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/processors/
http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/mainboards/

Happy hunting.
 
K

kony

I want to buy an ITX pc with these requirements:

1. Low power consumption. Low Low Low.

Ok but how low does it really need to be?
For example, you might be able to get an idle CPU under 2W,
but if it'll be cool enough at 5W and the PSU/etc can handle
5-10W, there may be no reason to shoot for 2W. Plus, if you
have a slower CPU having to keep busy a larger % of the
time, that idle wattage time is a lower % of total time,
while the slightly higher wattage CPU may be in idle mode
twice as long, offsetting much of the difference till it'd
only matter if you were trying to run it off batteries.

2. Small as possible.

Again only you know how much this really matters. There's
small like mATX, or flex, or mini, ITX, or even SBC (single
board computers) than vary significantly not only in size
but cost and features. Then there's the case, it might be
easier to define what your case will be then what'll fit
into it.

3. Needs to be able to house a normal 3.5" ide/ata drive. Not a laptop
drive.
4. Has some usb ports.

It does NOT need much else:

1. only needs 128m of memory

Need it be full sized memory or SO-DIMM (Notebook) is ok?
What type of memory? Speed?

In general you might want to define a few requirements for
the use, as uber-low-power systems can have drawbacks such
as:

L2 cache size
Memory throughput, and related-
Video performance

2. CPU just need to be x86 compadible and low power. Hell I'd take a
PII. A celeron 500.

You write that as if Celeron 500 is extremely low. It's
actually faster at many tasks than some very small/low-power
setups, particularly at floating point calculations.

3. Doesn't need cd/dvd drive (I can connect one to usb port).
4. only minimal graphic capability.

So analog VGA out is what you mean?
The significance here is that going tiny means everything
has to be just as you need it, adding even one single PCI
card may offset any size advantage you'd otherwise have.
Anyone have recommendations? Maybe a car pc? But an old slow used one
maybe? Where can I buy? thanks,

The more popular answer is a Via Epia, there are now
multiple generations with different performance but none are
very fast, relatively speaking. Price can vary a lot, best
to find a model and then price-compare for that model before
purchase.

http://www.logicsupply.com/product_info.php/products_id/212

http://www.logicsupply.com/index.php/cPath/87


The higher performance option is something similar built
around Pentium Mobile CPU, like this,
http://www.logicsupply.com/index.php/cPath/78_75

SBCs can be quite a bit smaller but substantially more
expensive too.
http://www.arcom.com/ebx-pentium-m-apollo.htm

http://linuxdevices.com/articles/AT2614444132.html


If you can accept something slightly larger you can get it
cheaper,
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813185043
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813153045

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?Submit=ENE&N=2000200446+1075720949

A C3 at roughly 800MHz is on par with a Celeron 500, slower
at floating point but if you need floating point
performance, neither are good options, get a LV (low
voltage) Pentium M platform.
 
D

dterrors

kony said:
Ok but how low does it really need to be?
For example, you might be able to get an idle CPU under 2W,
but if it'll be cool enough at 5W and the PSU/etc can handle
5-10W, there may be no reason to shoot for 2W. Plus, if you
have a slower CPU having to keep busy a larger % of the
time, that idle wattage time is a lower % of total time,
while the slightly higher wattage CPU may be in idle mode
twice as long, offsetting much of the difference till it'd
only matter if you were trying to run it off batteries.

I needs to be as low as it can reasonable be. In other words, not an
800 psu like so many computers have today. I want the whole thing
drawing under 150. But lower is better, hence I don't need to specify.


Again only you know how much this really matters. There's
small like mATX, or flex, or mini, ITX, or even SBC (single
board computers) than vary significantly not only in size
but cost and features. Then there's the case, it might be
easier to define what your case will be then what'll fit
into it.


Again, I want it as small as possible, smaller is better. SBC sounds
good, sure. I don't have a definition of "what my case will be".
Need it be full sized memory or SO-DIMM (Notebook) is ok?
What type of memory? Speed?

I don't care. Sure, notebook is fine.
In general you might want to define a few requirements for
the use, as uber-low-power systems can have drawbacks such
as:

L2 cache size
Memory throughput, and related-
Video performance

As stated in the original post, it doesn't need good video
capabilities. I don't care about cache and memory throughput.
You write that as if Celeron 500 is extremely low. It's
actually faster at many tasks than some very small/low-power
setups, particularly at floating point calculations.

Ok good to know, thanks. I'm shooting for something near a pII, as
stated.
So analog VGA out is what you mean?
The significance here is that going tiny means everything
has to be just as you need it, adding even one single PCI
card may offset any size advantage you'd otherwise have.

No pci cards necessary.
The more popular answer is a Via Epia, there are now
multiple generations with different performance but none are
very fast, relatively speaking. Price can vary a lot, best
to find a model and then price-compare for that model before
purchase.

http://www.logicsupply.com/product_info.php/products_id/212


That one looks really good thanks very much
 
K

kony

I needs to be as low as it can reasonable be. In other words, not an
800 psu like so many computers have today. I want the whole thing
drawing under 150. But lower is better, hence I don't need to specify.

