Microsoft Disk Defragmenter

[Patient Guy]

Other than:

1. wasting time
2. spinning the disk unnecessarily and adding wear-and-tear to it
3. taking up the space it does as an executable possibly with linked code
files

what purpose does the Microsoft Disk Defragmenter serve?

It leaves the files just as fragmented (perhaps even more?) when it
finishes as when it started (as shown by running the analysis before and
after).

I don't care if you do it in normal user startup mode.
I don't care if you do it in normal user safe mode.
I don't care if you do it as Administrator in safe mode with command
prompt.

I have been doing a bit of programming myself for the past 20 years,
starting with Applesoft BASIC on the ][e, then putzing around on the IBM
PC, and later trying to develop web form-based database interface even
before ASP and PHP were thoughts in the minds of their creators (my
employer actually paid me for the time I did that coding work! even I
don't believe it).

It completely boggles the mind why some programming teams even bother to
write applications the way they do. The user interface is completely
uninformative: the user often starts something, sees the hard drive
spinning with no notice/informational output. They don't deal with, or
even consider, exceptions or errors, certainly not gracefully.

Right now I am working with a $25,000 commercial piece of scientific
software that I would not pay $250 for as badly written as the user
interface is (not to mention it being poorly documented!). The user
interface is not only unintuitive and illogical (at least the Windows OS
is and has always been rather intuitive and logical!), it actually
TORTURES the user with its EEG-flatline approach to taking user input and
reporting the output. I think the purpose of this overpriced piece of
software was for the programmers (team) to express their contempt for the
user...to say to the user, "We spit on you!"

I really would love to know what goes through the minds of the members of
a programming team...as if they have so focused on a tree they are no
longer aware that it is part of the forest.

Okay, rant finished, you can resume your normal routine unless you have an
answer regarding the purpose of the MS Disk Defragmenter.



PG

 

[Guest]

Well if you knew how to run Defrag on youre pc the results would be
diffrent...
Some files are in use during the normal Defrag operation (page file,etc),by
editing or temporarly disabling them then running Defrag,you'd notice/see
more results,and alot more performance.But since you have all the answers
no use telling you the options of it all....As far as programing teams,if
you mean
microsoft as maybe compared to apple,apple mfg & sells that bunch together,
microsoft must write software for dozens if not hundreds of independent mfgs,
and make it all work...........

Other than:

1. wasting time
2. spinning the disk unnecessarily and adding wear-and-tear to it
3. taking up the space it does as an executable possibly with linked code
files

what purpose does the Microsoft Disk Defragmenter serve?

It leaves the files just as fragmented (perhaps even more?) when it
finishes as when it started (as shown by running the analysis before and
after).

I don't care if you do it in normal user startup mode.
I don't care if you do it in normal user safe mode.
I don't care if you do it as Administrator in safe mode with command
prompt.

I have been doing a bit of programming myself for the past 20 years,
starting with Applesoft BASIC on the ][e, then putzing around on the IBM
PC, and later trying to develop web form-based database interface even
before ASP and PHP were thoughts in the minds of their creators (my
employer actually paid me for the time I did that coding work! even I
don't believe it).

It completely boggles the mind why some programming teams even bother to
write applications the way they do. The user interface is completely
uninformative: the user often starts something, sees the hard drive
spinning with no notice/informational output. They don't deal with, or
even consider, exceptions or errors, certainly not gracefully.

Right now I am working with a $25,000 commercial piece of scientific
software that I would not pay $250 for as badly written as the user
interface is (not to mention it being poorly documented!). The user
interface is not only unintuitive and illogical (at least the Windows OS
is and has always been rather intuitive and logical!), it actually
TORTURES the user with its EEG-flatline approach to taking user input and
reporting the output. I think the purpose of this overpriced piece of
software was for the programmers (team) to express their contempt for the
user...to say to the user, "We spit on you!"

I really would love to know what goes through the minds of the members of
a programming team...as if they have so focused on a tree they are no
longer aware that it is part of the forest.

Okay, rant finished, you can resume your normal routine unless you have an
answer regarding the purpose of the MS Disk Defragmenter.



PG

 

[Patient Guy]

Well if you knew how to run Defrag on youre pc the results would be
diffrent...

Really now!?

Exactly what is there to know about running Disk Defragmenter other than
what command help gives you??

Are you trying to say that Microsoft actually only lets applications run
efficiently and correctly for those who have inside knowledge...who know
how to use hidden options or the secret password?

