Microsoft: Get rid of VB.NET -- now !

[Spare Change]

This is a recommendation to Microsoft.

VB.net and c# are almost exactly equivalent.

I know why Microsoft invented VB.net -- to wean old style VB6 scripters into
a true OO world: .Net.

But now, what is really a pain, is trying to find information about coding,
and having to search through vb and c# examples and translate the vb to c#
( my chosen language ).

I don't mind the translation, but what I mind is that in Google, when I
search, I usually add "c#' as a keyword -- which pretty much excludes vb
examples that sometimes exist.

I say to Microsoft: start obsolescing vb.net and folding the community into
c# -- it will be a stronger, tighter, more powerful community. One which
can merge with the growing Linux mono c# community.

 

[Bryan Martin]

Man this sounds almost the same as how a dictator gets started. If your not
doing it how i want then your not doing it right.

Go away troll

 

[Daniel O'Connell [C# MVP]]

This is a recommendation to Microsoft.

VB.net and c# are almost exactly equivalent.

They are similar but they are growing apart. I consider both languages
different, would approach problems differently in each, and you should as
well.

But now, what is really a pain, is trying to find information about
coding,
and having to search through vb and c# examples and translate the vb to c#
( my chosen language ).

Its really a minor issue, and if you are having real problems you can
probably get help here, most posters are atleast able to expose basic ideas
in both languages. You don't *need* coding examples to see how to do things,
just explinations of what to do, what classes\methods to use, etc.

There is no harm in asking, really, just don't go nuts.

I don't mind the translation, but what I mind is that in Google, when I
search, I usually add "c#' as a keyword -- which pretty much excludes vb
examples that sometimes exist.

Then type .NET instead...

Anyway, this is the weakest anti-VB reasoning I've seen yet...could you
atleast declare that its a horrible langauge and should be destroyed to keep
it from corrupting minds or something? Dropping a language because its
inconvient to search is not a very good reason and, until pretty recently,
would have been just as good for C#(You'd be surprised how often the #
messed things up).

 

[Spare Change]

They are similar but they are growing apart.

Really ?

In what way, specifically...

 

[Daniel O'Connell [C# MVP]]

Really ?

In what way, specifically...

Umm, well, lets see. Outside of the fundamental differences(Statement based
vs expression based, case senstivity, heritage, etc), C# is moving slightly
towards the functional language end of the spectrum with the addition of
anonymous methods and iterators(both rather nice features of languages like
python, for example) while VB is focusing on a more RAD target with its My
namespace and additional IDE improvements. VB probably has a few other bits
as well, but I am not well versed in the new VB features we should expect
next year. Maybe a VB MVP or someone could provide more information on that.

Its still a minor bit, and proven features will trade back and forth quite a
lot, but VB and C# are certainly not the only langauges that this is a
factor for, just look at java1.5(if you don't learn from the other side, you
are pretty much doomed to failure after all), however it is a sign of
seperation. The differences will *not* be as pronounced as vb6 vs java, for
example, for quite a while yet. These two languages started with teh same
trunk and are only now beginning to take full lives of their own. It may be
a few years, but I do think they will become unique and individually suited
to individuals for reasons beyond the most basic syntatical features.

 

[Spare Change]

Ok.

Scratch that idea.

Umm, well, lets see. Outside of the fundamental differences(Statement based
vs expression based, case senstivity, heritage, etc), C# is moving slightly
towards the functional language end of the spectrum with the addition of
anonymous methods and iterators(both rather nice features of languages like
python, for example) while VB is focusing on a more RAD target with its My
namespace and additional IDE improvements. VB probably has a few other bits
as well, but I am not well versed in the new VB features we should expect
next year. Maybe a VB MVP or someone could provide more information on that.

Its still a minor bit, and proven features will trade back and forth quite a
lot, but VB and C# are certainly not the only langauges that this is a
factor for, just look at java1.5(if you don't learn from the other side, you
are pretty much doomed to failure after all), however it is a sign of
seperation. The differences will *not* be as pronounced as vb6 vs java, for
example, for quite a while yet. These two languages started with teh same
trunk and are only now beginning to take full livesoftheirown.Itmaybe
a few years, but I do think they will become unique and individually suited
to individuals for reasons beyond the most basic syntatical features.

 

[Daniel O'Connell [C# MVP]]

Ok.

Scratch that idea.

Come again?

 

[Brett O'Callaghan]

No Microsoft, don't. I hate the squiggly brackets and stupid
semi-colons. ;-)

 

[clintonG]

IMO the nacent trend towards VB.NET RAD will within a year or
two after the release of ASP.NET 2.0 inspire a surge in development
using VB.NET as was the case when Microsoft released Visual Basic
itself.

That will cast VB developers into a new light once again however, a
role which will push wages down for VB developers who rightly or not
will soon be perceived by managers and customers alike who have heard
that VB.NET applications can be 'developed' with as little as 2-3 lines
of code.

Soon, VB.NET developers will be perceived as push-button monkey
code generators the equivalent of FrontPage and Dreamweaver
'developers' who will then need to spend most of their time trying to
resolve themselves to the fact that they have achieved compensation
parity with the garbage man.