That's not too hard, if you buy the cheapest system Dell
sells today, it'll be under 150 and isn't even particularly
engineered towards low power. Even so, supposing the PSU is
150W, it is better to have a lot of margin, be drawing 50W
from a 150W PSU rather than 120W, particularly if there's
limited airflow and/or high ambient temp, the PSU will last
longer. If moderate temp and good active cooling (merely
meaning a fan somewhere even if low RPM, and appropriately
located chassis intake or exhaust vents), it may not matter
so much.


Again, I want it as small as possible, smaller is better. SBC sounds
good, sure. I don't have a definition of "what my case will be".

Then it's a bit pointless to go for something much smaller
than the case you end up using, will accomodate, true? That
is, unless you're building one from scratch and if that is
the situation, you may or may not benefit from any one
dimension of a board being smaller. For example, the
cheapest thing I linked last time (IIRC) was a PCChips
M789CG @ Newegg, and it's only a couple dozen mm longer than
most of the EPIAs. Whether you could exploit two dozen mm or
not depends on what else is being stuffed into same case.

I don't care. Sure, notebook is fine.

I'm only asking because from your initial specs, there are
too many choices, and you didn't specify the budget or how
important size was, how much of a premium it was worth for
slight size reduction... since the smallest SBCs are even
lower performance and rise in price quickly. $1000 might be
a typical price-point.

http://www.gms4sbc.com/products/product_pages/modular/p60x/p60x.html

As stated in the original post, it doesn't need good video
capabilities. I don't care about cache and memory throughput.


Ok, but then I wonder why you don't care?
My point is, most people think of very low power or SBC
systems in terms of what a desktop can do. You made a
comment about a PII or Celeron 500 recently, but for some
things either of these CPUs will be MUCH faster than a SBC,
if you chose one with very low cache or memory throughput.


Ok good to know, thanks. I'm shooting for something near a pII, as
stated.

Some other architecture would be similar "on average" but
that average could be substantially higher or lower
performance in multiple areas.

In other words, if it were as useful to know what desktop
CPU you'd have liked to to be equivalent to on average, I
would have asked that instead. If you can't resolve past a
PII for a desktop you can only use a PII desktop, or far
overshoot the mark just be sure you're covered, which means
the Pentium Mobile platform.


That one looks really good thanks very much

Depends on your needs... It's larger than it might need be
due to having the PCI slot, the card slots, and is going to
be less tolerant of small, low airflow chassis because they
cheaped out and used electrolytic capacitors. On the other
hand, in past years you couldn't get anywhere near this much
functionality at this size, for this price, it is a great
value for some uses. The Via 600MHz CPU is significantly
slower than a PII-400 or Celeron 500.
 
D

dterrors

kony said:
On 24 Aug 2006 14:22:39 -0700, (e-mail address removed) wrote:


Depends on your needs... It's larger than it might need be
due to having the PCI slot, the card slots, and is going to
be less tolerant of small, low airflow chassis because they
cheaped out and used electrolytic capacitors. On the other
hand, in past years you couldn't get anywhere near this much
functionality at this size, for this price, it is a great
value for some uses. The Via 600MHz CPU is significantly
slower than a PII-400 or Celeron 500.

I'm suprised to hear that, actually. the AMD Geode has a PR of 1500.
That blows away a celeron 500 or any pII.

This machine will become a linux file server, so it doesn't need good
graphics capability. I'm finding some machines that can house 2.5"
laptop style drives but not many that can do a normal ATA/IDE 3.5"
drive as I specified in my original post.
 
K

kony

I'm suprised to hear that, actually. the AMD Geode has a PR of 1500.
That blows away a celeron 500 or any pII.

What is surprising about a different CPU having a different
IPC, performance per MHz? That's always the way it is.

For a compute-demanding use, Geode is a better choice.


This machine will become a linux file server, so it doesn't need good
graphics capability. I'm finding some machines that can house 2.5"
laptop style drives but not many that can do a normal ATA/IDE 3.5"
drive as I specified in my original post.

Ok, practically any old CPU can do that, because CPU has
minimal involvement except for software raid uses. For
software raid, whether it's a bottleneck might depend on the
network bandwidth. IE- for 100Mb, that alone is the
bottleneck if you have modern drives, the CPU won't matter.

On the other hand, if you had gigabit ethernet and software
raid, C3 @ 600MHz may be a bottleneck, it's close... and
more likely the higher performing the HDDs are.
 
D

dterrors

kony said:
Ok, practically any old CPU can do that, because CPU has
minimal involvement except for software raid uses. For
software raid, whether it's a bottleneck might depend on the
network bandwidth. IE- for 100Mb, that alone is the
bottleneck if you have modern drives, the CPU won't matter.

On the other hand, if you had gigabit ethernet and software
raid, C3 @ 600MHz may be a bottleneck, it's close... and
more likely the higher performing the HDDs are.

Yep I just mean in terms of which motherboard/pc/case I buy- I want
something small yet able to hold a 3.5 drive rather than 2.5. The
models that support 3.5 tend to be significantly bigger, it's kind of a
drop-off point.
 

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