KB931768 problem - ***solved***

[Richard Urban]

I had posted in a couple of various threads that I was also affected by this
update (KB931768) under both Vista and Windows XP. Under Vista, Windows Mail
had become so slow as to be almost impossible to use. Clicking on a post in
the news groups took about 2-4 seconds to show the text in the bottom.
Replying to a post also took about 2-4 seconds to bring us a usable reply
window. Shutting down Windows Mail took the same 2-4 seconds.

I also stated that I thought it was a program interaction. It took me six
days to rebuild my system, installing each program I normally use, rebooting
and then testing Windows Mail. I was creating an image of my system after
every successful program install so I could go back easily when I found a
problem. All it took was loads of time and testing.

About 2 hours ago I finally found the culprit!

Hint! Raise your hand if you have Spybot Search and Destroy installed.

I had been using Spybot Search and Destroy for about 4 years now. I
installed it under Vista and, because it seemed to work OK, I left it in
place. Well, we all know that Spybot S&D was **not** designed for Vista. It
just happened to work.

Unfortunately, it's short comings showed up after the install of KB931768

I installed Spybot S&D - and did not choose to run through the initial
wizard immediately. I closed down Spybot S&D and tested Windows Mail.
Everything was fine. After a reboot everything was still fine. I then ran
through the wizard and retrieved all the available updates for Spybot S&D. I
again tested Windows Mail and found it to work as it previously had (no
discernible problems or slow downs).

I then chose to ***immunize*** within Spybot, which you have to do to apply
the updates for the program.

I again started Windows Mail.

*****BANG***** *****BOOM***** *****BAM*****

Windows Mail had been broken!

Every adverse condition that I listed above was back in all their glory!

Now, here is the unfortunate part that is going to cause countless thousands
of people a bunch of grief. Uninstalling Spybot Search and Destroy (even
with a reboot) ***DOES NOT*** eliminate the problem and take you back to
where you were previously. Uninstalling and then using System Restore may -
if you have just installed Spybot S&D and made no changes to your system
since. I doubt if too many people would fall into this category.

Even scouring the file system and deleting all remnants left from the
install does nothing. Spybot must place, or alter, a registry entry
somewhere that is not touched by the uninstall process. You will have to
rebuild your system from scratch and resist the temptation to install Spybot
Search and Destroy.

I have not yet tested to see if this also solves the alternate placement
problem for the Temporary Internet File Folder but I will be testing for
that as soon as I place this post in the suitable newsgroups. I will also be
testing for this under Windows XP when I recover from the total exhaustion I
have been working under for the past 24 hours. (-:

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

 

[Richard Urban]

I had also had a problem where I could NOT start Internet Explorer with
administrator privileges if I stored the Temporary Internet Files in other
than the default location.. IE would crash when I did so.

This fix **DOES NOT** solve for that problem. So, there is still more work
to do. <sigh>

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

 

[Bill]

I had posted in a couple of various threads that I was also affected by
this update (KB931768) under both Vista and Windows XP. Under Vista,
Windows Mail had become so slow as to be almost impossible to use. Clicking
on a post in the news groups took about 2-4 seconds to show the text in the
bottom. Replying to a post also took about 2-4 seconds to bring us a usable
reply window. Shutting down Windows Mail took the same 2-4 seconds.

I also stated that I thought it was a program interaction. It took me six
days to rebuild my system, installing each program I normally use,
rebooting and then testing Windows Mail. I was creating an image of my
system after every successful program install so I could go back easily
when I found a problem. All it took was loads of time and testing.

About 2 hours ago I finally found the culprit!

Hint! Raise your hand if you have Spybot Search and Destroy installed.

I had been using Spybot Search and Destroy for about 4 years now. I
installed it under Vista and, because it seemed to work OK, I left it in
place. Well, we all know that Spybot S&D was **not** designed for Vista.
It just happened to work.

