map network drive - password error - logistics

J

Jim Lewandowski

This is my first real exposure troubleshooting anything related to mapping of network
drives and/or folders so PLEASE be complete in your answer.

Small business

"A" Win 2000 PC (desktop)
"B" Win 2000 PC (desktop)
"C" Win XP Pro PC (laptop)


Why can't you map a WHOLE server rather than having to map only the FOLDERS. For example,
on PC "A", when in Windows Explorer, if you double-click on a network drive/resource, in
the "title/address" bar, it will say something like \\server\folderA. I can overtype and
delete the "folderA" part and I WILL then get a list of ALL the folders under \\server.
Is there anyway to map the whole shebang?


From "C" (XP Pro) laptop, whenever we try to map any network resource (like trying to map
the "A" desktop PC), a user/password window pops up that no matter what user/pw we enter,
it just poops right back up.

Example:

userid: joe.lastname
password: joepassword

When popup window comes BACK, it will have:

userid: joelaptop.joe.lastname (joelaptop has been appended to the front)
password: *******

When one is entering a password here, is it the userid/password for the LAPTOP ("C") or is
it for the DESTINATION of what we're trying to map FROM laptop ("C")?

I've seen references to doing some net use command but, as usual, incomplete information
explaining EXACTLY WHAT are we accomplishing with said command. Is there some "caching"
problem here that the net use is used to rectify?

What are the rules for user/password with respect to who can talk to what network PCs,
etc? Naming conventions.

Are there options that allow one PC to "see" another PC as a "network place"? IOW, a
sharing specification from one PC that by default doesn't allow ALL PCs to see his data?

JL
 
J

Jim Lewandowski

Additional.

"C" Laptop CAN see server folders but can NOT see "B" desktop (as AN example) because of
the userid/password window we can't get past.

JL
 
D

Doug Sherman [MVP]

I don't understand the last 4 questions, but the answers to the first 2 are:

1. No. You cannot map a drive to a server; you can only map to a share.
If you want to 'see' all the shared resources on a server, click Start/Run
\\ServerName ENTER, or create a shortcut that points to \\ServerName, or
use My Network Places.

2. With classic file sharing (Windows 2000), when you connect to a remote
computer in a workgroup environment, you must provide credentials which can
be authenticated on the remote machine. By default the machine you are
connecting from provides the user name and password used to log onto that
machine. Unless the remote machine has a matching account and that account
has permission to access the shared resource, access will be denied. The
conventional way to deal with this is to add a user account on the remote
machine which has the same user name and password as the user name and
password used to log onto the machine you are connecting from. You do not
need to log onto the remote machine with this account, just create it.
Instead you could use:

\\RemoteComputerName /user:RemoteComputerName\RemoteUserAccount

When connecting to an XP machine this may not be an issue because XP
supports something called Simple File Sharing which allows remote users to
authenticate as guests. This may or may not be enabled on your XP Pro
machine.

Doug Sherman
MCSE, MCSA, MCP+I, MVP
 
J

Jim Lewandowski

Doug Sherman said:
I don't understand the last 4 questions, but the answers to the first 2 are:

1. No. You cannot map a drive to a server; you can only map to a share.
If you want to 'see' all the shared resources on a server, click Start/Run
\\ServerName ENTER, or create a shortcut that points to \\ServerName, or
use My Network Places.

***
Why would this be? Isn't a little cumbersome to only be able to map to folders ON a
server rather than just the "root" of the server?

2. With classic file sharing (Windows 2000), when you connect to a remote
computer in a workgroup environment, you must provide credentials which can
be authenticated on the remote machine. By default the machine you are
connecting from provides the user name and password used to log onto that
machine. Unless the remote machine has a matching account and that account
has permission to access the shared resource, access will be denied.

***
IIRC, both "B" (win 2000) and "C" (XP pro laptop) have the same username and password for
BOTH machines. Yet, we always get denied on the pw screen.

