Laptop battery


C

Corvet

How better manage laptop battery for better conditions and battery long
life: if I work at home near outlet, should I use Power Supply constantly
plugged in? Or I should fully charge battery, then disconnect Power supply
and work from battery?

Regards
 
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G

GT

Corvet said:
How better manage laptop battery for better conditions and battery long
life: if I work at home near outlet, should I use Power Supply constantly
plugged in? Or I should fully charge battery, then disconnect Power supply
and work from battery?

Regards

If a battery is being stored away from the PC for a while, then it is
recommended that you charge it to 40% and keep it sealed in a cool place.

If a battery is being used regularly, then there are mixed views on the best
way of extending their life. Some say that when working from mains power,
the battery should be removed from the laptop, others say to leave it alone.
I have had a Dell 6400 for 7 years now. The first battery died within 18
months - I never removed it from the laptop and used the laptop on a mix of
mains and battery, occasionally completely flatenning the battery. I
replaced the battery with a new one from eBay and it is still going strong
with exactly the same usage pattern as the first.

I guess there is a mix of qualities out there with laptop batteries and not
matter how well you treat a duff one, it will fail and no matter what you do
with a good one, it keeps going!
 
C

Corvet

GT said:
If a battery is being stored away from the PC for a while, then it is
recommended that you charge it to 40% and keep it sealed in a cool place.

If a battery is being used regularly, then there are mixed views on the
best way of extending their life. Some say that when working from mains
power, the battery should be removed from the laptop, others say to leave
it alone. I have had a Dell 6400 for 7 years now. The first battery died
within 18 months - I never removed it from the laptop and used the laptop
on a mix of mains and battery, occasionally completely flatenning the
battery. I replaced the battery with a new one from eBay and it is still
going strong with exactly the same usage pattern as the first.

I guess there is a mix of qualities out there with laptop batteries and
not matter how well you treat a duff one, it will fail and no matter what
you do with a good one, it keeps going!
----------------------
Battery is inside laptop and used regularly; but when battery is fully
charged and Power Supply cable isn't unplugged, does the battery still
continue charging?(overcharged) The Del vostro 1520 power supply strongly
heats after some time (1-1.5 hour), is it normal?
There is no built-in mechanism that atomatically switch between battery and
Power Supply, when battery is fully charged it switch to battery and if not,
it switch to power supply?
 
G

GT

Corvet said:
----------------------
Battery is inside laptop and used regularly; but when battery is fully
charged and Power Supply cable isn't unplugged, does the battery still
continue charging?(overcharged) The Del vostro 1520 power supply strongly
heats after some time (1-1.5 hour), is it normal?
There is no built-in mechanism that atomatically switch between battery
and Power Supply, when battery is fully charged it switch to battery and
if not, it switch to power supply?

If the laptop is on and plugged in to the mains, the laptop will draw power
from the mains supply and will not use the battery.

The battery will charge whenever the mains power is switched on - it doesn't
matter if the laptop is switched on or not, the battery will still charge.
When the battery is full, the charging will stop.

The power supply adapter will get warm/hot whenever it is being used - this
is when it is charging the battery, running the laptop, or both. If the
laptop is off, then the battery will charge for a while and when the battery
is full, it will not require mains power any more and the power supply
should cool down again.

Some power adapters get hotter than others.
 
N

Nobody > (Revisited)

If the laptop is on and plugged in to the mains, the laptop will draw power
from the mains supply and will not use the battery.

Unless the battery is low..

- it doesn't
matter if the laptop is switched on or not, the battery will still charge.
When the battery is full, the charging will stop.

Not always, and all rechargeable batteries have some level of
self-discharge. Every so often, it will drop enough to trigger the charger.

Many chargers never fully "stop", they still put out a trickle charge.

Good rule is to never leave an unused laptop on the charger more that a
few days, a week at most, and (try to) use up at least 3/4 of the charge
before you recharge it.
The power supply adapter will get warm/hot whenever it is being used - this
is when it is charging the battery, running the laptop, or both. If the
laptop is off, then the battery will charge for a while and when the battery
is full, it will not require mains power any more and the power supply
should cool down again.
Some power adapters get hotter than others.

As in starting fires.. I think every major laptop manufacturer has had
at least one recall due to that.

Technology has improved both chargers and batteries vastly, but the
amount of time we use laptops has increased heavily as well... so it's
about a wash.

--
"Shit this is it, all the pieces do fit.
We're like that crazy old man jumping
out of the alleyway with a baseball bat,
saying, "Remember me motherfucker?"
Jim “Dandy” Mangrum
 
C

Corvet

GT said:
If the laptop is on and plugged in to the mains, the laptop will draw power
from the mains supply and will not use the battery.

The battery will charge whenever the mains power is switched on - it doesn't
matter if the laptop is switched on or not, the battery will still charge.
When the battery is full, the charging will stop.

