K8N Neo Platinum MB (nVidia nForce 3 250GB chipset), XP PRO and 3 x W98 SEs. Vigor 2600 Router. LAN

[ATK]

A few weeks ago when I built this XP PRO system, I had no trouble (file
sharing only) when I added it to the long-standing (and troublefree) system
I had used for a long time with my W98s, using Netbeui (for security) for
File and Printer Sharing and TCP/IP (Internet).
In the first instance, the FILE sharing worked perfectly, but there was no
way I could get the XP to see my 3 printers (2 x HP LJ4s and a QMS colour
laser printer).
After the loss of many man hours, the Support people for Vigor stated that
it couldn't be done. Why I don't know - presumable some problem with their
router, although it does seem a significant weakness. I would have thought
there were thousands of people using the combination of Netbeui, XP and W98
to share printers.
Following on from this and despite my reservations about using XP I have now
added XP to my "working" W98 and XP, and although I think it worked once for
the file sharing only on the XP, I cannot get the XP to see anything on the
LAN. Usually this W98 can see the XP OK, but still no printer sharing.
The message I get from XP is:

"My Documents
\\1\1 98SE is not accessible.You might not have permission to use this
network resource. Contact the administrator of this service to find out if
you have access permissions.
The network path was not found.
OK"

I have looked at some of the postings on this site and tried some of the
solutions, but to no avail.
I can confirm the workgroup settings are correct and that all of the
computers access the Internet without problem.
One curious thing: When I initially introduced the XP to the LAN I was able
to give F & P sharing to the Netbeui protocal (for the LAN) but with-hold it
for TCP/IP (Internet access thru router). Now my XP shows F & P sharing OK,
presumable to both Netbeui AND TCP/IP, but I don't have power to do anything
with Netbeui.
In Local Area Connection Properties, when I highlight Netbeui Protocol the
Properties box greys-out.
I have reasonable experience of setting up LANs and will try anything. I
feel the expertise I built on W 98 is useless when it comes to setting up
XP.
Help please.

 

[Chuck]

A few weeks ago when I built this XP PRO system, I had no trouble (file
sharing only) when I added it to the long-standing (and troublefree) system
I had used for a long time with my W98s, using Netbeui (for security) for
File and Printer Sharing and TCP/IP (Internet).
In the first instance, the FILE sharing worked perfectly, but there was no
way I could get the XP to see my 3 printers (2 x HP LJ4s and a QMS colour
laser printer).
After the loss of many man hours, the Support people for Vigor stated that
it couldn't be done. Why I don't know - presumable some problem with their
router, although it does seem a significant weakness. I would have thought
there were thousands of people using the combination of Netbeui, XP and W98
to share printers.
Following on from this and despite my reservations about using XP I have now
added XP to my "working" W98 and XP, and although I think it worked once for
the file sharing only on the XP, I cannot get the XP to see anything on the
LAN. Usually this W98 can see the XP OK, but still no printer sharing.
The message I get from XP is:

"My Documents
\\1\1 98SE is not accessible.You might not have permission to use this
network resource. Contact the administrator of this service to find out if
you have access permissions.
The network path was not found.
OK"

I have looked at some of the postings on this site and tried some of the
solutions, but to no avail.
I can confirm the workgroup settings are correct and that all of the
computers access the Internet without problem.
One curious thing: When I initially introduced the XP to the LAN I was able
to give F & P sharing to the Netbeui protocal (for the LAN) but with-hold it
for TCP/IP (Internet access thru router). Now my XP shows F & P sharing OK,
presumable to both Netbeui AND TCP/IP, but I don't have power to do anything
with Netbeui.
In Local Area Connection Properties, when I highlight Netbeui Protocol the
Properties box greys-out.
I have reasonable experience of setting up LANs and will try anything. I
feel the expertise I built on W 98 is useless when it comes to setting up
XP.
Help please.

If you're using a NAT router, you'll be better off using only TCP/IP, with
NetBIOS Over TCP/IP for file sharing. NetBEUI simply complicates things.
Windows networking is built around TCP/IP, and uses NetBIOS Over TCP/IP as an
interface to file and printer sharing.

