MS Flaw in the explanation of DNS without Netbios

[venomhed]

MS Flaw in the explanation of DNS without Netbios

I am sure this topic has been covered before but going
through hundreds of posts is going to be too time
consuming. Also a casual glance has not shown this exact
questions to have been asked yet.

I have a DNS MS video called ESO Readiness & Sustained
Education (http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?
scid=kb;en-us;330511)

While this is a very handy video for learning how MS DNS
works, and marginally good for how to setup MS DNS, there
seems to be a huge flaw in what the presenters are saying.

Basically they state that prior to Windows 2000 (Windows
NT, 98, 95) used NETBIOS for name resolution. However
they also state that Windows 2000 uses DNS exclusively
for name resolution without NETBIOS!

However upon disabling NETBIOS over TCP/IP on any client
workstation disables your ability to join ANY domain.
Even if you have DNS working fine, enter host/alias names
for the domain server, you CANNOT join the domain.

Upon re-enabling NETBIOS over TCP/IP all clients are able
to join the domain.

My friend and I and other MCP/MCSA/MCSE's have never
received a valid explanation of this short of it being an
error or miscommunication from MS folks. No one can
logically answer this question short of "I guess we still
use NETBIOS". These are from MS Certified trainers.

That is scary..

Any clues?

 

[Kevin D. Goodknecht Sr. [MVP]]

In

MS Flaw in the explanation of DNS without Netbios

I am sure this topic has been covered before but going
through hundreds of posts is going to be too time
consuming. Also a casual glance has not shown this exact
questions to have been asked yet.

I have a DNS MS video called ESO Readiness & Sustained
Education (http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?
scid=kb;en-us;330511)

While this is a very handy video for learning how MS DNS
works, and marginally good for how to setup MS DNS, there
seems to be a huge flaw in what the presenters are saying.

Basically they state that prior to Windows 2000 (Windows
NT, 98, 95) used NETBIOS for name resolution. However
they also state that Windows 2000 uses DNS exclusively
for name resolution without NETBIOS!

However upon disabling NETBIOS over TCP/IP on any client
workstation disables your ability to join ANY domain.
Even if you have DNS working fine, enter host/alias names
for the domain server, you CANNOT join the domain.

Upon re-enabling NETBIOS over TCP/IP all clients are able
to join the domain.

My friend and I and other MCP/MCSA/MCSE's have never
received a valid explanation of this short of it being an
error or miscommunication from MS folks. No one can
logically answer this question short of "I guess we still
use NETBIOS". These are from MS Certified trainers.

That is scary..

Any clues?

They should still be able join the domain by its FQDN but not by the
domain's netbios name. Provided dynamic registration is working correctly.

 

[chris]

How come, when I disable Netbios over TCP/IP, I am not able to browse my
internal network through 'My Network Places' ?

Does Win2k still use Netbios for browsing the network ?

I was under the impression that Netbios would not be needed AT ALL if you
had a total Windows 2000 network environment (which I do.)

Thanks for any help regarding this most confusing issue

chris

 

[Herb Martin]

How come, when I disable Netbios over TCP/IP, I am not able to browse my
internal network through 'My Network Places' ?

Browsing *IS* a NetBIOS legacy application.

Does Win2k still use Netbios for browsing the network ?

Yes, since Browsing is a legacy NetBIOS application.

I was under the impression that Netbios would not be needed AT ALL if you
had a total Windows 2000 network environment (which I do.)

There are a handful of other minor issues with disabling NetBIOS,
but the biggest are support for legacy clients and legacy applications
(starting with Browsing and including some third party programs.)

You should be able to run the DOMAIN, join, leave, use the
features of the domain, with Win2000+ machines and no NetBIOS.

(I am not claiming you won't miss NetBIOS, just that the domain
will function for both clients and servers.)

NetBIOS isn't that big a deal anyway -- as long as we are talking
about NBT (NetBIOS over TCP/IP) with WINS servers implemented.
In fact the only major disadvantage is having to setup the WINS servers
for significant MS/IP networks. WINS setup is not a hard job; it's free
easy; and can be included on a server doing other jobs (like DNS)
but you need to go through the steps if you have an MS network running
IP with any significant complexity.