The power supply adapter will get warm/hot whenever it is being used - this
is when it is charging the battery, running the laptop, or both. If the
laptop is off, then the battery will charge for a while and when the battery
is full, it will not require mains power any more and the power supply
should cool down again.

Some power adapters get hotter than others.

-------------
Most of time, I use laptop powered by mains via power supply, so battery
inside will be always fully charged(100%), which will significantly reduce
battery life. What is workaround, how to keep battery charged, say 70%?
Would be better to remove battery from laptop and store it separately?

Thanks,
 
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G

GT

Corvet said:
-------------
Most of time, I use laptop powered by mains via power supply, so battery
inside will be always fully charged(100%), which will significantly reduce
battery life. What is workaround, how to keep battery charged, say 70%?
Would be better to remove battery from laptop and store it separately?

You have 3 options:
1. Remove the battery from the laptop and store it in a cool place. This
will make sure the battery lives for the longest time.
2. Leave the battery in the laptop and hope that it is a good one (mine has
been like that for 5 years now and still holds a full charge)
3. Forget about the battery because you don't use it anyway - just leave it
in and your laptop will survive a power cut!
 
C

Corvet

GT said:
You have 3 options:
1. Remove the battery from the laptop and store it in a cool place. This
will make sure the battery lives for the longest time.
2. Leave the battery in the laptop and hope that it is a good one (mine
has been like that for 5 years now and still holds a full charge)
3. Forget about the battery because you don't use it anyway - just leave
it in and your laptop will survive a power cut!
--------------

I read some laptops have feature to switch from battery to power adapter,
without removing battery from case.

thanks.
 
G

GT

As I said, I think that if the laptop is plugged in to the mains, it will
use mains power and won't use the battery at all.
 
J

John McGaw

On 7/31/2011 6:13 AM, GT wrote:
snip...
As I said, I think that if the laptop is plugged in to the mains, it will
use mains power and won't use the battery at all.


That is correct. With a well-designed properly-functioning the battery and
charging circuit will charge if it needs to and will stop charging when it
is full. If the mains adapter is connected then it will provide power to
the computer -- there is no 'switch' involved.

Over the years I've come to the conclusion that laptop batteries are made
removable for a reason -- they are expendable items. I've owned battery-run
computers ranging from a 286 machine which used a bank of D-sized nicad
cells that weighed about as much as a bowling ball, through every
technology down to the lithium cells in my current HP. The one common
feature to each of them is that they all will go bad eventually -- the
modern ones are simply much easier to manage than the old.

I leave my laptop plugged in most of the time and let is sleep as it wishes
so that it can automatically back itself up to the server every night. The
battery life seems to be pretty much the same after three+ years of being
used this way so I assume that HP got the charging circuit right in this
model. But when the battery does weaken and doesn't provide sufficient life
for the rare times I need to use it on the road then I'll simply buy a new
one and smile to myself as I think of the amount of time I've saved over
the years by not obsessing over care of the battery.
 
G

GT

John McGaw said:
On 7/31/2011 6:13 AM, GT wrote:
snip...


That is correct. With a well-designed properly-functioning the battery and
charging circuit will charge if it needs to and will stop charging when it
is full. If the mains adapter is connected then it will provide power to
the computer -- there is no 'switch' involved.

Over the years I've come to the conclusion that laptop batteries are made
removable for a reason -- they are expendable items. I've owned
battery-run computers ranging from a 286 machine which used a bank of
D-sized nicad cells that weighed about as much as a bowling ball, through
every technology down to the lithium cells in my current HP. The one
common feature to each of them is that they all will go bad eventually --
the modern ones are simply much easier to manage than the old.

I leave my laptop plugged in most of the time and let is sleep as it
wishes so that it can automatically back itself up to the server every
night. The battery life seems to be pretty much the same after three+
years of being used this way so I assume that HP got the charging circuit
right in this model. But when the battery does weaken and doesn't provide
sufficient life for the rare times I need to use it on the road then I'll
simply buy a new one and smile to myself as I think of the amount of time
I've saved over the years by not obsessing over care of the battery.

Small point - its the quality of the battery cells, not the charging circuit
that determines battery life. My old Dell6400 destroyed its original battery
within 18 months - hardly held a charge at all. My replacement battery in
the same laptop still holds almost full charge after 5 years of being used
in exactly the same way.
 
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A

Anssi Saari

Corvet said:
Most of time, I use laptop powered by mains via power supply, so battery
inside will be always fully charged(100%), which will significantly reduce
battery life. What is workaround, how to keep battery charged, say 70%?

Some laptops have a way to turn off charging. The only one I know is a
Dell Latitude 6400.
Would be better to remove battery from laptop and store it separately?

If that's convenient for you. My view is that it's good to have a
battery in a laptop, since it acts as a UPS and it's portable without
having to power down.

You could have a second battery for trips and such where you need
battery power that you only use then and otherwise store.
 