If there's a problem with TCP/IP, or with NBT, NetBEUI may provide a workaround.
But it will also add needless complexity, and may cause long term stability
problems. And behind a properly setup NAT router, NBT is secure.

Here are a couple good articles on the subject (remember, WinXP is WinNT V5.1):
<http://support.microsoft.com/?id=128233>
<http://www.networkmagazine.com/article/NMG20000517S0009>
<http://www.ultratech-llc.com/BrainWave/TechDocs/Resolution.html>

Here are a few websites with useful tutorials on networking in general:
http://www.cablesense.com/
http://www.homenethelp.com/
http://www.practicallynetworked.com/
http://www.wown.com/

When asking for help in the future, you might want to simplify your Subject
somewhat. Obviously, you want to avoid using a subject like "Problem networking
computers" or something equally simple. But trying to describe the design of
your LAN in your Subject is probably going to the other extreme. Look at some
of the other threads in this forum, and see typical content, and how their
Subject is structured.

--
Cheers,
Chuck
Paranoia comes from experience - and is not necessarily a bad thing.
My email is AT DOT
actual address pchuck sonic net.

 

[ATK]

Thanks Chuck.
Perhaps I did go too far with my subject - it's because so many subject
headings don't give a clue as to the nature of the problem.
I have always used Netbeui because it was non-routable. I thought TCP/IP
wasn't secure: is it using NBT that gives it security?
Before I invoke your suggestions, do you think I will need new drivers for
my printers?
The printers' addresses were set by me at the printers' panels and of course
the drivers are appropriate to W98SE.
Incidentally, all the computers can ping all the printers, but I suppose
that only proves the cabling is OK.
So that I can still do useful work during the change, it occurs to me that I
should use only one of my W98 computers with the XP - can I establish an
additional workgroup for this purpose even although I only have one NIC in
each computer?
Incidentally, permit me one final thought. It seems extraordinary to me that
before my problems started the other day, XP and the W98 computers behaved
perfectly with file sharing, indeed XP was particularly impressive. It does
seem strange that at NO time over the weeks involved could XP see ANY
printers.
I will look at the sites you quote, although I am sure that I have visited
them recently and in the past.
Thanks again for responding to my plea.

 

[Chuck]

Thanks Chuck.
Perhaps I did go too far with my subject - it's because so many subject
headings don't give a clue as to the nature of the problem.
I have always used Netbeui because it was non-routable. I thought TCP/IP
wasn't secure: is it using NBT that gives it security?
Before I invoke your suggestions, do you think I will need new drivers for
my printers?
The printers' addresses were set by me at the printers' panels and of course
the drivers are appropriate to W98SE.
Incidentally, all the computers can ping all the printers, but I suppose
that only proves the cabling is OK.
So that I can still do useful work during the change, it occurs to me that I
should use only one of my W98 computers with the XP - can I establish an
additional workgroup for this purpose even although I only have one NIC in
each computer?
Incidentally, permit me one final thought. It seems extraordinary to me that
before my problems started the other day, XP and the W98 computers behaved
perfectly with file sharing, indeed XP was particularly impressive. It does
seem strange that at NO time over the weeks involved could XP see ANY
printers.
I will look at the sites you quote, although I am sure that I have visited
them recently and in the past.
Thanks again for responding to my plea.

TCP/IP (and NBT) is not a secure protocol if you're connecting your LAN directly
to the internet. But if you're cheap / stupid enough to do that, you have worse
problems than just insecure file sharing. If you're behind a properly setup NAT
router, and personal firewalls, however, you're safe.

The problem with NetBEUI is that it's use on your LAN complicates things. What
we think of as "file (and printer) sharing" actually depends upon a number of
settings and subsystems.
- Authentication / authorisation between workstation and server.
- Binding of services to protocols.
- Browser for cataloguing named shares.
- Host / workgroup naming.
- Name resolution for translating named resources to network addresses.
- Server / workstation services.

