Looking for UPS firms

J

JoeP

Hi All,



I just bought my SU1500XL ups by Tripp Lite and the fans produce 52 db of noise. This is pretty significant noise that the whole room can hear when there is nothing else on. What other companies or ups's is recommended? The ups by Tripp Lite that I currently have has 0 transfer time because it always converts ac to dc and it produces pure sine waves. I would like to get a UPS that has these features or is at least as close to these features as possible without sacrificing silence.



What other companies would you recommend?



I am aware of APC however they do not have a 0 transfer time UPS within a decent price range.



Regards,



Joe
 
B

Brett I. Holcomb

Try Powerware. They have some dual conversion units and are very
good. We have a unit in a recordig studio control room.
 
J

Jeff Barnett

JoeP wrote:



Hi All,



 



I just bought my SU1500XL ups by Tripp Lite and the fans produce 52 db of noise. This is pretty significant noise that the whole room can hear when there is nothing else on. What other companies or ups’s is recommended? The ups by Tripp Lite that I currently have has 0 transfer time because it always converts ac to dc and it produces pure sine waves. I would like to get a UPS that has these features or is at least as close to these features as possible without sacrificing silence.



 



What other companies would you recommend?



 



I am aware of APC however they do not have a 0 transfer time UPS within a decent price range.



 



Regards,



 



Joe



I use APC products and we get hit a few times a month - Southern California area. The ups have never failed to catch a problem. They too always feed off the battery. So I'm not sure what 0 transfer time might mean other than that. Perhaps it is a technical term that (neither you nor) I understand and it's getting in your way of 100's of possible relevant products.


-- Jeff Barnett

PS For what it's worth, all of my APC UPS are 1300 and 1500 rated in the RS/XS series.
 
P

Paul

Jeff said:
I use APC products and we get hit a few times a month - Southern
California area. The ups have never failed to catch a problem. They too
always feed off the battery. So I'm not sure what 0 transfer time might
mean other than that. Perhaps it is a technical term that (neither you
nor) I understand and it's getting in your way of 100's of possible
relevant products.


-- Jeff Barnett

PS For what it's worth, all of my APC UPS are 1300 and 1500 rated in the
RS/XS series.

There are a number of different architectures for UPS devices. The
cheapest (like the one I own), are SPS type, or standby designs. They
don't have zero transfer time. The inverter on the output only runs,
when the power has failed.

An SPS connects the line A.C., directly to the load outlet, using a
relay or other switching device. If the A.C. disappears on the
input to the UPS, it takes the UPS some time to detect the loss of
input. Then, the UPS can switch over to using the internal inverter,
generating A.C. on the output. So the output is switched over to being
driver by the inverter.

During this switchover interval, there is no A.C. available on the output
of the UPS. The transfer time (perhaps 8 milliseconds), is the time that
the connected appliance, will be *without* power.

An ATX power supply, has a fairly large capacitor on its primary side. The
incoming A.C. is converted to D.C. and is stored on the capacitor. If the
A.C. disappears, the ATX supply has a "hold up time" rating, on the order
of 17 milliseconds. The hold up time will last longer, as a function of
how much less than the rated output, you are drawing from the supply.
(This is why the +5VSB output of the supply, can run for 30 seconds, after
the supply is switched off. That is the holdup time, when only +5VSB is
drawing current of an ampere or two.)

Since the ATX supply has a holdup time that is longer than the UPS, then
there is no upset to the computer. Occasionally, you'll find a computer
in an establishment equipped with many UPSes, where the computer resets
during a power failure. In that case, the assumptions don't seem to be
holding up (one of the two devices is out of spec).

Other architectures of UPSs, add other features to the UPS. For example,
the next tier of design, is line interactive. In that case, the objective
is to tune the output voltage, so as to survive mild brown out conditions.
Perhaps a 90V input, can be boosted to 110VAC, and allow a computer to
more successfully continue running. The UPS at that point, still hasn't
switched to battery. If you live in an area with frequent purposeful
brownouts, then a line-interactive is better than a vanilla SPS.
I hardly ever have brownouts here, so this is not a concern for me.
(My voltage is usually higher than it should be. High enough as to be
on the edge of being unacceptable. It has already ruined my stereo.)

Now, if we go back and discuss the SPS, the cheapest solution again,
it doesn't have "line interactive" and does not compensate for voltage.
It may have surge protection, but surge protection is intended for short
duration upsets. If the A.C. line input, has a longer term excursion from
the proper voltage, this can leak through the UPS (because it is
effectively a straight wire) and damage the equipment. My CRT monitor
was damaged in this way.

The double conversion type, is much more expensive. By converting from
AC-DC-AC, the output is filtered, so transients should not be able to
leak through. The transfer time is zero, because no transfer is taking
place. If the input AC fails, the inverter on the output is always
running, always generating heat, and always creating a constant clean
AC output signal. It would take a huge transient (nearby lightning
strike), for an upset to be transferred through the safety ground,
or via some other mechanism (induction to cabling laying on the floor).

As far as I know, there is one other architecture that has zero transfer
time, but is not a true double conversion. So if you want a true double
conversion type, you have to shop carefully. And hope the manufacturer
is honest about their tech details.

So there are some differences between UPSes, and reasons why one is
$50 and another is $1000. It isn't all window dressing, or heavier
battery packs. If I had a home theatre for example, I might be a
bit more interested in something a bit better, than the SPS type
I've got now. But for the single computer that is connected to
the current SPS type, I don't really care if it is blown up.
The SPS type UPS is only there, to handle 1 second outages.

