Make Parallell Win XP Pro Install Bootable

W

wrt

My system has two hard drives.

The first has a Win XP Pro OS on the front of the drive, the letter C:
is assigned to this installation.

The second hard drive has another installation of Win XP Pro on the
front of it, the letter F: is assigned to this installation.
I made the F: installation after the C: installation; therefore the boot
related files are within the C: installation (e.g. boot.ini, ntdlr,
ntdetect.com, etc.)

I have imaged the F: installation and tweaked to my liking. What I
would like to do now is get rid of the C: installation but I realize
that my system won't boot if I do.

What I am trying to figure out is what I need to do to make the F:
installation completely self-sufficient (in other words, bootable on its
own).

Suppose I just wiped out the C: drive and rebooted using my slipstreamed
Win XP Pro-sp2, then logged into the Recovery Console and ...what?

Would I have to recreate a MBR?

I would have to use bootcfg to make a boot.ini file

But none of the above get ntdlr, ntdetect.com or other boot dependent
files onto my F: installation. Is it possible to simply copy the boot
dependent files from C: to F: and then use the Recovery Console to fix
the boot.ini file.

Do I have to physically change the hard drive which has the F: partition
to my Master drive?
Do I have to flag the F: partition as the active portion (quite sure the
answer is, yes) and if so when do I do this?

What I have located and read thus far in regard to all of this has left
me with a vague understanding of what I have to do; but I am hoping to
get some tailored guidance. Thanks
 
P

Pegasus \(MVP\)

wrt said:
My system has two hard drives.

The first has a Win XP Pro OS on the front of the drive, the letter C:
is assigned to this installation.

The second hard drive has another installation of Win XP Pro on the
front of it, the letter F: is assigned to this installation.
I made the F: installation after the C: installation; therefore the boot
related files are within the C: installation (e.g. boot.ini, ntdlr,
ntdetect.com, etc.)

I have imaged the F: installation and tweaked to my liking. What I
would like to do now is get rid of the C: installation but I realize
that my system won't boot if I do.

What I am trying to figure out is what I need to do to make the F:
installation completely self-sufficient (in other words, bootable on its
own).

Suppose I just wiped out the C: drive and rebooted using my slipstreamed
Win XP Pro-sp2, then logged into the Recovery Console and ...what?

Would I have to recreate a MBR?

I would have to use bootcfg to make a boot.ini file

But none of the above get ntdlr, ntdetect.com or other boot dependent
files onto my F: installation. Is it possible to simply copy the boot
dependent files from C: to F: and then use the Recovery Console to fix
the boot.ini file.

Do I have to physically change the hard drive which has the F: partition
to my Master drive?
Do I have to flag the F: partition as the active portion (quite sure the
answer is, yes) and if so when do I do this?

What I have located and read thus far in regard to all of this has left
me with a vague understanding of what I have to do; but I am hoping to
get some tailored guidance. Thanks

If your WinXP installation saw the light of the day on drive F:
then this is where it has to remain. This is the penalty you pay
for using the Windows native boot manager instead of a boot
manager that manages each OS on its own, e.g. XOSL.

The best you can do is to delete everything from drive C:
except for the following files:
c:\ntldr
c:\ntdetect.com
c:\boot.ini

You can now use drive C: as your data disk while
reserving drive F: for WinXP.
 
T

Timothy Daniels

wrt said:
My system has two hard drives.

The first has a Win XP Pro OS on the front of the drive,
the letter C: is assigned to this installation.

The second hard drive has another installation of
Win XP Pro on the front of it, the letter F: is assigned
to this installation. I made the F: installation after the
C: installation; therefore the boot related files are within
the C: installation (e.g. boot.ini, ntdlr, ntdetect.com, etc.)


