Maximum Recycle Bin size

  • Thread starter Thread starter cosmin
  • Start date Start date
cosmin said:
You know what, when I have a partition that's 48 GB and I set the Recycle
Bin to 50%, that's 24 GB. That's the size it should be, not 3.99 GB, not
without telling me anyway.
Click to expand...

But it DOES tell you. No matter what percentage you specify,
the "Space Reserved" setting never exceeds 3.99GB. You'll
find this setting on the individual drive page, not the global
page.

While it would be nice if the percentage actually reflected the
amount of space reserved for recycling, one must ask a fairly
obvious question: how does 100% work on partitions that are
3.99GB or less...
 
Micky said:
That's true for when a single file will not fit in the bin (regardless of
any
files already in the bin). But FIFO doesn't tell you when the recycle bin
has to remove the oldest files to make way for a new file. That's the
OP's main gripe, besides the 3.99GB limitation.
Click to expand...

I can appreciate that argument, but that still leaves the question of usage.
Generally speaking, people don't put files they want to keep in the Recycle
Bin. Perhaps the OP is looking for something like a Backup Bin, which the
recycle bin clearly is not. There is also a minor problem with logic of the
OP's complaint. He is upset over losing 29GB worth of files. He also says
the partition is 48 GB with the Recycle Bin set to 50% of that size, which
is only 24GB. So, even if we're talking about a bunch of small files, he
still loses 4GB of data if the Bin was working as he expected.

However, even working as expected, the problem gets much worse if he was
deleting larger files. Say he had only one 20GB file in his 24GB Recycle
Bin and he deletes a 5 GB file. The 24GB file is removed from the Bin.
What's the difference?

carl
 
R. McCarty said:
I believe that the Bin works in a "FIFO", First-in, First-out fashion.
Click to expand...

It does.
So if you drop new content into it and it's nearly full, it will purge
out the oldest data stored to make room for the new deletions.
Click to expand...

It does, but doesn't warn you. It only warns you when a file is
larger than the reserved space (regardless of any files currently
in the bin).
The
key name is "RecycleBinSize", but I'm not sure even that would
allow you to increase the maximum size.
Click to expand...

Regarding the registry hack:

[HKLM\software\microsoft\windows\currentversion\policies\explorer]
"RecycleBinSize"=DWORD:0000000a

The value is the percentage of the drive. The above therefore
represents 10% (the default). Values in excess of 00000064
force the bin to 100%, which would make little sense if the
percentage were a true percentage of the drive's space.

However, rather than allowing you to increase the recycle bin
beyond its 3.99GB limit, this setting actually DISABLES the
sliders, both globally and on individual drives. Probably not
surprising, given that it's a policy...

I believe the limit is due to the limits of 32-bit processing. The
largest integer value you can store within 32-bits is exactly
2^32 - 1 bytes (4GB less one byte), because the value zero
must also be represented. Hence the maximum is shown as
being 3.99GB rather than 4GB (4,294,967,295 bytes instead
of 4,294,967,296 bytes, to be precise).

To my way of thinking, the slider would make far more sense
if it represented a percentage of the maximum 3.99GB rather
than the full partition size. For instance, my 300GB drives only
have three options available to them:

0% (0.00GB)
1% (2.79GB)
2% (3.99GB)

And my 400GB drives have but two options (0GB or 3.99GB).

Personally I have no need for 2.79GB let alone 3.99GB, but I
also don't want to lose the recycle bin altogether (certainly not
on any of my work in progress drives). Just a few hundred
megabytes would more than suffice my needs, but it isn't
an option unless I repartition, which makes little sense given
how few drive letters I have available (B: P: Q: and R:).

Enough of my problems... hope this helps.
 
Vagabond Software said:
I can appreciate that argument, but that still leaves the question of
usage. Generally speaking, people don't put files they want to keep in the
Recycle Bin. Perhaps the OP is looking for something like a Backup Bin,
which the recycle bin clearly is not. There is also a minor problem with
logic of the OP's complaint. He is upset over losing 29GB worth of files.
He also says the partition is 48 GB with the Recycle Bin set to 50% of
that size, which is only 24GB. So, even if we're talking about a bunch of
small files, he still loses 4GB of data if the Bin was working as he
expected.

However, even working as expected, the problem gets much worse if he was
deleting larger files. Say he had only one 20GB file in his 24GB Recycle
Bin and he deletes a 5 GB file. The 24GB file is removed from the Bin.
What's the difference?
Click to expand...

The reality is that neither the 5GB file nor the 24GB file would go to
the recycle bin in the first place, and he WOULD have got a warning.
Since his files were clearly smaller than 3.99GB, he would have received
no warnings whatsoever. THAT's the difference.

MS must shoulder some blame since the slider's maximum setting clearly
doesn't represent 100% of the partition size as is clearly stated on the
global page. Only the individual page settings give any indication of the
actual size. But if the maximum 100% represented the maximum 3.99GB
then the percentage would make perfect sense but it doesn't even do that!

Are you seriously suggesting this the slider represents user-friendly
behaviour
and that the OP is at fault for not knowing any better? I think not. It's a
badly
designed UI that's long overdue an overhaul...
 
Micky said:
The reality is that neither the 5GB file nor the 24GB file would go to
the recycle bin in the first place, and he WOULD have got a warning.
Since his files were clearly smaller than 3.99GB, he would have received
no warnings whatsoever. THAT's the difference.