Does machine "B" have to do anything special to allow "C" to see him from a MANUAL
security or SHARING options standpoint?


The
conventional way to deal with this is to add a user account on the remote
machine which has the same user name and password as the user name and
password used to log onto the machine you are connecting from. You do not
need to log onto the remote machine with this account, just create it.
Instead you could use:

\\RemoteComputerName /user:RemoteComputerName\RemoteUserAccount

***
What do you mean "you could use" the above? In what context?

When connecting to an XP machine this may not be an issue because XP
supports something called Simple File Sharing which allows remote users to
authenticate as guests. This may or may not be enabled on your XP Pro
machine.

***
I'm aware of guest accounts but without knowing HOW this works, it doesn't help.

JL
 
J

Jim Lewandowski

IIRC, "A" CAN see "B" (both Win 2000). Why can't "C"? IOW, "A" is already mapped (before
I ever got involved in this) to allow it to see desktop "B".

JL
 
D

Doug Sherman [MVP]

"Why would this be? Isn't a little cumbersome to only be able to map to
folders ON a
server rather than just the "root" of the server?"

Drives are concerned with data storage - if you mapped drive X: to a server
instead of a share and you saved data to drive X: ................... where
would it go? If you want to map a drive to the 'root' of a server, share
the entire C: drive - \\Server\C.

"IIRC, both "B" (win 2000) and "C" (XP pro laptop) have the same username
and password for
BOTH machines. Yet, we always get denied on the pw screen.

Does machine "B" have to do anything special to allow "C" to see him from a
MANUAL
security or SHARING options standpoint?"

- No, provided the default settings are in effect.

Try:

On the Win2k machine, go to Administrative Tools/Local Security Policy -
Expand local Policies and click on User Rights Assignment. Double click on
Access this computer from the network - add the user account even if
Everyone is already listed. Make sure no users or groups are listed in Deny
access from the network.

Add the user to the permissions on the Share even if Everyone is already
listed.

Check firewalls and/or any other third party security software. This kind
of software can easily block file and printer sharing and usually does so by
default.

Troubleshooting the XP machine varies depending on whether SFS is enabled:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/304040/en-us

"What do you mean "you could use" the above? In what context?"

Start/Run \\RemoteComputerName /user:RemoteComputerName\RemoteUserAccount
ENTER

Or - net use X: \\RemoteComputerName\ShareName
/user:RemoteComputerName\RemoteUserAccount

Doug Sherman
MCSE, MCSA, MCP+I, MVP
 
J

Jim Lewandowski

Doug Sherman said:
"Why would this be? Isn't a little cumbersome to only be able to map to
folders ON a
server rather than just the "root" of the server?"

Drives are concerned with data storage - if you mapped drive X: to a server
instead of a share and you saved data to drive X: ................... where
would it go?

***
Mapped network drive X: is to data storage as hard drive C: is. IOW, if you save to C:,
it goes to the root directory. Do servers have a "root directory"?


If you want to map a drive to the 'root' of a server, share
the entire C: drive - \\Server\C.

***
I would think the above nomenclature would point to a FOLDER named C, not a whole drive.

"IIRC, both "B" (win 2000) and "C" (XP pro laptop) have the same username
and password for
BOTH machines. Yet, we always get denied on the pw screen.

Does machine "B" have to do anything special to allow "C" to see him from a
MANUAL
security or SHARING options standpoint?"

- No, provided the default settings are in effect.

Try:

On the Win2k machine, go to Administrative Tools/Local Security Policy -
Expand local Policies and click on User Rights Assignment. Double click on
Access this computer from the network - add the user account even if
Everyone is already listed. Make sure no users or groups are listed in Deny
access from the network.

***
Can you list or provide a reference for all the commands/utilities that can used at each
workstation/laptop to more fully understand what's going on?

Add the user to the permissions on the Share even if Everyone is already
listed.

