MVP Certification?

[aaron.kempf]

i dont care if it takes 10% longer if it takes 50% less maintenance;
30% less record locking problems.. easier deployment with smaller file
sizes

and im just blatantly not sure it does take 10% longer.

i mean-- QUERIES WORK in ADP.

Queries dont work in MDB.

What happens in Access MDb if you write query on top of query on top of
query?

It craps out and breaks. it just says 'the parameter is incorrect'--
or 'the query is too complex for little MDB chipmunks to chew on'

MDB queries just dont cut it anymore.

and Linked tables-- performance wise.. i mean DUH!!!

and updating SQL passthroughs?

it's just too much of a headache; keep everything in one database

aren't you tired of copying tables around?
aren't you tired of troubleshooting multiple versions of queries and
tabels?

aren't you tired of all that crap?

i mean-- with ADP you have one version of the truth--- whatever lives
in the SQL database.

it is just 10x simpler to deal with than all this MDB crap

 

[John Vinson]

i dont care if it takes 10% longer if it takes 50% less maintenance;
30% less record locking problems.. easier deployment with smaller file
sizes

and im just blatantly not sure it does take 10% longer.

i mean-- QUERIES WORK in ADP.

Queries dont work in MDB.

Odd. So none of the databases I've deployed over the past ten years
can work.

What happens in Access MDb if you write query on top of query on top of
query?

Works fine, if you do it right.

It craps out and breaks. it just says 'the parameter is incorrect'--
or 'the query is too complex for little MDB chipmunks to chew on'

Well, I'll grant that you CAN create a query too complex for JET to
handle. I've never had the problem come up in practice.

MDB queries just dont cut it anymore.

and Linked tables-- performance wise.. i mean DUH!!!

Again... there are many, many working, production Access applications
out there. You are asserting that none of them exist or can possibly
work. You're wrong.

and updating SQL passthroughs?

it's just too much of a headache; keep everything in one database

aren't you tired of copying tables around?

No, because I don't do so.

aren't you tired of troubleshooting multiple versions of queries and
tabels?

No, because I don't do so.

aren't you tired of all that crap?

No, because it's not crap: it works, if you take the time and effort
to work with the program and do it right.

i mean-- with ADP you have one version of the truth--- whatever lives
in the SQL database.

it is just 10x simpler to deal with than all this MDB crap

For you. Ok, fine; go for it.

John W. Vinson[MVP]

 

[Guest]

Aaron,

MSDE is designed for up to 25 concurrent users

Apparently you need to be reminded about the workload governor shackling ADP
database performance:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/?url=/library/en-us/architec/8_ar_sa2_0ciq.asp?frame=true

This document includes the following quotes:
"Like all versions of SQL Server 2000, SQL Server 2000 Personal Edition and
MSDE 2000 allow 32,767 connections to an instance of the database engine."

Comment:
MDB's are designed for up to 255 concurrent users, although the practical
limit is lower, just as the practical limit for MSDE lower, too.

Other quotes:
“There is no limit for the number of connections that can be executing
operations at the same time. The only effect of the workload governor is that
it starts slowing down the database engine when more than eight operations
are actively running at the same time.

and

“Once it has been activated, the workload governor limits performance by
stalling a user connection for a few milliseconds each time the connection
requests a logical read or write on any of the pages in the data files of a
database. . . . When the workload governor is active, it equally affects all
connections; it is not limited to slowing down only the connections that
activated the governor.â€

Comments:
Funny you've never bothered to mention this little caveat. You are
apparently working in a small microcosm of the database world, where ADP’s
have some minor advantages over MDB’s developed by average-level and
below-average-level Access developers. Most well-designed MDB front ends can
outdo ADP’s in features, capabilities, and speed.

Earlier, I stated that MSDE was throttled at 5 concurrent users. This was
the original setting, but somewhere along the way Microsoft apparently
increased this to 8 concurrent users. So I stand corrected on that point only.

I just know first hand that MS needs to win the ADP war or else they're
sure as hell not going to win the DB backend war.

Microsoft SQL Server has been increasing market share at a higher rate than
the other commercial databases for several years. ADP isn’t competing in
this war, because it’s not on the same level. ADP is competing with MDB’s,
and it’s been losing the war.

MDB is the most beautiful app ever written.

Hey, we actually agree on something here! It is the most beautiful app.
Where's my Kleenex? Tears are coming to my eyes.

But i'm sick and tired of having queries that 'just crap out'

This is usually a result of a poorly designed table structure, poor use of
indexes, and/or poorly designed queries. Applying the same techniques in
ADP’s or SQL Server may make the speed more tolerable, but poor performance
will remain.

that doesn't happen to me any longer-- ever since I started using ADP
when Access 2000 was still in beta.

ADP's are more tolerant of poor practices. Learn to design efficient
databases and your troubles with .mdb's will be greatly reduced.

the front page of MSDE read it and weep punk

There you go again, with derogatory name calling. This is the sign of an
immature, insecure person with an inferiority complex. You should practice
making intelligent arguments without resorting to yelling (all caps that
you've sometimes used), and name calling, and the use of obscene language.


