"Longhorn"

[Mike Brannigan [MSFT]]

flooder ?

typo - should read "folder"

--
Regards,

Mike
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[Alex Nichol]

As regards WinFS, imagine being a home user with hundreds or thousands of
digital photographs on your PC.
If you attach some metadata to the pictures and folders (like this flooder
contains mike 6th birthday and this other folder contains mikes 7th
birthday, you could organise viewing your photos by "show me all of mikes
birthday pictures arranged by age"

It seems to me that such an approach is only going to be useful with
some *very* careful design for a method for inputting data. Or the user
you mention is just never going to have it available for doing the
retrieval

 

[R. McCarty]

I would like to chime in on this one as well. WinFS may be a help,
but it masks a big problem with data organization. Most users have
problems with folder layout. The concept of data trees like Mike
described would be
My Pictures
Children
Mike
Birthday Photos.
In most cases you will find My Pictures just has hundreds of individual
photographs. Perhaps WinFS would benefit users if it could have a
tool to first collect common types, sort and offer a disk layout. Then help
the user to input the metadata to the re-organized material. Maybe also
provide a "Sorting" option for files without metadata to help in organizing
them in the correct folder tree.
Remember it's taken years for Windows users to learn My Documents,
sub-folders and then data. I would be more interested in proper folder
layout than having Windows create databases of data spread out all over
a disk. Windows itself is organized and structured, so does WinFS mean
that in Longhorn there will only be a single O/S folder with everything
sorted/cataloged by WinFS ? Why not help users to correctly store their
data instead of accommodating the hap-hazard why people do it today.

 

[Mike Brannigan [MSFT]]

It seems to me that such an approach is only going to be useful with
some *very* careful design for a method for inputting data. Or the user
you mention is just never going to have it available for doing the
retrieval

Absolutly - but imagine being able to have the OS show you a photo and ask
you "who are the people in it".
Then build an index on all photos with each person in the inital one. And
repeat until you can find any photo with anyone in it or a number of people
you select from ones the OS can "recognise".

That would be nice
--
Regards,

Mike
--
Mike Brannigan [Microsoft]

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[Larc]

| | >
| >
| > It seems to me that such an approach is only going to be useful with
| > some *very* careful design for a method for inputting data. Or the user
| > you mention is just never going to have it available for doing the
| > retrieval
| >
|
| Absolutly - but imagine being able to have the OS show you a photo and ask
| you "who are the people in it".

That sounds great, Mike. But computers do have a certain "blind spot." They
can't look at a pic and tell whether the blobs in it are people, buildings or
trees. Do you mean that WinFS will ask for details of every pic stored? If
there are a lot of them, that will really be time consuming, won't it?

Admittedly, there's fairly little I know about WinFS. But it's starting to
sound as if full use of it may cost me more work time for setup than I'll be
able to save in searches, etc. Certainly no OS will have any idea what a saved
file is beyond its extension and perhaps words in its name. Other than that and
logistical info such as file size and attributes, the OS won't know anything
about the file unless I "tell" it.

Larc



§§§ - Please raise temperature of mail to reply by e-mail - §§§

 

[Mike Brannigan [MSFT]]

That sounds great, Mike. But computers do have a certain "blind spot." They
can't look at a pic and tell whether the blobs in it are people, buildings or
trees. Do you mean that WinFS will ask for details of every pic stored? If
there are a lot of them, that will really be time consuming, won't it?

Admittedly, there's fairly little I know about WinFS. But it's starting to
sound as if full use of it may cost me more work time for setup than I'll be
able to save in searches, etc. Certainly no OS will have any idea what a saved
file is beyond its extension and perhaps words in its name. Other than that and
logistical info such as file size and attributes, the OS won't know anything
about the file unless I "tell" it.

Larc

If you look at the current level of pattern recognition software available
today - you could envisage a system where an OS could look at a picture and
ask you to "rubber band up" a persons head - then tell the PC the name of
that person and it could conceivably go and look at all the other pictures
and find with a reasonable degree of accuracy any picture that also contains
that same person you ID'd once (regardless of the exact position of their
head or even minor aging and other differences).

As regards other documents - again technologies exist now that can look at
documents and perform simple indexing but also now look at the content and
context inside those documents; and thus can build a taxonomy where
relationships and a greater understanding about the document are available
to be used in more intelligent ways.
If you save your documents today in Microsoft Word you have the option of
providing additional information about it (subject , key words etc etc ) -
that can help with basic indexing, however document and context analysis may
go far beyond this.