Unfortunately, it's short comings showed up after the install of KB931768

I installed Spybot S&D - and did not choose to run through the initial
wizard immediately. I closed down Spybot S&D and tested Windows Mail.
Everything was fine. After a reboot everything was still fine. I then ran
through the wizard and retrieved all the available updates for Spybot S&D.
I again tested Windows Mail and found it to work as it previously had (no
discernible problems or slow downs).

I then chose to ***immunize*** within Spybot, which you have to do to
apply the updates for the program.

I again started Windows Mail.

*****BANG***** *****BOOM***** *****BAM*****

Windows Mail had been broken!

Every adverse condition that I listed above was back in all their glory!

Now, here is the unfortunate part that is going to cause countless
thousands of people a bunch of grief. Uninstalling Spybot Search and
Destroy (even with a reboot) ***DOES NOT*** eliminate the problem and
take you back to where you were previously. Uninstalling and then using
System Restore may - if you have just installed Spybot S&D and made no
changes to your system since. I doubt if too many people would fall into
this category.

Even scouring the file system and deleting all remnants left from the
install does nothing. Spybot must place, or alter, a registry entry
somewhere that is not touched by the uninstall process. You will have to
rebuild your system from scratch and resist the temptation to install
Spybot Search and Destroy.

I have not yet tested to see if this also solves the alternate placement
problem for the Temporary Internet File Folder but I will be testing for
that as soon as I place this post in the suitable newsgroups. I will also
be testing for this under Windows XP when I recover from the total
exhaustion I have been working under for the past 24 hours. (-:

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

I too have been experiencing these delays of several seconds since the last
updates and was interested to see the results of your hard work. It is one
of a number of issues which have me seriously contemplating reverting to XP.
So I was pleased to see your post.

Interestingly the Spybot site claims "now officially works with Vista" - see
www.spybot.info/en/news/index.html - 16 April article, obviously before the
KB931768 update.

I'm now wondering if you have had any contact with Spybot?

Thanks - hope you are well rested by the time you read this.

Bill

 

[Richard Urban]

I emailed the identical post to Spybot for their knowledge.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

 

[GTS]

Hand raised! An interesting find. Thanks for the hard work.
If I can muster the time and ambition, it's tempting to follow you're lead
and do a pre and post Immunize registry comparison. It seems like that
would be the only way to find a less drastic fix.

 

[DanS]

Hint! Raise your hand if you have Spybot Search and Destroy installed.

I had been using Spybot Search and Destroy for about 4 years now. I
installed it under Vista and, because it seemed to work OK, I left it
in place. Well, we all know that Spybot S&D was **not** designed for
Vista. It just happened to work.

Unfortunately, it's short comings showed up after the install of
KB931768

I'm sort of wondering why you run Spybot anyway under Vista.

Doesn't UAC and all the new 'security' in Vista and IE7, along with the MS
One Care package make Spybot unnecessary ?

 

[Richard Urban]

Layered approach!

Good bye Dans

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

 

[Richard Urban]

God! That would take me another 24 hours, sifting through the thousands of
registry entries.

Besides, I have to finish rebuilding my system. I still have another 40 or
so programs and applets to install.



--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

 

[WTC]

All you need to do is remove the Restricted Sites from IE Options and the
problem is gone, there was no need for a complete re-install. Seen many
computers affected by this and this is how I fixed the problem.

HKEY_USERS\.DEFAULT\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Internet
Settings\ZoneMap\Domains
And
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Internet
Settings\ZoneMap\Domains

 

[Gary VanderMolen]

I'm sort of wondering why you run Spybot anyway under Vista.

Good point. I would be reluctant to run any type of security software
unless it was specifically developed for Vista.

Doesn't UAC and all the new 'security' in Vista and IE7, along with the MS
One Care package make Spybot unnecessary ?

Perhaps. Vista is too new to make any sweeping generalizations like that.

 

[Richard Urban]

<grin>

You post this NOW, after I spend 6 days. How do you know which program
placed the sites in the restricted area when many people have multiple anti
spyware programs installed. Many put web sites there.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

 

[DanS]

Perhaps. Vista is too new to make any sweeping generalizations like
that.