Some files are in use during the normal Defrag operation (page
file,etc),by editing or temporarly disabling them then running
Defrag,you'd notice/see more results,and alot more performance.

Maybe you would like to tell me why the Defrag Analysis says "Your disk
shoudl be defragmented" both BEFORE and AFTER running the
Defragmenter!!!???

Perhaps you have a sarcastic answer for that as well.

But then you are top poster, aren't you?

But
since you have all the answers no use telling you the options of it
all....As far as programing teams,if
you mean
microsoft as maybe compared to apple,apple mfg & sells that bunch
together, microsoft must write software for dozens if not hundreds of
independent mfgs, and make it all work...........

Other than:

1. wasting time
2. spinning the disk unnecessarily and adding wear-and-tear to it
3. taking up the space it does as an executable possibly with linked
code files

what purpose does the Microsoft Disk Defragmenter serve?

It leaves the files just as fragmented (perhaps even more?) when it
finishes as when it started (as shown by running the analysis before
and after).

I don't care if you do it in normal user startup mode.
I don't care if you do it in normal user safe mode.
I don't care if you do it as Administrator in safe mode with command
prompt.

I have been doing a bit of programming myself for the past 20 years,
starting with Applesoft BASIC on the ][e, then putzing around on the
IBM PC, and later trying to develop web form-based database interface
even before ASP and PHP were thoughts in the minds of their creators
(my employer actually paid me for the time I did that coding work!
even I don't believe it).

It completely boggles the mind why some programming teams even bother
to write applications the way they do. The user interface is
completely uninformative: the user often starts something, sees the
hard drive spinning with no notice/informational output. They don't
deal with, or even consider, exceptions or errors, certainly not
gracefully.

Right now I am working with a $25,000 commercial piece of scientific
software that I would not pay $250 for as badly written as the user
interface is (not to mention it being poorly documented!). The user
interface is not only unintuitive and illogical (at least the Windows
OS is and has always been rather intuitive and logical!), it actually
TORTURES the user with its EEG-flatline approach to taking user input
and reporting the output. I think the purpose of this overpriced
piece of software was for the programmers (team) to express their
contempt for the user...to say to the user, "We spit on you!"

I really would love to know what goes through the minds of the
members of a programming team...as if they have so focused on a tree
they are no longer aware that it is part of the forest.

Okay, rant finished, you can resume your normal routine unless you
have an answer regarding the purpose of the MS Disk Defragmenter.



PG

 

[Pennywise]

Other than:

1. wasting time
2. spinning the disk unnecessarily and adding wear-and-tear to it
3. taking up the space it does as an executable possibly with linked code
files

what purpose does the Microsoft Disk Defragmenter serve?

It leaves the files just as fragmented (perhaps even more?) when it
finishes as when it started (as shown by running the analysis before and
after).

I've always dual boot'd, so defrag'd a system drive from another OS. I
also run ATTRIB -R *,* /S on the drive before I do, it makes a
difference.
-I've been told this makes no difference (attrib) on an XP, but I see
it.

 

[Patient Guy]

I've always dual boot'd, so defrag'd a system drive from another OS. I
also run ATTRIB -R *,* /S on the drive before I do, it makes a
difference.
-I've been told this makes no difference (attrib) on an XP, but I see
it.

Thanks for that, I'll look into it. However, there could be some serious
consequences to removing or trying to remove the readonly attribute from
files.

If I were responsible for Defrag application development, I would probably
consider the fact that many fragmented files are marked read-only and do
one of the following:

1. Advise/report to the user after the analysis that the major amount (or
all) of the fragmented files are marked readonly and cannot be
defragmented

2. Defrag the readonly files anyway since the purpose of being readonly is
for other reasons.

3. Stop reporting to the user that the files are fragmented if they are
marked readonly...that is exclude all files from the analysis that are
prohibited from being defragmented for whatever reason, instead of
continually reporting to the user after a defrag that the disk should be
defragmented again.

But I guess that is a bit too user-friendly.

 

[Ayush]

Replied to [[email protected]]'s message {REPLY BELOW} :
-----------------------------------------------------------

I've always dual boot'd, so defrag'd a system drive from another OS. I
also run ATTRIB -R *,* /S on the drive before I do, it makes a
difference.
-I've been told this makes no difference (attrib) on an XP, but I see
it.

