missing print forms

[ron vandervalk]

I originally thought that this was a problem with Crystal Reports, but I
notice the same behavior in notepad, firefox, and IE. Word, however, works
correctly.

This is the issue: select the properties screen for a printer. Under the
Printing preferences on the General AND the Advanced tabs you set a form
size to something other than regular "letter 8.5 x 11" Let's say you set
it to an "Envelope #10" form. Save and close out the properties dialog.
Now go to Word and do a print. When you get the printer dialog, select the
printer in question and do a properties on it to check what form it will
use. Mine says "Envelope #10" like you would expect.

However, if I do the exact same thing with notepad, firefox, or IE, the
printer form goes back to "letter 8.5 x 11". This is the problem I
originally saw in Crystal Reports. I set the printer form in CR and in the
actual printer properties to a custom size and it looks fine in the
preview, but when I print to the printer it prints on the "letter" form
not my custom form. When I looked at the properties just before printing,
I saw that it went back to "Letter".

Somehow, Word is fetching the correct form, but Crystal Reports, Notepad,
Firefox, and IE are not... My question is WHY??? Can anybody shed some
light on this behavior and what I might do as a workaround?

Thanks,
Ron

 

[Arthur Entlich]

This is just a guess, but is it possible that the printer is reporting
back to the computer software the type of tray or paper in it, and the
software is trying to accommodate that?

Does this happen regardless of the printer used (if you have more than
one, can you test that?). I've run into similar problems with printers
which detect the paper size or the paper tray type. Sometimes printers
are just too smart for their own good! ;-)

Art

 

[ron vandervalk]

Hi Art,

I've got a number of printers defined and it seems to happen on each
one. On one printer I tried setting the paper tray from "auto" to "tray
1" and it had no effect. I'm sure this is something that can be easily
duplicated, and I'm baffled as to why MS Word picks up the right form
and the other programs don't. This might be a windows bug, as I tried
the same thing with a vista pc (ie: changing the form on the exact same
printer) and notepad, ie, and firefox (same version) now all worked
fine. That is, they had the "envelope #10" form showing.

So now the question remains, can you workaround this issue in XP?

Comments? Suggestions? all are welcome.

thanks, Ron

?

 

[me]

I've got a number of printers defined and it seems to happen on each
one. On one printer I tried setting the paper tray from "auto" to "tray
1" and it had no effect. I'm sure this is something that can be easily
duplicated, and I'm baffled as to why MS Word picks up the right form
and the other programs don't.

Office applications store your printer settings as part of the
individual document. Try setting up some other specially pre-defined
printer up in Windoze itself. In other words Start => Settings =>
Printers and Faxes. Right click on your printer instance and choose
Printing Preferences. Changes made here will now be the default setup
for that printer when chosen. If need be you can have several
instances of the same physical printer setup with different default
settings.

 

[Arthur Entlich]

Hi Ron,

I'm going to send this on to some of the people I converse with at
Microsoft regarding printer driver issues and see if they either have a
reasonable answer as to what's going on, if they are aware of this
problem, and if they know of a work around. I'll let you know what I
find out.

Art

 

[ron vandervalk]

Thanks, Art, that's very nice of you. I look forward to learning if the MS
people have any suggestions.

Ron

 

[Burt]

Hi Ron,

I'm going to send this on to some of the people I converse with at
Microsoft regarding printer driver issues and see if they either have a
reasonable answer as to what's going on, if they are aware of this
problem, and if they know of a work around. I'll let you know what I find
out.

Art

(snip)

Art - I have had an HP P3005 laserjet now for about four months. I
routinely use Wordperfect 8 due to the ease to view ALL formatting codes
when desired. I've also found that WP is much more convienent for
formatting documents as the format follows the document for printer setup,
whereas MS Word can sometimes present printer formatting difficulties with
two places to deal with such formats. I do use MS Word, however, when it is
necessary for me to share documents with others who are more likely to have
Word than WP.