Are you saying that when you look for F:\boot.ini, F:\ntldr,
F:\ntdetect.com, there is nothing there? If they are there,
you need an MBR on the hard drive and the partition
that contains those boot.ini, ntldr and ntdetect.com files
to be marked "active". The OS itself can be on *any*
primary partition as long as the boot.ini file designates
that partition at boot time (by default or by keyboard input)
to be the source of the OS. BTW, when you installed
WinXP on the F: drive, was C: running and visible to it?

*TimDaniels*
 
W

wrt

Are you saying that when you look for F:\boot.ini, F:\ntldr,
F:\ntdetect.com, there is nothing there? If they are there,
you need an MBR on the hard drive and the partition
that contains those boot.ini, ntldr and ntdetect.com files
to be marked "active". The OS itself can be on *any*
primary partition as long as the boot.ini file designates
that partition at boot time (by default or by keyboard input)
to be the source of the OS. BTW, when you installed
WinXP on the F: drive, was C: running and visible to it?

*TimDaniels*
Yes C: was visible to the F: installation (I supposed if I had hidden
the C: partition at the time of installing the parallel F: WinXP I would
be at least a step or two ahead of where I am now)

Apparently since C: was visible to the F: installation then
modifications to the C:boot.ini file were made sufficient to boot into
the F: installation.

It is correct that none of the boot dependent files are in the F:
installation [except those found in windows/system and windows/system32
- I am quite sure that these (e.g., Ntoskrnl.exe, Hal.dll, System
registry file - systemroot\System32\Config\System, Device drivers -
systemroot\System32\Drivers)are unique to to F: installation; but
boot.ini, ntldr, ntdetect.com are "borrowed" from C:. Hence, my dilemma
and question.

Can I simply copy those files from C: to F: (since F: is already booting
from them) or does XP require the boot files to be in "C:"?

I recognize that if there is a solution at all it will likely require
some configuring via Recovery Console.
 
T

Timothy Daniels

wrt said:
(e-mail address removed) says...
Are you saying that when you look for F:\boot.ini, F:\ntldr,
F:\ntdetect.com, there is nothing there? If they are there,
you need an MBR on the hard drive and the partition
that contains those boot.ini, ntldr and ntdetect.com files
to be marked "active". The OS itself can be on *any*
primary partition as long as the boot.ini file designates
that partition at boot time (by default or by keyboard input)
to be the source of the OS. BTW, when you installed
WinXP on the F: drive, was C: running and visible to it?

*TimDaniels*
Yes C: was visible to the F: installation (I supposed if
I had hidden the C: partition at the time of installing the
parallel F: WinXP I would be at least a step or two ahead
of where I am now)

Apparently since C: was visible to the F: installation then
modifications to the C:boot.ini file were made sufficient
to boot into the F: installation.

It is correct that none of the boot dependent files are in the F:
installation [except those found in windows/system and
windows/system32 - I am quite sure that these (e.g.,
Ntoskrnl.exe, Hal.dll, System registry file - systemroot\
System32\Config\System, Device drivers -
systemroot\System32\Drivers)are unique to to F: installation;
but boot.ini, ntldr, ntdetect.com are "borrowed" from C:.
Hence, my dilemma and question.

Can I simply copy those files from C: to F: (since F: is already
booting from them) or does XP require the boot files to be in "C:"?

I recognize that if there is a solution at all it will likely require
some configuring via Recovery Console.


Disclaimer: I'm still learning just like you.

Now then, for an independently bootable hard drive, there
must be boot.ini, ntldr, and (possibly) ntdetect.com on the
active partition just under the root of the file system. I
believe you can just copy them over from C: to F: . You're
on your own on how to recreate or copy the MBR. (Please
let me know how you solve this one. For all I know, it
may be trivial.)

For a single-boot OS, the boot.ini file is quite simple.
It should something look like this:

[boot loader]
timeout=0
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="New WinXP" /fastdetect

This says that 0 seconds will be given for you to make up
your mind on which OS to load, which in this case is the
one option (arbitrarily called "New WinXP" or whatever you
want) that is identical to the default. Since you won't have
time to input a preference, the default will load.

rdisk(0) means to load the system on HD at relative position 0
to the start of the boot sequence (in this case, your 1st HD).

partition(1) means to load the system found on partition 1
(i.e. the 1st partition).