That should be ATTRIB -R *.* /s

--
Ayush [ Be ''?'' Happy ]

For any query, search - www.Google.com
Want to know about a term - http://en.wikipedia.org
Snip your long urls - http://snipurl.com/
Must have tool for OE - http://snipurl.com/quotefix

 

[Pennywise]

Replied to [[email protected]]'s message {REPLY BELOW} :
-----------------------------------------------------------

I've always dual boot'd, so defrag'd a system drive from another OS. I
also run ATTRIB -R *,* /S on the drive before I do, it makes a
difference.
-I've been told this makes no difference (attrib) on an XP, but I see
it.

That should be ATTRIB -R *.* /s

I wear glasses now, . look like , :}

 

[Guest]

So...are you saying the Microsoft Disk Defragmenter is a good thing?

Milt

 

[Mike Hall - MS MVP Windows Shell/User]

There may well be visible gaps in the visual blocks, but that is not to say
that fragmented files have not been 'sorted'..

You have the option of running other defragmenters.. Diskeeper or
PerfectDisk come to mind..

 

[Patient Guy]

So...are you saying the Microsoft Disk Defragmenter is a good thing?

Well, actually I am asking someone who loves the Defragmenter to tell me
it is a good thing and to persuade me that it is so. I guess you could
see it as sort of a challenge for someone wanting to defend the utility.
Indeed, in principle I could very well imagine a disk (file/folder)
defragmenting utility on any OS to be probably among the top 10 most
important applications of any system.

Other than:

1. wasting time
2. spinning the disk unnecessarily and adding wear-and-tear to it
3. taking up the space it does as an executable possibly with linked
code files

what purpose does the Microsoft Disk Defragmenter serve?

It leaves the files just as fragmented (perhaps even more?) when it
finishes as when it started (as shown by running the analysis before
and after).

I don't care if you do it in normal user startup mode.
I don't care if you do it in normal user safe mode.
I don't care if you do it as Administrator in safe mode with command
prompt.

I have been doing a bit of programming myself for the past 20 years,
starting with Applesoft BASIC on the ][e, then putzing around on the
IBM PC, and later trying to develop web form-based database interface
even before ASP and PHP were thoughts in the minds of their creators
(my employer actually paid me for the time I did that coding work!
even I don't believe it).

It completely boggles the mind why some programming teams even bother
to write applications the way they do. The user interface is
completely uninformative: the user often starts something, sees the
hard drive spinning with no notice/informational output. They don't
deal with, or even consider, exceptions or errors, certainly not
gracefully.

Right now I am working with a $25,000 commercial piece of scientific
software that I would not pay $250 for as badly written as the user
interface is (not to mention it being poorly documented!). The user
interface is not only unintuitive and illogical (at least the Windows
OS is and has always been rather intuitive and logical!), it actually
TORTURES the user with its EEG-flatline approach to taking user input
and reporting the output. I think the purpose of this overpriced
piece of software was for the programmers (team) to express their
contempt for the user...to say to the user, "We spit on you!"

I really would love to know what goes through the minds of the
members of a programming team...as if they have so focused on a tree
they are no longer aware that it is part of the forest.

Okay, rant finished, you can resume your normal routine unless you
have an answer regarding the purpose of the MS Disk Defragmenter.



PG

 

[Patient Guy]

There may well be visible gaps in the visual blocks, but that is not
to say that fragmented files have not been 'sorted'..

Well, I wasn't loaded in normal mode, but working from a command prompt in
safe mode logged in as Admin: I figured the defragmenter did not need to
compete with open apps or other things while open in normal mode or just
safe mode; thinking that too many things running at once actually made the
defragmenter forget the whole thing.

You have the option of running other defragmenters.. Diskeeper or
PerfectDisk come to mind..

I ran one disk defragmenting freebie off the net (Power something?) and it
was as useless as the MS bundled one.

I will look at your suggestions.

 

[Mike Hall - MS MVP Windows Shell/User]

XP defrag can work while you are doing other things.. not a problem..

Re. Diskeeper.. XP defrag is a 'child' of this program.. I use Diskeeper
and have for some while.. PerfectDisk gets good reviews from many, but I
have never tried it..

 

[Dudley Henriques]

I use PerfectDisk constantly and have used it for a long time. It allows an
offline defrag and a smart defrag that optomizes the system files as well as
defrags the drive. I've never had one issue with PerfectDisk and recommend
it highly.
Dudley Henriques
MVP/PC Games (Flight Simulator)

 

[Travis King]

If you don't like XP's disk defragmenter tool, just wait until you see
Windows Vista's disk defragmenter tool. It doesn't show a legend at all, it
does not show at all the progress of your defragmentation, and it does not
show you how much time is left either. It just says that it's defragmenting
your hard disk and it can take from anywhere from a few minutes to several
hours. How general... It also seems to take longer than XP's disk
defragmenter - hopefully it's doing a better job if it takes that long.