--
<%= Clinton Gallagher, "Twice the Results -- Half the Cost"
Architectural & e-Business Consulting -- Software Development
NET (e-mail address removed)
URL http://www.metromilwaukee.com/clintongallagher/

 

[Cor Ligthert]

Why are all those C# people telling to get rid of VB.Net?

 

[Mick Doherty]

Because those "Real Programmers" have trouble converting VB source to C#. Us
"Toy Programmers" that use VB have no such trouble converting C# source to
VB and so we don't tell anyone how rubbish it is.

80)

 

[Daniel O'Connell [C# MVP]]

Why are all those C# people telling to get rid of VB.Net?

Pretty much for the same reason so many VB people want C# to be exactly like
VB, just with {'s.

They are lazy, .

 

[Daniel O'Connell [C# MVP]]

IMO the nacent trend towards VB.NET RAD will within a year or
two after the release of ASP.NET 2.0 inspire a surge in development
using VB.NET as was the case when Microsoft released Visual Basic
itself.

That will cast VB developers into a new light once again however, a
role which will push wages down for VB developers who rightly or not
will soon be perceived by managers and customers alike who have heard
that VB.NET applications can be 'developed' with as little as 2-3 lines
of code.

Soon, VB.NET developers will be perceived as push-button monkey
code generators the equivalent of FrontPage and Dreamweaver
'developers' who will then need to spend most of their time trying to
resolve themselves to the fact that they have achieved compensation
parity with the garbage man.

That may be, but is that an argument for stifling language evolution?

This is the effect of marketing, *not* the language itself. Unfortunatly,
the RAD "less than 10 lines of code" thing is a marketers wetdream...and a
devs nightmare. But what can ya do, most people don't understand whats
invovled no matter of it is a VB application or one written in some arcane
langauge, its still complex.

Convincing anyone of that, however, can take more time than jsut writting
the damn thing and getting drunk.

 

[jela]

Please remind this:
How many programs have you start writing?
How many of those got finished ?
How many of those got properly installed on someone else's PC ?
How many hours did you spend solving bugs ?

Answering this question remains the same, whatever language you use. Doesn't it?

If anyone can give me a bug free program,
I'll switch to that language immediatly.

 

[Jon Skeet [C# MVP]]

Please remind this:
How many programs have you start writing?
How many of those got finished ?
How many of those got properly installed on someone else's PC ?
How many hours did you spend solving bugs ?

Answering this question remains the same, whatever language you use.
Doesn't it?

No, I don't believe it does. Some languages make it easier to have bugs
than others - I know I spend a lot less time finding bugs writing in C#
(or Java) than I did in C, for example.

If anyone can give me a bug free program,
I'll switch to that language immediatly.

Sure, and that's not going to happen - but just because perfection
isn't unattainable doesn't mean that all languages/platforms are equal.

 

[Cor Ligthert]

Please remind this:

How many programs have you start writing?
How many of those got finished ?
How many of those got properly installed on someone else's PC ?
How many hours did you spend solving bugs ?

Answering this question remains the same, whatever language you use. Doesn't it?

If anyone can give me a bug free program,
I'll switch to that language immediatly.

Remind this:

What did you expect your first program would do and what every time for the
next one.

When that is still the same than you are or a complete newbie or somebody
who never visits a newsgroup to improve his skills.

Just my thought,

Cor

 

[C# Learner]

Why are all those C# people telling to get rid of VB.Net?

John Bailo ("Space Change" here) is not a "C# person".

Some call him a troll. Others call him a wacko. I think he's somewhere in
between.

http://groups.google.com/groups?q="john+bailo"

 

[clintonG]

Well, even though you introduced some quibble (with which I
can agree) it seems the outcome will be the same and there will
be lots of VB developers trying to drink their regrets away when
the rest of us enlightened ones are busy getting paid the big bucks
because we adopted C# which will allow us to stay off the gallows
a bit longer than the other chumps

--
<%= Clinton Gallagher, "Twice the Results -- Half the Cost"
Architectural & e-Business Consulting -- Software Development
NET (e-mail address removed)
URL http://www.metromilwaukee.com/clintongallagher/

 

[Rob Windsor [MVP]]

Can you elaborate on how the release of ASP.NET 2.0 will turn VB developers
into "push-button monkeys"? Everything I've seen or heard about ASP.NET 2.0
works exactly the same in VB or C#.

I hate to generalize but I see this all the time, C# advocates making
unfounded and unsupported statements about things that VB can't do or how C#
is a superior tool. The tools are virtually the same now and the slight
divergence we see in 2005 is in Visual Studio tools like the code editor and
debugger (e.g. expansions and refactoring vs. snippets and
edit-and-continue) not in the capabilities of the languages.

--
Rob Windsor [MVP-VB]
G6 Consulting
Toronto, Canada

 

[Cor Ligthert]

Clinton,

Why are you thinking that the ones who find VBNet in the current version
very productive, cannot write C# ?

You see still a lot of ancient programs be used (not including C# that),
however seldom you see stopping the evolution where the winner is the
strongest. (And in programming that is always the one which gives the
highest productivity at the lowest price, it is not a religion do you know)

Cor

"clintonG"