It's complicated enough getting all of the above working with just NetBIOS Over
TCP/IP (the TCP/IP equivalent to NetBEUI). NBT is the default "protocol" for
Microsoft Windows Networking, and is better understood than either NetBEUI (or
IPX/SPX, another protocol). So, if you're having problems, you're more likely
to get useful help if you can simplify your setup - and start with NBT.

To start, you need to eliminate excess protocols from the list of items under
Local Area Connection Properties. You only need the following items in the
list:
Client for Microsoft Networks
File and Printer Sharing For Microsoft Networks
QoS Packet Scheduler (optional)
Internet Protocol (TCP/IP)

Then, make sure that NetBIOS Over TCP/IP is enabled. Local Area Connection -
Properties - TCP/IP - Properties - Advanced - WINS - Enable NetBIOS over TCP/IP.

The drivers for your printers SHOULD work as well with NBT as with NetBEUI. Of
course, new drivers for various products are released sometimes, and usually for
good reasons. For this reason, one recommendation is usually to start with
updated drivers, for whatever component is having problems anyway.

The fact that "all the computers can ping all the printers" shows that TCP/IP is
properly setup. If you're having problems with printer sharing, this again
points to a NetBEUI problem. Or maybe an authentication / authorisation
problem.

I don't know specifically how everything WAS working on your LAN at one time,
nor what changed, nor what your basic current problem is. I have no objection
to trying to make your LAN work with NetBEUI, if you're not caring about getting
it working real soon. But, if your focus is on getting things working promptly,
and having a supportable setup for the future, I highly recommend you drop
NetBEUI and move ahead.

I also recommend that you focus on making this work, without complicating things
by setting up a separate workgroup for your other computers - and yes, you can
setup additional workgroups with only one physical network device on any
computer.

It's your dime.

BTW, posting your email address openly will get you more unwanted email, than
wanted email. Learn to munge your email address properly, to keep yourself a
bit safer when posting to open forums. Protect yourself and the rest of the
internet - read this article.
http://www.mailmsg.com/SPAM_munging.htm

--
Cheers,
Chuck
Paranoia comes from experience - and is not necessarily a bad thing.
My email is AT DOT
actual address pchuck sonic net.

 

[ATK]

TCP/IP (and NBT) is not a secure protocol if you're connecting your
LAN directly to the internet. But if you're cheap / stupid enough to
do that, you have worse problems than just insecure file sharing. If
you're behind a properly setup NAT router, and personal firewalls,
however, you're safe.

The problem with NetBEUI is that it's use on your LAN complicates
things. What we think of as "file (and printer) sharing" actually
depends upon a number of settings and subsystems.
- Authentication / authorisation between workstation and server.
- Binding of services to protocols.
- Browser for cataloguing named shares.
- Host / workgroup naming.
- Name resolution for translating named resources to network
addresses.
- Server / workstation services.

It's complicated enough getting all of the above working with just
NetBIOS Over TCP/IP (the TCP/IP equivalent to NetBEUI). NBT is the
default "protocol" for Microsoft Windows Networking, and is better
understood than either NetBEUI (or IPX/SPX, another protocol). So,
if you're having problems, you're more likely to get useful help if
you can simplify your setup - and start with NBT.

To start, you need to eliminate excess protocols from the list of
items under Local Area Connection Properties. You only need the
following items in the list:
Client for Microsoft Networks
File and Printer Sharing For Microsoft Networks
QoS Packet Scheduler (optional)
Internet Protocol (TCP/IP)

Then, make sure that NetBIOS Over TCP/IP is enabled. Local Area
Connection - Properties - TCP/IP - Properties - Advanced - WINS -
Enable NetBIOS over TCP/IP.

The drivers for your printers SHOULD work as well with NBT as with
NetBEUI. Of course, new drivers for various products are released
sometimes, and usually for good reasons. For this reason, one
recommendation is usually to start with updated drivers, for whatever
component is having problems anyway.

The fact that "all the computers can ping all the printers" shows
that TCP/IP is properly setup. If you're having problems with
printer sharing, this again points to a NetBEUI problem. Or maybe an
authentication / authorisation problem.