Other than:

1. wasting time
2. spinning the disk unnecessarily and adding wear-and-tear to it
3. taking up the space it does as an executable possibly with linked code
files

what purpose does the Microsoft Disk Defragmenter serve?

It leaves the files just as fragmented (perhaps even more?) when it
finishes as when it started (as shown by running the analysis before and
after).

I don't care if you do it in normal user startup mode.
I don't care if you do it in normal user safe mode.
I don't care if you do it as Administrator in safe mode with command
prompt.

I have been doing a bit of programming myself for the past 20 years,
starting with Applesoft BASIC on the ][e, then putzing around on the IBM
PC, and later trying to develop web form-based database interface even
before ASP and PHP were thoughts in the minds of their creators (my
employer actually paid me for the time I did that coding work! even I
don't believe it).

It completely boggles the mind why some programming teams even bother to
write applications the way they do. The user interface is completely
uninformative: the user often starts something, sees the hard drive
spinning with no notice/informational output. They don't deal with, or
even consider, exceptions or errors, certainly not gracefully.

Right now I am working with a $25,000 commercial piece of scientific
software that I would not pay $250 for as badly written as the user
interface is (not to mention it being poorly documented!). The user
interface is not only unintuitive and illogical (at least the Windows OS
is and has always been rather intuitive and logical!), it actually
TORTURES the user with its EEG-flatline approach to taking user input and
reporting the output. I think the purpose of this overpriced piece of
software was for the programmers (team) to express their contempt for the
user...to say to the user, "We spit on you!"

I really would love to know what goes through the minds of the members of
a programming team...as if they have so focused on a tree they are no
longer aware that it is part of the forest.

Okay, rant finished, you can resume your normal routine unless you have an
answer regarding the purpose of the MS Disk Defragmenter.



PG

 

[NoStop]

If you don't like XP's disk defragmenter tool, just wait until you see
Windows Vista's disk defragmenter tool. It doesn't show a legend at all,
it does not show at all the progress of your defragmentation, and it does
not
show you how much time is left either. It just says that it's
defragmenting your hard disk and it can take from anywhere from a few
minutes to several
hours. How general... It also seems to take longer than XP's disk
defragmenter - hopefully it's doing a better job if it takes that long.

You mean that after all these years Microsoft is still providing a file
system that requires defragging? Unbelievable that anyone would consider
this an innovative software company!

Cheers.

Other than:

1. wasting time
2. spinning the disk unnecessarily and adding wear-and-tear to it
3. taking up the space it does as an executable possibly with linked code
files

what purpose does the Microsoft Disk Defragmenter serve?

It leaves the files just as fragmented (perhaps even more?) when it
finishes as when it started (as shown by running the analysis before and
after).

I don't care if you do it in normal user startup mode.
I don't care if you do it in normal user safe mode.
I don't care if you do it as Administrator in safe mode with command
prompt.

I have been doing a bit of programming myself for the past 20 years,
starting with Applesoft BASIC on the ][e, then putzing around on the IBM
PC, and later trying to develop web form-based database interface even
before ASP and PHP were thoughts in the minds of their creators (my
employer actually paid me for the time I did that coding work! even I
don't believe it).

It completely boggles the mind why some programming teams even bother to
write applications the way they do. The user interface is completely
uninformative: the user often starts something, sees the hard drive
spinning with no notice/informational output. They don't deal with, or
even consider, exceptions or errors, certainly not gracefully.

Right now I am working with a $25,000 commercial piece of scientific
software that I would not pay $250 for as badly written as the user
interface is (not to mention it being poorly documented!). The user
interface is not only unintuitive and illogical (at least the Windows OS
is and has always been rather intuitive and logical!), it actually
TORTURES the user with its EEG-flatline approach to taking user input and
reporting the output. I think the purpose of this overpriced piece of
software was for the programmers (team) to express their contempt for the
user...to say to the user, "We spit on you!"

I really would love to know what goes through the minds of the members of
a programming team...as if they have so focused on a tree they are no
longer aware that it is part of the forest.

Okay, rant finished, you can resume your normal routine unless you have
an answer regarding the purpose of the MS Disk Defragmenter.



PG

--
Linux is ready for the desktop! More ready than Windoze XP.
http://tinyurl.com/ldm9d

"Computer users around the globe recognize that the most serious threats to
security exist because of inherent weaknesses in the Microsoft operating
system." McAfee