Paul
 
S

Shenan Stanley

Paul said:
There are a number of different architectures for UPS devices. The
cheapest (like the one I own), are SPS type, or standby designs.
They don't have zero transfer time. The inverter on the output only
runs, when the power has failed.

An SPS connects the line A.C., directly to the load outlet, using a
relay or other switching device. If the A.C. disappears on the
input to the UPS, it takes the UPS some time to detect the loss of
input. Then, the UPS can switch over to using the internal inverter,
generating A.C. on the output. So the output is switched over to
being driver by the inverter.

During this switchover interval, there is no A.C. available on the
output of the UPS. The transfer time (perhaps 8 milliseconds), is
the time that the connected appliance, will be *without* power.

An ATX power supply, has a fairly large capacitor on its primary
side. The incoming A.C. is converted to D.C. and is stored on the
capacitor. If the A.C. disappears, the ATX supply has a "hold up
time" rating, on the order of 17 milliseconds. The hold up time
will last longer, as a function of how much less than the rated
output, you are drawing from the supply. (This is why the +5VSB
output of the supply, can run for 30 seconds, after the supply is
switched off. That is the holdup time, when only +5VSB is drawing
current of an ampere or two.)
Since the ATX supply has a holdup time that is longer than the UPS,
then there is no upset to the computer. Occasionally, you'll find a
computer in an establishment equipped with many UPSes, where the
computer resets during a power failure. In that case, the
assumptions don't seem to be holding up (one of the two devices is
out of spec).
Other architectures of UPSs, add other features to the UPS. For
example, the next tier of design, is line interactive. In that
case, the objective is to tune the output voltage, so as to survive
mild brown out conditions. Perhaps a 90V input, can be boosted to
110VAC, and allow a computer to more successfully continue running.
The UPS at that point, still hasn't switched to battery. If you
live in an area with frequent purposeful brownouts, then a
line-interactive is better than a vanilla SPS. I hardly ever have
brownouts here, so this is not a concern for me.
(My voltage is usually higher than it should be. High enough as to
be on the edge of being unacceptable. It has already ruined my stereo.)

Now, if we go back and discuss the SPS, the cheapest solution again,
it doesn't have "line interactive" and does not compensate for
voltage. It may have surge protection, but surge protection is
intended for short duration upsets. If the A.C. line input, has a
longer term excursion from the proper voltage, this can leak
through the UPS (because it is effectively a straight wire) and
damage the equipment. My CRT monitor was damaged in this way.

The double conversion type, is much more expensive. By converting
from AC-DC-AC, the output is filtered, so transients should not be
able to leak through. The transfer time is zero, because no
transfer is taking place. If the input AC fails, the inverter on
the output is always running, always generating heat, and always
creating a constant clean AC output signal. It would take a huge transient
(nearby lightning
strike), for an upset to be transferred through the safety ground,
or via some other mechanism (induction to cabling laying on the
floor).
As far as I know, there is one other architecture that has zero
transfer time, but is not a true double conversion. So if you want
a true double conversion type, you have to shop carefully. And hope
the manufacturer is honest about their tech details.

So there are some differences between UPSes, and reasons why one is
$50 and another is $1000. It isn't all window dressing, or heavier
battery packs. If I had a home theatre for example, I might be a
bit more interested in something a bit better, than the SPS type
I've got now. But for the single computer that is connected to
the current SPS type, I don't really care if it is blown up.
The SPS type UPS is only there, to handle 1 second outages.

AVR?
 
N

Navigator

Hi All,



I just bought my SU1500XL ups by Tripp Lite and the fans produce 52 db of noise. This is pretty significant noise that the whole room can hear when there is nothing else on. What other companies or ups's is recommended? The ups by Tripp Lite that I currently have has 0 transfer time because it always converts ac to dc and it produces pure sine waves. I would like to get a UPS that has these features or is at least as close to these features as possible without sacrificing silence.



What other companies would you recommend?



I am aware of APC however they do not have a 0 transfer time UPS within a decent price range.



Regards,



Joe
Why ask here? This is a pure hardware question about something not
even used for the OS. Do your own research.

Ask elsewhere
 
W

Walter Wall

Hi All,

I just bought my SU1500XL ups by Tripp Lite and the fans produce 52 db of
noise. This is pretty significant noise that the whole room can hear when
there is nothing else on. What other companies or ups's is recommended? The
ups by Tripp Lite that I currently have has 0 transfer time because it
always converts ac to dc and it produces pure sine waves. I would like to
get a UPS that has these features or is at least as close to these features
as possible without sacrificing silence.

What other companies would you recommend?

I am aware of APC however they do not have a 0 transfer time UPS within a
decent price range.
 
M

M.I.5¾

Navigator said:
Why ask here? This is a pure hardware question about something not
even used for the OS. Do your own research.

Ask elsewhere

Navigator (aka Edric) is our resident ****wit spammer that continually spams
this and other newsgroups.

Ignore him.
 
E

Eric Goldberg

To the guy with the stupid comment,

The ups does infact have to do with windows today because many of them have
a usb cable that communicates with windows to give many details about the
battery status. Also listen this is a forum for professioanls with computers
don't you think that professioanls will use a ups for their computer. I see
this place as a great area to ask questions. If you don't want to give me a
usefull answer then mind your own business.
 

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