I don't know specifically how everything WAS working on your LAN at
one time, nor what changed, nor what your basic current problem is.
I have no objection to trying to make your LAN work with NetBEUI, if
you're not caring about getting it working real soon. But, if your
focus is on getting things working promptly, and having a supportable
setup for the future, I highly recommend you drop NetBEUI and move
ahead.

I also recommend that you focus on making this work, without
complicating things by setting up a separate workgroup for your other
computers - and yes, you can setup additional workgroups with only
one physical network device on any computer.

It's your dime.

BTW, posting your email address openly will get you more unwanted
email, than wanted email. Learn to munge your email address
properly, to keep yourself a bit safer when posting to open forums.
Protect yourself and the rest of the internet - read this article.
http://www.mailmsg.com/SPAM_munging.htm

Hi Chuck.
Somethings are going OK but I'm still not there yet and the inconsistences
are too numerous to list.
One main thing, on W98 I can never get the "Enable Netbios...." option up.
I hope I have not given too much info but here are my Network Settings On
W98 and XP.

W98SE Computer Properties.
Client for Microsoft Networks. General: Logon and restore network
connections.

Realtek RTL8139/810...... Fast Ethernet NIC. Driver Type: Enh. mode (32
bit and 16 bit) NDIS driver. Bindings: TCP/IP. Advanced Early Tx
Threshold: value = 3. Netork Address = Not present.

TCP/IP. Bindings: Client...... & F & P sharing. Allow Bindings to ATM:
No. Netbios: option for Netbios over TCP/IP is greyed-out (I have never
noticed this option being available). DNS config: Disable. Gateway:
blank. WINS config: Use DHCP for WINS Resolution. IP Address: Obtain an
IP address automatically.

F & P Sharing for Microsoft Networks. Browse Master: Automatic. LM
Announce: No.

All of above are in same work group and have Share level access control


XP PRO Computer LAN Connection.
Advanced: Firewall off for everything.
General: Notify me when this connection has limited or no connectivity for
everything.

Client.......... Properties: RPC Service: Windows Locator.

F & P Sharing. Properties: greyed-out.

QOS Packet Scheduler. Properties: greyed-out.

TCP/IP. Properties: General: Obtain an IP Address Automatically, and Obtain
DNS server address automatically. Alternate Config: Automatic Private IP
address.
Advanced: IP Settings: IP address: DHCP Enabled. Default Gateways: blank.
Automatic metric is ticked.
DNS: DNS server... is blank. Appeal primary and connection specific DNS
suffixes and Append Parent Suffixes of the Primary DNS Suffix are ticked
ticked. Register this connection's addresses in DNS is ticked.
WINS: WINS addresses blank. Enable LM Hosts lookup and Enable Netbios over
TCP/IP both ticked.
Options: Optional Settings: TCP/IP filtering. Properties: TCP/IP Filtering:
Enable TCP/IP Filtering NOT ticked. All 3 " Permit All" boxes ticked.

Also CP/Administrative Tools/Services/Computer Browser, DHCP Client, DNS
Client, Network Connections, Network Location Awareness, Network
Provisioning, TCP/IP NetBios Helper, Network DDE, Network LM Security
Support= all Started and Automatic
Net Logon = Automatic but refuses to start.

General Progress. I am getting some success with printers but no pattern.

I do hope I have not given too much info., but I thought that the time it
has taken me would be well spent.
Thanks again.

Incidentally, I tried to munge my email address after reading your advice to
another guy, but don't know how to do it. I use Outlook Express 6 - perhaps
you could also help with this as I do get a lot of spam and NGs, I think are
the reason.

 

[Chuck]

Somethings are going OK but I'm still not there yet and the inconsistences
are too numerous to list.
One main thing, on W98 I can never get the "Enable Netbios...." option up.
I hope I have not given too much info but here are my Network Settings On
W98 and XP.

W98SE Computer Properties.
Client for Microsoft Networks. General: Logon and restore network
connections.

Realtek RTL8139/810...... Fast Ethernet NIC. Driver Type: Enh. mode (32
bit and 16 bit) NDIS driver. Bindings: TCP/IP. Advanced Early Tx
Threshold: value = 3. Netork Address = Not present.