 

[Kevin D. Goodknecht Sr. [MVP]]

In

How come, when I disable Netbios over TCP/IP, I am not able to browse
my internal network through 'My Network Places' ?

Does Win2k still use Netbios for browsing the network ?

I was under the impression that Netbios would not be needed AT ALL if
you had a total Windows 2000 network environment (which I do.)

Thanks for any help regarding this most confusing issue

chris

I have disabled NetBIOS on my network the browsing the network issue is
replaced by publishing your shares in Active Directory. The directory is
available in Network neighborhood.
For shares to be seen in the Directory they must be published in Active
Directory.

 

[venomhed]

Johnathan we need your smart ass comments like a hole in
the head.

Try it sometime.


Thanks to all the helpful folks. We really needed it!

 

[Ace Fekay [MVP]]

In

MS Flaw in the explanation of DNS without Netbios

I am sure this topic has been covered before but going
through hundreds of posts is going to be too time
consuming. Also a casual glance has not shown this exact
questions to have been asked yet.

I have a DNS MS video called ESO Readiness & Sustained
Education (http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?
scid=kb;en-us;330511)

While this is a very handy video for learning how MS DNS
works, and marginally good for how to setup MS DNS, there
seems to be a huge flaw in what the presenters are saying.

Basically they state that prior to Windows 2000 (Windows
NT, 98, 95) used NETBIOS for name resolution. However
they also state that Windows 2000 uses DNS exclusively
for name resolution without NETBIOS!

However upon disabling NETBIOS over TCP/IP on any client
workstation disables your ability to join ANY domain.
Even if you have DNS working fine, enter host/alias names
for the domain server, you CANNOT join the domain.

Upon re-enabling NETBIOS over TCP/IP all clients are able
to join the domain.

My friend and I and other MCP/MCSA/MCSE's have never
received a valid explanation of this short of it being an
error or miscommunication from MS folks. No one can
logically answer this question short of "I guess we still
use NETBIOS". These are from MS Certified trainers.

That is scary..

Any clues?

As Kevin mentioned, you can still join by using the FQDN of the domain name,
which uses DNS to find the domain, and not just the single label name, as
you mentioned, which would revert to using NetBIOS to find it on the local
subnet, or elsewhere if using WINS or LMHOSTS files.

As Herb mentions, NetBIOS is supported for legacy and current apps that
require it. Network Neighborhood requires it. TO determine if you need
NetBIOS functionality in your infrastructure, you have to ask your users if
they need Net Neighborhood and/or if any current production apps you're
using requires it, otherwise, you can do away with it, but keep in mind,
everything would have to be done by FQDN.

--
Regards,
Ace

Please direct all replies to the newsgroup so all can benefit.

Ace Fekay, MCSE 2000, MCSE+I, MCSA, MCT, MVP
Microsoft Windows MVP - Active Directory

 

[chris]

thanks to all for clarifying these two issues !

regards,
chris.

 

[Ace Fekay [MVP]]

In

thanks to all for clarifying these two issues !

regards,
chris.

No prob!

--
Regards,
Ace

Please direct all replies to the newsgroup so all can benefit.

Ace Fekay, MCSE 2000, MCSE+I, MCSA, MCT, MVP
Microsoft Windows MVP - Active Directory

 

[Nate]

Chris, This may be off your topic somewhat ...

Herb,

I've heard that Exchange 2K needs NetBT for installation
and operation. Is this a farce or reality? I still have
Netbios running on my Native mode AD infrastructure. What
I was told was that there are still a few apps like
Exchange2k that have hard coded reliance on Netbios/WINS
and the rumor of Netbios going away will be in later OS
releases, but presently is still a necessary evil. Maybe
2k3 ... Longhorn?

Thanx for the insight.

Nate!

 

[Herb Martin]

You'll have to ask someone else -- I just happily
run Netbios on all my interal machines.

It's really isn't a big deal, and we don't want to give
up Browsing so that's pretty much the end of our
interest except academically.