(Please Note : all of this is "blue sky" discussion and does not represent
any commitment to develop or make available any feature or functionality
discussed here in any present or future product)

--
Regards,

Mike
--
Mike Brannigan [Microsoft]

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[David]

Bill Gates said yesterday that it will offer computer users robust
security

In other words. We'll only need to check for new Crtical Updates every
other day rather then every day?

Microsoft doesn't have a great track records as far as Security is
concered

--

David

Programmers write "Help Files" for a reason. use them.

"Due to Viewer dicretion...
Graphic violence is advised"

http://www.HeroicStories.com/
http://www.thisistrue.com/

 

[David]

typo - should read "folder"

Mike. Any word on the system requiremnts for Longhorn yet? Even a ball
park figure?

--

David

Programmers write "Help Files" for a reason. use them.

"Due to Viewer dicretion...
Graphic violence is advised"

http://www.HeroicStories.com/
http://www.thisistrue.com/

 

[Mike Brannigan [MSFT]]

Mike. Any word on the system requiremnts for Longhorn yet? Even a ball
park figure?

Hi david,

But it is way too early to say.
A lot can happen in terms of both hardware and coding between now and when
we eventually ship this.
Remember we are months away from even a Beta 1 release.

Sorry to be vague but it is just too soon.

--
Regards,

Mike
--
Mike Brannigan [Microsoft]

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[Jim Byrd]

Hi David - FYI, here's one of the better current Longhorn resource pages
around maintained by Jim Eshelman, MVP:
http://aumha.org/win5/a/longhorn.htm

--
Please respond in the same thread.
Regards, Jim Byrd, MS-MVP



In

 

[ceedee]

anyone got a download location yet

Hi David - FYI, here's one of the better current Longhorn resource pages
around maintained by Jim Eshelman, MVP:
http://aumha.org/win5/a/longhorn.htm

--
Please respond in the same thread.
Regards, Jim Byrd, MS-MVP



In

 

[Jim Byrd]

Yeah, MSDN in December (if you're a subscriber). You can make special
application now if you're a developer.
From Jim's site (that I posted):

Can I get a copy of the Alpha Build of Longhorn to run on my computer?
Copies being distributed now are going to developers. If you have an MSDN
subscription, you will get the PDC release samples in the December update
box. (It reportedly dual boots with Windows XP just fine, but the usual
precautions prevail about using Alpha code on a machine that must work for
you!) For more informatin on how MSDN OS, Professional, Enterprise, and
Universal subscribers can get a copy of the present release, see here
http://msdn.microsoft.com/Longhorn/productinfo/default.aspx.


--
Please respond in the same thread.
Regards, Jim Byrd, MS-MVP



In

 

[Alex Nichol]

Absolutly - but imagine being able to have the OS show you a photo and ask
you "who are the people in it".
Then build an index on all photos with each person in the inital one. And
repeat until you can find any photo with anyone in it or a number of people
you select from ones the OS can "recognise".

It seems to me though that you can't have it based on doing so by
individual photo, or it gets out of hand. You need to be able (off the
top of my head) , to have a folder of thumbnails, and be able to select
all those say containing Mary and have an 'Add' to add Mary to the
'Persons'. Then select a *different* set and add Mark to Persons for
those.. And again for place, date (though that usually comes from the
camera, you can't be certain), occasion ('Sally's wedding') and so on.
Then you would be able to ask suitable questions. But it needs a lot of
effort from the usability end *first* before you let the system
designers get at it.

 

[Mike Brannigan [MSFT]]

Alex,

You may have missed my point (I covered in more detail in a later
response) - you would only have to tell the pattern recognition software
once about each person, it can then find all photos they appear in.
The rest of the meta data is more problematic, but again if you envisage a
system where you create a "folder" (not a real on but a virtual one) and
tell the indexer lots about what you are putting in the "folder" then drop
the photos in and all of them are then tagged with the overall metadata to
allow more searching and indexing etc.

(Please Note : all of this is "blue sky" discussion and does not represent
any commitment to develop or make available any feature or functionality
discussed here in any present or future product)

--
Regards,

Mike
--
Mike Brannigan [Microsoft]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights

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