TCP/IP. Bindings: Client...... & F & P sharing. Allow Bindings to ATM:
No. Netbios: option for Netbios over TCP/IP is greyed-out (I have never
noticed this option being available). DNS config: Disable. Gateway:
blank. WINS config: Use DHCP for WINS Resolution. IP Address: Obtain an
IP address automatically.

F & P Sharing for Microsoft Networks. Browse Master: Automatic. LM
Announce: No.

All of above are in same work group and have Share level access control


XP PRO Computer LAN Connection.
Advanced: Firewall off for everything.
General: Notify me when this connection has limited or no connectivity for
everything.

Client.......... Properties: RPC Service: Windows Locator.

F & P Sharing. Properties: greyed-out.

QOS Packet Scheduler. Properties: greyed-out.

TCP/IP. Properties: General: Obtain an IP Address Automatically, and Obtain
DNS server address automatically. Alternate Config: Automatic Private IP
address.
Advanced: IP Settings: IP address: DHCP Enabled. Default Gateways: blank.
Automatic metric is ticked.
DNS: DNS server... is blank. Appeal primary and connection specific DNS
suffixes and Append Parent Suffixes of the Primary DNS Suffix are ticked
ticked. Register this connection's addresses in DNS is ticked.
WINS: WINS addresses blank. Enable LM Hosts lookup and Enable Netbios over
TCP/IP both ticked.
Options: Optional Settings: TCP/IP filtering. Properties: TCP/IP Filtering:
Enable TCP/IP Filtering NOT ticked. All 3 " Permit All" boxes ticked.

Also CP/Administrative Tools/Services/Computer Browser, DHCP Client, DNS
Client, Network Connections, Network Location Awareness, Network
Provisioning, TCP/IP NetBios Helper, Network DDE, Network LM Security
Support= all Started and Automatic
Net Logon = Automatic but refuses to start.

General Progress. I am getting some success with printers but no pattern.

I do hope I have not given too much info., but I thought that the time it
has taken me would be well spent.
Thanks again.

Incidentally, I tried to munge my email address after reading your advice to
another guy, but don't know how to do it. I use Outlook Express 6 - perhaps
you could also help with this as I do get a lot of spam and NGs, I think are
the reason.

In Windows 98, the "Enable NetBIOS over TCP/IP" box is normally checked and
grayed out, as NBT is a default in Windows 98. If it’s un-checked, click the
box to put in a check mark.
<http://www.practicallynetworked.com/sharing/troubleshoot/netbt.htm>

The information above, while useful in the long term, is a bit more than
necessary right now. To start, please examine the Local Area Connection -
Properties on each computer, and verify that the following items (only) are
present:
Client for Microsoft Networks
File and Printer Sharing For Microsoft Networks
QoS Packet Scheduler (optional, on XP only)
Internet Protocol (TCP/IP)

Then verify that NBT is enabled.

If all that's there, then provide ipconfig information for each computer.
Start - Run - "cmd". Type "ipconfig /all >c:\ipconfig.txt" into the command
window - Open c:\ipconfig.txt in Notepad, make sure that Format - Word Wrap is
NOT checked!, copy and paste entire contents into your next post. Identify
operating system (by name, version, and SP level) with each ipconfig listing.

--
Cheers,
Chuck
Paranoia comes from experience - and is not necessarily a bad thing.
My email is AT DOT
actual address pchuck sonic net.

 

[ATK]

Many thanks.
All is now well(3 x W98 and an XP) so far as file sharing is concerned,
although I am bound say that I was at that point a while ago: nevertheless
having read a lot and having given thought to what has been stated about
Netbeui, I am now pleased to having jettisoned it, and for that I thank you.
On the subject of printer networking, I find that once one of my computers
has configured a printer (using IP address), any attempt by another printer
results in the printer being permanently declared to be off-line and the
only way another computer can use it is thru "sharing" which rather defeats
the objective.
I know there must be a way to do this but I feel I am spending hours
re-inventing the wheel.
Can you point me in the direction of some source which covers this please.

Also, please help me with the "munge" thing.
Again thanks: the help and time you guys put into this is appreciated.
Regards.