The problems I had with the new HP printer are twofold. One is that one of
the Avery label formats that worked fine with the HP 5p printer I just
replaced (which, by the way, was still working with never a down second)
prints out with a different left margin and screws up this one label set. I
spent a great deal of time with customer tech support, switched from PCL6 to
PCL5 without improvement, and finally decided to print this particular
label on my inkjet instead. I could have adjusted the margin in the Avery
format to "fake" the proper output, or I could have printed it out of MSWord
2000, . This particular label print job is one I sometimes only want to
print a few labels on the page, and the laser printer produces a fair amount
of heat which is a contraindication for running a label page through the
printer twice, whereas the inkjet printer handles the double or triple
feeding of labels with no problem.

The other problem has to do with the paper guides. I prefer that the left
guide be fixed and the right guide moved to accomodate document width. I'm
sure that having both paper guides move toward the center simplifies the
paper feed mechanism and probably would prevent skewing in some cases.
Skewing was never a probem with the HP 5p with a fixed left guide, however.
The requirement to move both guides toward the center takes away the ability
to avoid setting custom paper sizes and print smaller-than-8.5 width papers
by simply setting the right margin to accomodate the narrower stock. This
is a quick trick when occasionally printing off-size envelopes.

Small complaints that are easily overcome, and the new printer is super-fast
and works well. Nonetheless, These are some of the quirks in
computerization that are annoying until a workaround is arranged.

 

[Arthur Entlich]

Hi Ron,

I sent your posting regarding the form issue to some people with MS.

Of course, they want more detail.

In specific which printer(s) is this occurring with and where did the
printer drivers comes from? Were they, for instance, MS certified
drivers which came with the OS disks, or manufacturer's drivers which
came with the printer, or were downloaded from their websites, etc.
HAve you tried tehthetest published drivers for the OS in question (XP).
I do assume you have SP1 and SP2 updates installed.

In regard to determining which form sizes are natively within the
driver, they suggested the following (which I believe you may have
already done):

The best way to determine which forms the driver says it supports is to
open a Print Dialog (Word, Notepad, whichever) then click on Preferences
(or Properties), then click on Advanced. All of the paper sizes the
driver says it supports are there.

My experience is that the MS people don't like to start hunting down a
potential bug until they get enough detail on the hardware and software
involved to narrow down the search, so any further details you can
provide would be helpful.

Also, if you would prefer to work on this within private email, you can
email me at the address below:

e-printerhelp(at)mvps(dot)org

(at) = @
(dot) = .

Thanks,

Art

 

[Arthur Entlich]

Hi Burt,

As you know, I'm not a willing apologist for Microsoft, but on a quick
overview of your concerns, I have a feeling this isn't a problem caused
by the OS, but instead is due to charges in design elements on the two
printers (as a guess, probably to reduce footprint of the printer) or
perhaps changes in the paper path. The concept of maintaining the
midpoint of the paper regardless of the size of the paper is fairly
conventional with laser printers, and it may indeed be due to the paper
transport system, but I suspect it is more due to use of the laser drum
and toner cartridges to avoid uneven wear and toner usage which would
occur if one margin was always emphasized. With inkjet printers is
doesn't matter, and the advantage is the closer the printed area is to
the area where the head parks, the less head movement required, and
therefore a quicker output and less wear and tear on the mechanics.

Most people aren't aware that Microsoft doesn't actually write the
drivers for peripherals which are offered in the OS "in box". They are
tested by Microsoft for compatibility, but usually the peripheral
manufacturer provides them, and they can differ from the ones they
provide with the unit or on their websites due to time of release, and
sometimes the wish to conform to some templates the OS provides.

If in terms of work arounds for the problems you mention you mean the
ability to customize a set of parameters that would become the new
defaults for as long as you wished them as such (such as telling your
new HP printer to "always" print 3 mm further to the right as the start
point because that is where your old printer found its start point, that
may be possible. If that is what you are desiring, let me know and I
will see if there is either a current way to do that, or if one could be
written into the next OS release. Which OS are you currently referring to?

In terms of the overheated sticker adhesive due to multiple pass
throughs over time, that's something perhaps best brought to Avery
Labels. My work around isn't elegant either. I only use the stickers I
will need for printing and mount them temporarily on a backing sheet
that is full size in the appropriate position.

Art