WINDOWS means that the system will be found in folder
named WINDOWS under the file system root - to be given
the name C.

What you have now in boot.ini probably looks something
like this, which is for a dual-booted system:

[boot loader]
timeout=20
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Old WinXP in 1st HD" /fastdetect
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(1)\WINDOWS="New WinXP in 2nd HD" /fastdetect

With the 1st HD at the start of the boot sequence, this boot.ini
file will be accessed, and it says that the old WinXP is on the
1st partition of the 1st HD, and that the new WinXP is on the
1st partition of the 2nd HD. Keyboard input from you will then
select which OS boots, and you will have 20 seconds to make
up your mind - after which the default will boot if you don't choose.

Just pare this version of boot.ini down to match the boot.ini
above for a single-boot OS.

The boot procedure runs roughly this way:

The BIOS has the boot sequence for the HDs, and it
passes control to the ntldr in the active partition of the
1st HD in the boot sequence. ntldr looks at the boot.ini
file at its own level in the file structure, and the boot.ini
file (by default or by keyboard input) tells in which partition
the OS is (which may be on the same HD or on another
HD). ntldr then loads the OS from that partition, and the
loaded OS calls itself the "C:" drive and names other
partitions that it sees with other letters of the alphabet.

Implied by the above paragraph are two methods to do
a dual-boot: By adjusting the boot sequence in the BIOS,
or by adding a line to boot.ini to give an option at
boot time (or both).

Not directly applicable to your situation, but an interesting link
nontheless, are these directions for removing on OS of a
dual-booted system:
http://michaelstevenstech.com/xpfaq.html#Remove

*TimDaniels*
 
W

wrt

wrt said:
(e-mail address removed) says...
:
My system has two hard drives.

The first has a Win XP Pro OS on the front of the drive,
the letter C: is assigned to this installation.

The second hard drive has another installation of
Win XP Pro on the front of it, the letter F: is assigned
to this installation. I made the F: installation after the
C: installation; therefore the boot related files are within
the C: installation (e.g. boot.ini, ntdlr, ntdetect.com, etc.)


Are you saying that when you look for F:\boot.ini, F:\ntldr,
F:\ntdetect.com, there is nothing there? If they are there,
you need an MBR on the hard drive and the partition
that contains those boot.ini, ntldr and ntdetect.com files
to be marked "active". The OS itself can be on *any*
primary partition as long as the boot.ini file designates
that partition at boot time (by default or by keyboard input)
to be the source of the OS. BTW, when you installed
WinXP on the F: drive, was C: running and visible to it?

*TimDaniels*
Yes C: was visible to the F: installation (I supposed if
I had hidden the C: partition at the time of installing the
parallel F: WinXP I would be at least a step or two ahead
of where I am now)

Apparently since C: was visible to the F: installation then
modifications to the C:boot.ini file were made sufficient
to boot into the F: installation.

It is correct that none of the boot dependent files are in the F:
installation [except those found in windows/system and
windows/system32 - I am quite sure that these (e.g.,
Ntoskrnl.exe, Hal.dll, System registry file - systemroot\
System32\Config\System, Device drivers -
systemroot\System32\Drivers)are unique to to F: installation;
but boot.ini, ntldr, ntdetect.com are "borrowed" from C:.
Hence, my dilemma and question.

Can I simply copy those files from C: to F: (since F: is already
booting from them) or does XP require the boot files to be in "C:"?

I recognize that if there is a solution at all it will likely require
some configuring via Recovery Console.


Well "Pegasus" doesn't hesitate to say:

"The best you can do is to delete everything from drive C:
except for the following files:
c:\ntldr
c:\ntdetect.com
c:\boot.ini

You can now use drive C: as your data disk while
reserving drive F: for WinXP."