 

[ATK]

That's good news about the NetBEUI issue - thanks for the feedback.
I think with more results like yours folks here will see the reality
- that NetBEUI simply isn't needed on a Windows LAN.

Regarding the printer issue - your problem report needs some work.
Can you please explain in some detail what you're trying to do, and
what error or other condition you're seeing?

Regarding the munging - I see from your headers that you're using
Outlook Express for email and news reading. I believe,
unfortunately, that, with Outlook / Outlook Express, munging may be
difficult. With news reader programs like Agent, you can designate a
specific "From:" setting (mine being "Chuck <[email protected]>",
while still allowing you to send and receive email thru your actual
email server and mailbox.

If there is any way to hide your identity, you may be able to find
help in microsoft.public.outlook, or microsoft.public.outlook.general.

I did a brief Google, and came up with a thread about munging
Outlook, but nothing yet about Outlook Express.

http://groups-beta.google.com/group..._doneTitle=Back+to+Search&&d#e96c0966fe2c95b5

I really do appreciate the time you have given to this. I have 3 printers
(HPLJ4 Plus, HPLJ5N and a QMS Magicolor 2 Desklaser) and 4 computers.
To simplify matters I will concentrate on the 2 HP printers and a W98 and an
XP PRO computer. All computers and printers have own IP address
(192.168.1.n) and are directly attached to a Vigor 2600 and connected 8-port
Netgear switch.
The HPLJ4 has been separately configured on both computers without any
trouble (NOT shared). To prove this point and maintain my sanity I am
checking this as I compose this.
First of all, I have just printed to the LJ4 from both computers and
confirmed that neither computer is shared. This is obviously the situation I
have been trying to achieve for about 2/3 weeks now.
I have deleted the LJ5N from both computers and will now try to configure to
each computer. I expect to configure to the first without any problem, but
when I get to the second computer I will be informed it is off-line.
Configure LJ5N to W98.
CP/Printers/Add Printer/Network Printer/Network Path 192.168.1.n.
""This Network printer is currently off-line. You can instal the printer
now, but you will not be able to print to it until it comes back on-line""
Print Wizard to identify HP LJ5N/Keep existing driver/printer name/
Printer is correctly added to Printers, but off-line.
***********
This is NOT what I expected as this printer is definately not configured to
any other computers, but see XP configuration.

LJ5N to XP.
Without going thru the details this configured without problem, but during
the configuration I was offerred the IP address from a drop-down list, thus
(I think) being the reason that the printer was (and is) off-line to the W98
computer.
************
I find it difficult to understand why the LJ4 was OK and yet a very similar
printer is not.
My gut feeling is that I should start from scratch by removing all the
printer IP addresses but I don't know how to do this. I remember there was a
way to list all of my IP addresses, but for the moment my memory is letting
me down.
I would like to say Chuck that I am not trying to take the easy way out by
passing on the problem to you. I have spent many hours over the past 2/3
weeks on this problem. Additionally I have searched the internet and I have
looked at all the sites that you and others have suggested - which I had
already done anyway.
I will attempt anything you suggest, irrespective of how much effort is
involved.
Thanks again.

 

[Chuck]

On Fri, 4 Mar 2005 14:42:28 -0000, "ATK" <*email_address_deleted*> wrote:

I really do appreciate the time you have given to this. I have 3 printers
(HPLJ4 Plus, HPLJ5N and a QMS Magicolor 2 Desklaser) and 4 computers.
To simplify matters I will concentrate on the 2 HP printers and a W98 and an
XP PRO computer. All computers and printers have own IP address
(192.168.1.n) and are directly attached to a Vigor 2600 and connected 8-port
Netgear switch.
The HPLJ4 has been separately configured on both computers without any
trouble (NOT shared). To prove this point and maintain my sanity I am
checking this as I compose this.
First of all, I have just printed to the LJ4 from both computers and
confirmed that neither computer is shared. This is obviously the situation I
have been trying to achieve for about 2/3 weeks now.
I have deleted the LJ5N from both computers and will now try to configure to
each computer. I expect to configure to the first without any problem, but
when I get to the second computer I will be informed it is off-line.
Configure LJ5N to W98.
CP/Printers/Add Printer/Network Printer/Network Path 192.168.1.n.
""This Network printer is currently off-line. You can instal the printer
now, but you will not be able to print to it until it comes back on-line""
Print Wizard to identify HP LJ5N/Keep existing driver/printer name/
Printer is correctly added to Printers, but off-line.
***********
This is NOT what I expected as this printer is definately not configured to
any other computers, but see XP configuration.