Check firewalls and/or any other third party security software. This kind
of software can easily block file and printer sharing and usually does so by
default.

Troubleshooting the XP machine varies depending on whether SFS is enabled:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/304040/en-us

"What do you mean "you could use" the above? In what context?"

Start/Run \\RemoteComputerName /user:RemoteComputerName\RemoteUserAccount
ENTER

Or - net use X: \\RemoteComputerName\ShareName
/user:RemoteComputerName\RemoteUserAccount

***
What do the above 2 commands SPECIFICALLY DO?

JL
 
D

Doug Sherman [MVP]

"Do servers have a "root directory"?"

Not in the sense that you mean it. Drives have a root. In Windows it is
possible to share an entire drive as distinguished from a folder. You can
also share a printer - all shared resources must have share name. The
convention would be to share the C: drive with a share name of C. If you
wanted to call it something else, you could do so. Although you could share
a folder or a printer with a share name of C, this sounds like a bad idea;
and I think almost all people would assume that a share called C is a shared
drive.

Also, with classic file sharing all real drives have administrative shares
by default, but the shares are hidden. If you log on as an administrator,
you should be able to connect to \\Server\C$

"Can you list or provide a reference for all the commands/utilities that can
used at each
workstation/laptop to more fully understand what's going on?"

No, this is not possible; however, there are many excellent resources
available both online and in your local bookstore. I suspect that someone -
probably not you - has installed software or changed settings on these
machines which alters their default behavior. As a result it is extremely
difficult to diagnose the issue. For Win2k, you could start here:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/301281/EN-US/


"What do the above 2 commands SPECIFICALLY DO?"

The first one opens an explorer window and displays the shared resources on
RemoteComputerName.

The second maps drive X: to ShareName on RemoteComputerName

Doug Sherman
MCSE, MCSA, MCP+I, MVP
 
J

JL

I'm at a total loss. I've read an MVP's networking page but have no
idea what NN things need to be done to allow one PC to see another.

Net use this, net user that, guest accounts, passwords, authentication,
etc. Nothing in event viewer gives a clue as to WHY access isn't
allowed from "C" (Laptop).

I give.

JL
 
D

Doug Sherman [MVP]

First of all, forget about mapping drives for now - it doesn't sound like
this is what you really want anyway and it introduces variables which
interfere with diagnosing file and printer sharing.

What happens if on Computer C you click Start/Run \\NameofComputerB ?

If you get an error mesage, try \\IPaddressofComputerB. If you get an
Explorer Window showing shared resources, what happens if you double click
on one of them?

If you get a popup login screen, then: Most likely, the user account does
not have the right to access Computer B over the network, and/or the user
account does not have permission to access the share, and/or you are running
third party security software which is blocking access. The first 2 are
easily fixed; the last requires uninstall or product specific
reconfiguration.

Doug Sherman
MCSE, MCSA, MCP+I, MVP
 
J

Jim Lewandowski

Doug Sherman said:
First of all, forget about mapping drives for now - it doesn't sound like
this is what you really want anyway and it introduces variables which
interfere with diagnosing file and printer sharing.

***
When one PC accesses another PC, isn't that, in affect, "mapping a network drive" (i.e.
"B"'s hard drive)?

What happens if on Computer C you click Start/Run \\NameofComputerB ?

***
I believe I tried this but can't remember the results.

If you get an error mesage, try \\IPaddressofComputerB. If you get an
Explorer Window showing shared resources, what happens if you double click
on one of them?

***
You're still using terms that make no sense to me. What is a "shared resource"? Is that
synonymous with a resource that can be accessed over the network/LAN?

Even though I have "A" workstation (2K) to use as a guide, from doing net user or net use
commands or looking at how things are working for them, I can NOT translate this to "C"
(XP). In fact, we just merged 2 partitions on "C" laptop and now, on the Ctrl-Alt-Del
logon screen you can NO LONGER specify which "domain"?? (the 3rd enterable/pulldown menu
no longer shows). So, we've now lost the ability to even TRY to access "B" workstation as
it's "folder" tree is no longer viewable from "C". Your guess is as good as mine.