C

Corvet

Anssi Saari said:
Some laptops have a way to turn off charging. The only one I know is a
Dell Latitude 6400.


If that's convenient for you. My view is that it's good to have a
battery in a laptop, since it acts as a UPS and it's portable without
having to power down.

You could have a second battery for trips and such where you need
battery power that you only use then and otherwise store.
-------------


As I read, the point is that battery in laptop still continuous charging,
even after it fully charged to 100%, so it will always stay charged 100%,
which decrease battery life.

thanks.
 
J

John McGaw

On 8/1/2011 5:45 AM, GT wrote:
snip...
Small point - its the quality of the battery cells, not the charging circuit
that determines battery life. My old Dell6400 destroyed its original battery
within 18 months - hardly held a charge at all. My replacement battery in
the same laptop still holds almost full charge after 5 years of being used
in exactly the same way.
I'd say that it is a combination of the charge regulation and cell
balancing circuitry, the battery firmware, the battery cells, and the
temperature sensor that determine how well things work in the long run. If
the circuitry is wrong it will overcharge or undercharge or charge too
slowly or charge too quickly or overcharge some cells and undercharge
others. If the firmware is bad then the same thing can happen. If the cells
deviate slightly from some ideal reference that the design assumed then
they may have a shortened life. If the temperature sensor is not working
properly then slow charging or battery frying can result. In any case,
there is not a lot that the end user can do in the long run so I say just
use it in the way which is most convenient and be ready to buy a new pack
when the time comes. If it lasts for several years then you are ahead of
the game.
 
C

Corvet

John McGaw said:
On 8/1/2011 5:45 AM, GT wrote:
snip...
I'd say that it is a combination of the charge regulation and cell
balancing circuitry, the battery firmware, the battery cells, and the
temperature sensor that determine how well things work in the long run. If
the circuitry is wrong it will overcharge or undercharge or charge too
slowly or charge too quickly or overcharge some cells and undercharge
others. If the firmware is bad then the same thing can happen. If the cells
deviate slightly from some ideal reference that the design assumed then
they may have a shortened life. If the temperature sensor is not working
properly then slow charging or battery frying can result. In any case,
there is not a lot that the end user can do in the long run so I say just
use it in the way which is most convenient and be ready to buy a new pack
when the time comes. If it lasts for several years then you are ahead of
the game.
 
P

Paul

Corvet said:
-------------


As I read, the point is that battery in laptop still continuous
charging, even after it fully charged to 100%, so it will always stay
charged 100%, which decrease battery life.

thanks.

This site hosts articles on battery charging, and you can see some
of the options that charging devices use.

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries

If a charger caused the battery voltage to go too high, that leads
to a dangerous situation, and the battery itself has safety
features that attempt to reduce resultant damage. At the very least,
any "smart" charger should stop charging at a certain voltage.

Paul
 
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A

Anssi Saari

Corvet said:
As I read, the point is that battery in laptop still continuous
charging, even after it fully charged to 100%, so it will always stay
charged 100%, which decrease battery life.

I don't know whose point that is. My point is that some laptops allow
you to turn charging off. So battery stays at whatever charge it
happens to be at and laptop draws power from the charger.
 
J

John McGaw

snip...


Is there some recent notebook models that support battery charge regulation:
allow define charging level (say 40%), then stop charging process after this
level, and further work from power supply?

There are none that I know of -- having such a 'feature' would be entirely
pointless and counterproductive for the normal user. If there are no
problems in the battery or charger then charging to 100% is exactly what
needs to be done and it is what they do. When the laptop is plugged into
the mains it runs off of the mains; if the battery happens to be less than
fully charged then it is charged to capacity; one does not interfere with
the other. Having a lithium battery charged to 100% is the optimal state
and having it charged to a lower capacity (40% for example) will not
benefit it in any way.
 
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F

Flasherly

On Mon, 1 Aug 2011 22:00:26 +0300, "Corvet"
Is there some recent notebook models that support battery charge regulation:
allow define charging level (say 40%), then stop charging process after this
level, and further work from power supply?

I've a LaCrosse charger with 4 mode battery charge operations at 4
levels of current. Its lowest current level setting is x8 times
higher useage for normal (cheap) industry-standard battery charger
units. That range applied to rate specifications of laptop batteries
is the question. Whether it's worth the effort to splice out for a
junction charge box with silver solder (at higher-heat laptop contact
temperature/reference). Already got the rest, a plumber's grade
Weller soldering gun and multimeter with a temp probe and RPM meter.

When I blow things up, sky high, I get out the jewelers tools with a
careful aim to unscrew things coated in blue & white, crystalline
layers of residue of sticky, corrosive acid. Alcohol and Q-Tips,
truly the stuff of greatness. Otherwise, nope. Few seriously would
think to cater a laptop to that level of infinitesimal geekishness.
 
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