LJ5N to XP.
Without going thru the details this configured without problem, but during
the configuration I was offerred the IP address from a drop-down list, thus
(I think) being the reason that the printer was (and is) off-line to the W98
computer.
************
I find it difficult to understand why the LJ4 was OK and yet a very similar
printer is not.
My gut feeling is that I should start from scratch by removing all the
printer IP addresses but I don't know how to do this. I remember there was a
way to list all of my IP addresses, but for the moment my memory is letting
me down.
I would like to say Chuck that I am not trying to take the easy way out by
passing on the problem to you. I have spent many hours over the past 2/3
weeks on this problem. Additionally I have searched the internet and I have
looked at all the sites that you and others have suggested - which I had
already done anyway.
I will attempt anything you suggest, irrespective of how much effort is
involved.
Thanks again.

This is going to be fun.

I've been working with networks, and with printing thru networks, for a few
years. One thing I've learned is that with an assortment of printers, each
different model will have its own personality, and its own successes and
failures.

In addition to having an assortment of printers, you have an assortment of
computers. Again yielding personality.

Let's start by inventorying everything, so I can get a coherent picture of your
LAN.

The Microsoft Browstat program will show us what browsers (I'm not talking about
Internet Explorer here) you have in your domain / workgroup, at any time.
http://support.microsoft.com/?id=188305

You can download Browstat from either:
<http://www.dynawell.com/reskit/microsoft/win2000/browstat.zip>
<http://rescomp.stanford.edu/staff/manual/rcc/tools/browstat.zip>

Browstat is very small (40K), and needs no install. Just unzip the downloaded
file, copy browstat.exe to any folder in the Path, and run it from a command
window, by "browstat status", as part of the procedure specified below.

For more information about the browser subsystem (very intricate), see:
http://support.microsoft.com/?id=188001
http://support.microsoft.com/?id=188305
http://support.microsoft.com/?id=231312
<http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winntas/deploy/prodspecs/ntbrowse.mspx>
<http://www.microsoft.com/technet/archive/win95/w95brows.mspx>

OK, having installed browstat in a Path folder (important), let's gather
information. From each computer, open a command window (Start - Run - "cmd").
Enter the following commands in sequence (pay attention to the ">" vs ">>"!!):

"ipconfig /all >c:\cinvent.txt"
"net share >>c:\cinvent.txt"
"net use >>c:\cinvent.txt"
"browstat status >>c:\cinvent.txt"
"net view >>c:\cinvent.txt"

Having entered all of that, extract the contents of c:\cinvent.txt, and post it
here. You may want to post separate messages, as the files may get large.
- Start - Run - "cmd".
- Open Notepad.
- Make sure that Format - Word Wrap is NOT checked!.
- Open file c:\cinvent.txt from Notepad.
- Select All (Ctrl-A), Copy (Ctrl-C), then paste (Ctrl-V) entire contents into
your next post.
- Identify operating system (by name (Windows 98? Windows XP?), version (XP
Home? Pro?), and Service Pack level) with each listing.

Give us an organised printer inventory too please, with details as complete as
you can (ip addresses wouldn't be wasteful either).

Oh yeah, do you have a first name? Makes it easier for me to write.

If you feel more secure (and it would be more efficient too), you may email me
with this information (my address below - please do NOT type here what you think
it is, just email). Better than cluttering up the forum with several long posts
of details.

--
Cheers,
Chuck
Paranoia comes from experience - and is not necessarily a bad thing.
My email is AT DOT
actual address pchuck sonic net.

 

[ATK]

I thought I had emailed you yesterday but it failed - I'm afraid I don't
understand your instructions.
Maybe not the best order, but here are some details of my configuration -
I'm sending them early so that if anything is missing you can let me know
and it will reduce overall timescale.