As an "MVP" his input must be respected.

But I still wonder what the critical issue is.

1) Is it that WinXP must have a "C" drive in order to run at all? In
other words, there is no way to direct the boot process to F: or at
least the partition where F: resides even if this means that F: will be
assigned the letter C:. I don't care if my letters are changed as I can
do a drive map with Partition Magic and reassign drive letters and/or
manually change them in the various .ini files etc.

2) Or, does the critical issue have to do with the construction of the
boot dependent files during installation. In other words, when I
installed WinXP on F: while C: was visible all of this was taken into
account when boot.ini was created (or altered) and other system (or
specifically "boot") dependent files were created (or altered) in a
unique way for this scenario; therefore, to dramatically change the
scenario (e.g. getting rid of C) renders all or several of the boot
dependent files unusable?

If the only boot dependent file effected by the Parallel installation of
the OS on F: is boot.ini, I can't see how this would be a critical issue
since boot.ini is so simple to edit.

If "Pegasus" is around I would appreciate some remarks about what the
critical issues are which make it impossible. I don't doubt his
diagnosis; but, not understanding how this all works leaves me still
wondering.
 
W

wrt

wrt said:
(e-mail address removed) says...
:
My system has two hard drives.

The first has a Win XP Pro OS on the front of the drive,
the letter C: is assigned to this installation.

The second hard drive has another installation of
Win XP Pro on the front of it, the letter F: is assigned
to this installation. I made the F: installation after the
C: installation; therefore the boot related files are within
the C: installation (e.g. boot.ini, ntdlr, ntdetect.com, etc.)


Are you saying that when you look for F:\boot.ini, F:\ntldr,
F:\ntdetect.com, there is nothing there? If they are there,
you need an MBR on the hard drive and the partition
that contains those boot.ini, ntldr and ntdetect.com files
to be marked "active". The OS itself can be on *any*
primary partition as long as the boot.ini file designates
that partition at boot time (by default or by keyboard input)
to be the source of the OS. BTW, when you installed
WinXP on the F: drive, was C: running and visible to it?

*TimDaniels*
Yes C: was visible to the F: installation (I supposed if
I had hidden the C: partition at the time of installing the
parallel F: WinXP I would be at least a step or two ahead
of where I am now)

Apparently since C: was visible to the F: installation then
modifications to the C:boot.ini file were made sufficient
to boot into the F: installation.

It is correct that none of the boot dependent files are in the F:
installation [except those found in windows/system and
windows/system32 - I am quite sure that these (e.g.,
Ntoskrnl.exe, Hal.dll, System registry file - systemroot\
System32\Config\System, Device drivers -
systemroot\System32\Drivers)are unique to to F: installation;
but boot.ini, ntldr, ntdetect.com are "borrowed" from C:.
Hence, my dilemma and question.

Can I simply copy those files from C: to F: (since F: is already
booting from them) or does XP require the boot files to be in "C:"?

I recognize that if there is a solution at all it will likely require
some configuring via Recovery Console.


Well "Pegasus" doesn't hesitate to say:

"The best you can do is to delete everything from drive C:
except for the following files:
c:\ntldr
c:\ntdetect.com
c:\boot.ini

You can now use drive C: as your data disk while
reserving drive F: for WinXP."

As an "MVP" his input must be respected.

But I still wonder what the critical issue is.

1) Is it that WinXP must have a "C" drive in order to run at all? In
other words, there is no way to direct the boot process to F: or at
least the partition where F: resides even if this means that F: will be
assigned the letter C:. I don't care if my letters are changed as I can
do a drive map with Partition Magic and reassign drive letters and/or
manually change them in the various .ini files etc.

2) Or, does the critical issue have to do with the construction of the
boot dependent files during installation. In other words, when I
installed WinXP on F: while C: was visible all of this was taken into
account when boot.ini was created (or altered) and other system (or
specifically "boot") dependent files were created (or altered) in a
unique way for this scenario; therefore, to dramatically change the
scenario (e.g. getting rid of C) renders all or several of the boot
dependent files unusable?