Tom

http://www.access.qbuilt.com/html/expert_contributors.html
__________________________________________

:

http://www.microsoft.com/sql/msde/default.mspx

MSDE is designed for up to 25 concurrent users

the front page of MSDE read it and weep punk
I just know first hand that MS needs to win the ADP war or else they're
sure as hell not going to win the DB backend war.

MDB is the most beautiful app ever written.

But i'm sick and tired of having queries that 'just crap out'

that doesn't happen to me any longer-- ever since I started using ADP
when Access 2000 was still in beta.

-Aaron

 

[Arvin Meyer [MVP]]

Queries dont work in MDB.

What happens in Access MDb if you write query on top of query on top of
query?

It craps out and breaks. it just says 'the parameter is incorrect'--
or 'the query is too complex for little MDB chipmunks to chew on'

I have had queries bomb during the design phase with both Jet and with SQL.
It's always a mistake on my part, which I then fix and go on. I don't
understand your problem. Practically every application I've ever written has
queries 3 deep, I have one that's 7 deep. They all work. I have one that's
worked since 1994. All that's necessary to build a good application is to
use sound relational principles when designing the table structure. If you
do that, it doesn't matter if the data engine is in Jet, SQL-Server, or
Oracle for that matter.
--
Arvin Meyer, MCP, MVP
Microsoft Access
Free Access downloads:
http://www.datastrat.com
http://www.mvps.org/access

 

[aaron.kempf]

I dont believe that 'mdb works fine if you do it right'.

Microsoft won't help us to UNDERSTAND what makes a MDB query crap out.
It's undocumented. Unpredictable.

And unmaintainable.

In ACCESS DATA PROJECTS; i've got queries that _WORK_. I've got views
and stored procs; not a house of cards.

MDB you build queries and shit stops working; so then you backtrack and
reengineer shit.

In SQL Server; you dont have queries that just randomly crap out.

Don't tell me that 'sound relational principles' have anything to do
with Access working correctly. You can take your theory and shove
it... Theory has nothing to do with Access WORKING CORRECTLY.

ACCESS QUERIES JUST RANDOMLY CRAP OUT. WHETHER IT IS IN DEV OR IN
PRODUCTION-- THEY ARE JUST UNPREDICTABLE BEASTS.

Aren't you tired of adding a field to a query and access bitches that
'the joins are too complex'

i mean-- MDB queries are a beast; and I'd much rather use something
that is PREDICTABLE. I CAN DEBUG ADP QUERIES IN QUERY ANALYZER-- MDB
QUERY DEBUGGER SUCKS BIGTIME.
I mean-- they might as well have invented a new language because it
sure isn't english.

I mean-- has the MDB query debugger actually ever given you a error
message that HELPS YOU TO DIAGNOSE THE PROBLEM?

oh, 'the parameter is incorrect'. thanks Access.

oh, 'too many files'.

oh, 'the operation must use an updateable query'-- WHAT THE **** IS AN
UPDATEABLE QUERY MEAN? SQL SERVER WOULD GIVE ME A BETTER ERROR MESSAGE
THAT HELPS ME DIAGNOSE THE PROBLEM INSTEAD OF GOOGLING IT.

what the ****; mdb queries are the best feature; yet the buggiest thing
to ever come out of Redmond.

I'm sick and friggin tired of the MDB debugger.

I'm sick and tired of MDB performance; and waiting 3 seconds for end
users to refresh all their tables.. i mean.. shit like that-- is why
ADP kicks MDB's ass.

3 seconds and you're out of there.

3 seconds is too long to do anything.

And you guys -- i mean seriously.. how do you ensure that when you copy
these hundreds of MDB 'front ends' (gag) to 76 different machines-- how
do you ensure that people dont get in and much around on the queries?

How do you ensure that when you push out an update; that the query
really gets updated on all 76 different machines?

how do you make sure, when you change a table-- that this updates goes
out to each of these 'frontends (again gag, frontend backend is the
biggest pile of crap ever-- use SQL Server and your shit won't crash
when your fileserver does.. i mean--- ADP wont' hang your fileserver
with locks)

I just know from firsthand experience that you guys are on crack. And
MDB is an AWFUL PITA.

ADP has some bugs also.
<B>
But ADP doesn't throw a tissyfit and make me rewrite shit into temp
tables every 30 seconds.
</B>

 

[John Vinson]

ACCESS QUERIES JUST RANDOMLY CRAP OUT.

No. They don't, not in my experience.

Access Databases can indeed become corrupt (as can SQL/Server
databases, though I agree probably more frequently). But if you're
seeing queries that worked yesterday stop working today, you're seeing
something that I have NOT seen in Access.

John W. Vinson[MVP]

 

[Tony Toews]

and graham; buddy-- remember that MSDE is free; there isn't a single
reason to ever use MDB for ANYTHING

And what about the queries, forms, reports and modules?

Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Please respond only in the newsgroups so that others can
read the entire thread of messages.
Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at
http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm

 

[Tony Toews]

I see references to an MVP certification,

As others have stated is an award not a certification. However I like
our unofficial motto "MVPs answer the questions the MCSEs ask."

Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Please respond only in the newsgroups so that others can
read the entire thread of messages.
Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at
http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm

 

[dbahooker]

hahaha

you mvps are a bunch of fairies; i mean.. you're all mdb sissies