If you get a popup login screen, then: Most likely, the user account does
not have the right to access Computer B over the network, and/or the user
account does not have permission to access the share, and/or you are running
third party security software which is blocking access. The first 2 are
easily fixed; the last requires uninstall or product specific
reconfiguration.

***
"B" has Symantec AV 10.0.
"C" has Norton AV.

How do these permissions work? Where are they adminstered FROM? The questions are
endless. I would think someone would have a website with EXAMPLES of how to make
workstations talk to each other. Instead, what you get, as usual, is a bunch of "do these
steps" to do X (and either no info on what to do when it DOESN'T work) function. The
people's website are too "standalone" and generic. Specific examples are far easier to
intuit MORE information than what's there if you can see how these things INTERACT.

JL
 
D

Doug Sherman [MVP]

"When one PC accesses another PC, isn't that, in affect, "mapping a network
drive" (i.e.
"B"'s hard drive)?"

No.

"What is a "shared resource"?"

Shared resource = a shared drive, folder, or printer.

"In fact, we just merged 2 partitions on "C" laptop and now, on the
Ctrl-Alt-Del
logon screen you can NO LONGER specify which "domain"??"

This is the first mention you have made of a domain. If all machines are
Win2kPro and XP Pro, you do not have a domain on this network. If the
machines are joined to some other domain, you should join them to a common
workgroup instead. This may well be the cause of your problem.

"How do these permissions work? Where are they adminstered FROM?"

I believe these questions are adequately answered in the article I cited in
my 05/18/06 1:49 post.

Doug Sherman
MCSE, MCSA, MCP+I, MVP
 
J

Jim Lewandowski

Doug Sherman said:
"When one PC accesses another PC, isn't that, in affect, "mapping a network
drive" (i.e.
"B"'s hard drive)?"

No.

"What is a "shared resource"?"

Shared resource = a shared drive, folder, or printer.

"In fact, we just merged 2 partitions on "C" laptop and now, on the
Ctrl-Alt-Del
logon screen you can NO LONGER specify which "domain"??"

This is the first mention you have made of a domain. If all machines are
Win2kPro and XP Pro, you do not have a domain on this network.

***
The 3rd "domain" pulldown menu has CORP as one (maybe the only one) entry. This has
disappeared for laptop "C".

Underneath the "network resources" (+) tree, there were 2 folders, CORP and OFFICE. I'd
like to understand how this tree gets built. How does the system know which "folders" are
underneath the network resources tree branch/entry?


If the
machines are joined to some other domain, you should join them to a common
workgroup instead. This may well be the cause of your problem.

***
If you look at "user accounts" via Control Panel, most are CORP IIRC. Others may be
Administrator or something.

"How do these permissions work? Where are they adminstered FROM?"

I believe these questions are adequately answered in the article I cited in
my 05/18/06 1:49 post.

***
I'll try reading again.

JL
 
D

Doug Sherman [MVP]

"Underneath the "network resources" (+) tree, there were 2 folders, CORP and
OFFICE. I'd
like to understand how this tree gets built. How does the system know which
"folders" are
underneath the network resources tree branch/entry?"

Sorry, I am not familiar with the "network resources" tree. If you are
talking about My Network Places, it is populated by the browser service.
Corp and Office are probably domains or workgroups.

You really need to determine whether these machines are joined to a domain.
In XP, right click on My Computer and select Properties. Click the Computer
Name tab and the Change button.

In Win2k right click on My Computer and select Properties. Click the
Network Identification tab and the Properties button.

If you log onto a domain when there is no domain controller available, you
log on with cached credentials. Without a domain controler there is no way
for other machines to authenticate these credentials and access to shared
resources becomes problematic.

Doug Sherman
MCSE, MCSA, MCP+I, MVP
 

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