If the only boot dependent file effected by the Parallel installation of
the OS on F: is boot.ini, I can't see how this would be a critical issue
since boot.ini is so simple to edit.

If "Pegasus" is around I would appreciate some remarks about what the
critical issues are which make it impossible. I don't doubt his
diagnosis; but, not understanding how this all works leaves me still
wondering.
 
W

wrt

Well "Pegasus" doesn't hesitate to say:

"The best you can do is to delete everything from drive C:
except for the following files:
c:\ntldr
c:\ntdetect.com
c:\boot.ini

You can now use drive C: as your data disk while
reserving drive F: for WinXP."

As an "MVP" his input must be respected.

But I still wonder what the critical issue is.

1) Is it that WinXP must have a "C" drive in order to run
at all? In other words, there is no way to direct the boot
process to F: or at east the partition where F: resides
even if this means that F: will be assigned the letter C:.
I don't care if my letters are changed as I can do a drive
map with Partition Magic and reassign drive letters and/or
manually change them in the various .ini files etc.

2) Or, does the critical issue have to do with the
construction of the boot dependent files during
installation. In other words, when I installed WinXP on F:
while C: was visible all of this was taken into account
when boot.ini was created (or altered) and other system (or
specifically "boot") dependent files were created (or
altered) in a unique way for this scenario; therefore, to
dramatically change the scenario (e.g. getting rid of C)
renders all or several of the boot dependent files unusable?

If the only boot dependent file effected by the Parallel
installation of the OS on F: is boot.ini, I can't see how
this would be a critical issue since boot.ini is so simple
to edit.

If "Pegasus" is around I would appreciate some remarks
about what the critical issues are which make it
impossible. I don't doubt his diagnosis; but, not
understanding how this all works leaves me still
wondering.
 
T

Timothy Daniels

Well "Pegasus" doesn't hesitate to say:

"The best you can do is to delete everything from drive C:
except for the following files:
c:\ntldr
c:\ntdetect.com
c:\boot.ini

You can now use drive C: as your data disk while
reserving drive F: for WinXP."

As an "MVP" his input must be respected.

But I still wonder what the critical issue is.


The critical issue is that you have two WinXP
installations and only one license (i.e. one
purchase). Microsoft contends that this is a
violation of its End User Licensing Agreement.
As an MVP, Pegasus can't tell you how to go
about making them independently bootable
(which would happen if you succeeded in
what you are attempting, albeit not your stated
ultimate goal). My stance is that multiple install-
ations of the same OS in the SAME MACHINE
don't constitute violation of copyright law.
Microsoft, on the other hand, which has to worry
about precedents and implications, does claim
that such multiple installations are violations not
only of its EULA, but violations of enforceable
copyright law. You can be the judge of what goes
on in the privacy of your one PC, but Pegasus
must toe the corporate line.

1) Is it that WinXP must have a "C" drive in order to run
at all? In other words, there is no way to direct the boot
process to F: or at east the partition where F: resides
even if this means that F: will be assigned the letter C:.
I don't care if my letters are changed as I can do a drive
map with Partition Magic and reassign drive letters and/or
manually change them in the various .ini files etc.

2) Or, does the critical issue have to do with the
construction of the boot dependent files during
installation. In other words, when I installed WinXP on F:
while C: was visible all of this was taken into account
when boot.ini was created (or altered) and other system (or
specifically "boot") dependent files were created (or
altered) in a unique way for this scenario; therefore, to
dramatically change the scenario (e.g. getting rid of C)
renders all or several of the boot dependent files unusable?

If the only boot dependent file effected by the Parallel
installation of the OS on F: is boot.ini, I can't see how
this would be a critical issue since boot.ini is so simple
to edit.

If "Pegasus" is around I would appreciate some remarks
about what the critical issues are which make it
impossible. I don't doubt his diagnosis; but, not
understanding how this all works leaves me still
wondering.