That's what's being pushed.....security.

I don't see that there's any way to form a decent opinion as to whether or
not the changes in the security model have done any good if 3rd party
security utilities are still in place and being used actively.

 

[WTC]

I do not know what Sites are added by what programs but Spybot adds a lot of
them. I just removed them all after a backup of course and the problem went
away. Having 12,000+ sites in the restrictive zone will eventually cause
problems. From what I heard, 12,000 malware sites is a very small percentage
of what is actually out there.

 

[Richard Urban]

So, you are suggesting that there is no need for 3rd party anti spyware if
it places sites (they all do) in the restricted zone?

SpySweeper also places many there. Removing "all" the sites is crippling
what the anti spyware programs do. May as well uninstall them all after
cleaning out the restricted zone as they will no longer do what you expect
them to do.

At this point I have no problem with SpySweeper so I will leave it in place,
restricted sites and all. It is only SpyBot Search and Destroy that causes
the problem.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

 

[john]

Good point. I would be reluctant to run any type of security software
unless it was specifically developed for Vista.


Perhaps. Vista is too new to make any sweeping generalizations like that.

sweeping generalizations? you mean like this one?

Allchin Suggests Vista Won't Need Antivirus
By Scott M. Fulton, III, BetaNews
November 9, 2006, 4:26 PM
During a telephone conference with reporters yesterday, outgoing Microsoft
co-president Jim Allchin, while touting the new security features of Windows
Vista, which was released to manufacturing yesterday, told a reporter that
the system's new lockdown features are so capable and thorough that he was
comfortable with his own seven-year-old son using Vista without antivirus
software installed.

LOL

 

[WTC]

I am not suggesting not using anti-spyware products but rather not having a
large amount (like 12,000+) web sites in the restriction zone. Maybe Sandi's
blog will help you understand what is going on:

http://msmvps.com/blogs/spywaresucks/archive/2007/05/13/901386.aspx

 

[Doris Day - MFB]

It took me six
days to rebuild my system, installing each program I normally use,
rebooting and then testing Windows Mail. I was creating an image of my
system after every successful program install so I could go back easily
when I found a problem. All it took was loads of time and testing.

About 2 hours ago I finally found the culprit!

And you are constantly arguing about how productive it is to use Vista.
ROFL, 6 days of screwing around like that doesn't appear to be too
productive to me. And lo and behold, the problem ended up being one of the
condoms you put on Vista to try and keep it secure. And you keep telling us
how great Vista is and how much you love using it. You sure you haven't
stopped taking your meds? You and Dr. Frank need to get together. You guys
can have fun buckling up those white jackets, with long sleeves that strap
together behind your back.

Love and Kisses,
Doris

 

[Doris Day - MFB]

I do not know what Sites are added by what programs but Spybot adds a lot
of them. I just removed them all after a backup of course and the problem
went away. Having 12,000+ sites in the restrictive zone will eventually
cause problems. From what I heard, 12,000 malware sites is a very small
percentage of what is actually out there.

Yep, seems like a pretty vain hope to try and protect ones computer by
keeping a list as large as that of sites that shouldn't be visited. Why not
just move on over to a secure operating system? Then you can do away with
all this nonsense and the need to wear multi-condoms to try and protect
your system.

Love and Kisses,
Doris

 

[Doris Day - MFB]

Layered approach!

Good bye Dans

One can only use so many condoms at one time before all feeling is lost and
you may as well just abstain from connecting to the Internet at all or give
up sex. Whichever comes first.

Love and Kisses,
Doris

 

[Doris Day - MFB]

God! That would take me another 24 hours, sifting through the thousands of
registry entries.

Besides, I have to finish rebuilding my system. I still have another 40 or
so programs and applets to install.

Hopefully you'll get it rebuilt one day and be able to tell us again how
great it is to use Vista. How long do you expect it'll take to get those 40
or so programs installed?

Love and Kisses,
Doris