MS must shoulder some blame since the slider's maximum setting clearly
doesn't represent 100% of the partition size as is clearly stated on the
global page. Only the individual page settings give any indication of the
actual size. But if the maximum 100% represented the maximum 3.99GB
then the percentage would make perfect sense but it doesn't even do that!

Are you seriously suggesting this the slider represents user-friendly
behaviour
and that the OP is at fault for not knowing any better? I think not. It's
a badly
designed UI that's long overdue an overhaul...
Click to expand...

I'm not faulting the OP for believing his Recycle Bin was 50% of the size of
his partition. I'm somewhat confused about why the OP was thinking he would
be able to recover 29GB worth of files from a 24GB Recycle Bin.

carl
 
Vagabond Software said:
I'm not faulting the OP for believing his Recycle Bin was 50% of the size of his partition.
I'm somewhat confused about why the OP was thinking he would be able to recover 29GB worth
of files from a 24GB Recycle Bin.
Click to expand...

That's missing the point somewhat. Instead of losing an expected
5GB, he's actually lost 25GB. And I'm pretty sure the 29GB of
files included a lot of files he had backed up or could easily have
lived without. And if not, the importance of backups should be
well and truly driven home by now...

Ultimately, he's pissed off not because he lost a lot of data (that's
clearly his own fault), but because the dialogue is without a doubt
misleading.
 
R. McCarty said:
I can see your position, but Windows is designed for the "Typical or
Average" user. I think XP is now five years old, so at the time it (XP)
was on the drawing board a Bin of ~4 Gigabytes was fairly large.
Click to expand...

4GB was a small drive even when Windows 1998 was released (if I
recall, I was using 8s and 16s by the end of 98, and they weren't the
largest available). Consider that XP alone required 1.5GB for a full
install. MS Office and a game or two would soon blow the remaining
2.5GB away...

In any event, the dialogue relates to partition sizes, not disk sizes.
And while it was adequate for Windows 95 when a 4GB partition
would have been considered large (and where the dialogue would
actually have made some sense), it is long overdue an overhaul.
If the 3.99GB limit must remain, then why not let 100% represent
the full 3.99GB, rather than the somewhat misleading 100%
partition size it implies?
 
Micky said:
That's missing the point somewhat. Instead of losing an expected
5GB, he's actually lost 25GB. And I'm pretty sure the 29GB of
files included a lot of files he had backed up or could easily have
lived without. And if not, the importance of backups should be
well and truly driven home by now...

Ultimately, he's pissed off not because he lost a lot of data (that's
clearly his own fault), but because the dialogue is without a doubt
misleading.
Click to expand...

Ultimately, I agree. However, there is a lot of space in between what the
OP is pissed off about and what actually happened. Having a chron job that
automatically moves files to the Recycle Bin is high risk computing. Was he
wrong to assume the Recycle Bin was 24GB? Not at all. Was there a simple
way to know for sure the size of his Recycle Bin? Yes there was.

To this day, I occassionally check the modified dates of my backup files to
make sure they were written to last night. I also check their size to make
sure my backups are not exceeding the medium. Is there anything in the
backup or scheduler dialog that tells me to do this? No. I do it because I
actually care about being able to recover the data I'm backing up.

Having said all that, I concede the point on the Recycle Bin dialog. There
are many things I would change for workstation versions of Windows, but the
OP's inability to recover files from the Recycle Bin, which were
automatically placed there by a chron job scheduled by the OP, requires more
redress than a dialog change.

carl
 
Micky said:
news:%[email protected]...
Click to expand...
But it DOES tell you. No matter what percentage you specify,
the "Space Reserved" setting never exceeds 3.99GB. You'll
find this setting on the individual drive page, not the global
page.
Click to expand...

Yes, it does tell you. But let's be fair, you'd think if it takes effect on
ALL drives, that it would work correctly. That percentage slider on the
"Global Tab" is misleading. It should instead go up to 3.99 GB so that you
know that the Bin has limitations. This is most obviously code that is now
behind the times, way behind the times, kinda like the old 64 KB file size
limit for text files, but it's only beginning to sting now that drives have
gotten really big, and the chances of having huge folders with lots of small
files (mp3s, photos) have increased.

But FIFO doesn't tell you when the recycle bin
has to remove the oldest files to make way for a new file.
people don't put files they want to keep in the Recycle Bin.
Click to expand...

I dind't put them there to keep them. Although you'll have to agree, that
unlike life's mistakes, files should be recoverable, at least from the
Recycle Bin. The program worled as advertised, it moved files to the Bin, it
didn't delete them directly. The reason I chose for it to move old files to
the Bin was so that I could review them and move the ones I wanted to keep
back to the original location.
I'm somewhat confused about why the OP was thinking he would be able to
recover 29GB worth of files from a 24GB Recycle Bin.
Click to expand...

That's not relevant here. We're not discussing whether it's good to have
backups or not, and besides the "check for files older than" program
(Delenda if you're interested) worked as advertised. It wasn't possible for
me to know exactly how many files were going to be deleted. Besides suppose
I would have only deleted 5 GB. I still would have lost 1 GB because of
Microsoft hiding this limitation thinking that most people wouldn't notice
(and I'm sure that 90% percent of people didn't have the opportunity to
notice). You're not seriously gonna tell me that I'd be the one to blame in
that case?

Oh, and for the poster who said that
I can see your position, but Windows is designed for the "Typical or
Average" user.
Click to expand...

Well, he'd have to be Re-eee-eally average to have a drive that small. Even
when XP came out, setting the Recycle Bin to 50% would have landed you in
the same trouble. Plus the "Typical or Average" user tends to delete files
and very rarely empty the Recycle Bin.
 
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