*TimDaniels*
 
W

wrt

innocently:


The critical issue is that you have two WinXP
installations and only one license (i.e. one
purchase). Microsoft contends that this is a
violation of its End User Licensing Agreement.
As an MVP, Pegasus can't tell you how to go
about making them independently bootable
(which would happen if you succeeded in
what you are attempting, albeit not your stated
ultimate goal). My stance is that multiple install-
ations of the same OS in the SAME MACHINE
don't constitute violation of copyright law.
Microsoft, on the other hand, which has to worry
about precedents and implications, does claim
that such multiple installations are violations not
only of its EULA, but violations of enforceable
copyright law. You can be the judge of what goes
on in the privacy of your one PC, but Pegasus
must toe the corporate line.
I won't quibble with your analysis; but if it is accurate it should be
pointed out that such an approach to my question was completely
unnecessary for:

1) I gave no indication that I was seeking to have two long-term
installations of XP. I simply rebuilt my system on F: and left C: alone
for the obvious reasons of ease of bringing files over, safeguarding
against things I may have forgotten to do had I wiped C: out (or even
backed it up) etc., etc. Surely MS can manifest a bit of
reasonableness.

2) More than this, I specifically spoke of making the "F: installation
completely self-sufficient" and went on to speak of wiping out C:
["Suppose I just wiped out the C: drive"]

3) Pegasus states that I am paying a penalty for not using a boot
manager: "This is the penalty you pay for using the Windows native boot
manager instead of a boot manager that manages each OS on its own, e.g.
XOSL." This seems to me to be a tacit nod to the use of parallel
installations; or at least an acknowledgement that such could be done -
software-wise if not morally. It could have been said, "This is the
penalty you pay for attempting to violate the EULA" if that was the real
issue.

At the end of the day, to tell me it is IMPOSSIBLE (implied by: "the
best you can do...") rather than "this is ILLEGAL" is not only unfair
given the nature of my question, it is false if in fact it IS possible.

Since I still don't know what the computer/software related critical
issues are I cannot determine whether I am being mislead (as you
suggest) or if, in fact, I am up against a software impossibility.

wrt
 
T

Timothy Daniels

wrt said:
[..........]
3) Pegasus states that I am paying a penalty for not using
a boot manager: "This is the penalty you pay for using the
Windows native boot manager instead of a boot manager
that manages each OS on its own, e.g. XOSL." This seems
to me to be a tacit nod to the use of parallel installations;
or at least an acknowledgement that such could be done -
software-wise if not morally. It could have been said, "This
is the penalty you pay for attempting to violate the EULA"
if that was the real issue.

At the end of the day, to tell me it is IMPOSSIBLE (implied by: "the
best you can do...") rather than "this is ILLEGAL" is not only unfair
given the nature of my question, it is false if in fact it IS possible.

Since I still don't know what the computer/software related critical
issues are I cannot determine whether I am being mislead (as you
suggest) or if, in fact, I am up against a software impossibility.


Get it? In any event, Pegasus likes XOSL, and he has
recommended it to me in the past. I never used it only
because I don't have the time to learn and install new
software that I can do well enough without, but I may give
it a try when I wade into Linux.

Meanwhile, here are a couple interesting links regarding
XOSL:
http://www.osloader.com/
http://www.allensmith.net/OS/XOSL/I.htm

There are many websites from which you can download
XOSL, but fear of downloading trojan malware would
steer me to the OSLoader site.

Regarding your original question about making the 2nd
installation bootable and separate, you wrote earlier:
"but boot.ini, ntldr, ntdetect.com are "borrowed" from C:".
Have you tried copying these to F: and then tried
restoring the Master Boot Record (MBR)? For the latter
process, try searching Google for "fixmbr" and read:
http://www.microsoft.com/resources/...Windows/XP/all/reskit/en-us/prkd_tro_ldau.asp

*TimDaniels*
 

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