Vigor 2600 router/switch with attached Netgear 8-port switch.
All the hardware is attached to router/switch.
IPs are:
192.168.1 for all, then:
1 Gateway
10 XP PRO (SP2) named K8N (I use MB to identify)
11 W98SE named KG7 (may crop up as KG7RAID)
12 W98SE named TI15VG
13 W98SE named Notebook13 (Maybe IBM)
22 HP LaserJet 4 Plus
50 QMS Magicolor 2 DeskLaser (the latest driver available is not liked by
XP)
55 HP LaserJet 5N Duplex.

Results of test running for XP (K8N) are:

XP PRO (Service Pack 2) Computer is K8N
***********************************
Windows IP Configuration Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : k8n
Primary Dns Suffix . . . . . . . : Node Type . . . . . . . . . . .
.. : Unknown IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No WINS Proxy
Enabled. . . . . . . . : NoEthernet adapter Local Area Connection:
Connection-specific DNS Suffix . : Description . . . . . . . . . .
.. : NVIDIA nForce Networking Controller Physical Address. . . . . . .
.. . : 00-11-09-2D-1C-A6 Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes IP Address. . . . . . . . . .
.. . : 192.168.1.10 Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1 DHCP Server . . . . .
.. . . . . . : 192.168.1.1 DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . :
212.23.8.1 212.23.8.6
Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : 04 March 2005 14:05:03 Lease
Expires . . . . . . . . . . : 07 March 2005 14:05:03
************************************************************
Share name Resource Remark

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
E$ E:\ Default share
IPC$ Remote IPC
D$ D:\ Default share
J$ J:\ Default share
print$ C:\WINDOWS\system32\spool\drivers
Printer Drivers
I$ I:\ Default share
K$ K:\ Default share
C$ C:\ Default share
G$ G:\ Default share
M$ M:\ Default share
H$ H:\ Default share
F$ F:\ Default share
ADMIN$ C:\WINDOWS Remote Admin
L$ L:\ Default share
K8N Progs D:\
K8N XP PRO C:\
SharedDocs C:\DOCUMENTS AND SETTINGS\ALL USERS\DOCUMENTS

The command completed successfully.
***************************************************

New connections will be remembered.

There are no entries in the list.
************************************

Status for domain WG on transport
\Device\NetBT_Tcpip_{5FF0202A-675B-4991-B486-7571F9BB4203}
Browsing is active on domain.
Master browser name is: K8N
Master browser is running build 2600
1 backup servers retrieved from master K8N
\\K8N
There are 3 servers in domain WG on transport
\Device\NetBT_Tcpip_{5FF0202A-675B-4991-B486-7571F9BB4203}
There are 1 domains in domain WG on transport
\Device\NetBT_Tcpip_{5FF0202A-675B-4991-B486-7571F9BB4203}
*************************************

On attempting to run on first W98 I got:

""Error Starting Program.
The BROWSTAT.EXE file is linked to missing export
NETAPI32.DLL:I_BrowserQueryEmulatedDomains.
OK""

I couldn't find the DLL on the W98 comp. so I copied across the XP version
into drive c: but got the same answer. I'm sure I'm missing something
obvious.
Perhaps you could point me in right direction.
Thanks,
Tony
PS Note I have top posted. Do you have a preference?

 

[Chuck]

I thought I had emailed you yesterday but it failed - I'm afraid I don't
understand your instructions.
Maybe not the best order, but here are some details of my configuration -
I'm sending them early so that if anything is missing you can let me know
and it will reduce overall timescale.

Vigor 2600 router/switch with attached Netgear 8-port switch.
All the hardware is attached to router/switch.
IPs are:
192.168.1 for all, then:
1 Gateway
10 XP PRO (SP2) named K8N (I use MB to identify)
11 W98SE named KG7 (may crop up as KG7RAID)
12 W98SE named TI15VG
13 W98SE named Notebook13 (Maybe IBM)
22 HP LaserJet 4 Plus
50 QMS Magicolor 2 DeskLaser (the latest driver available is not liked by
XP)
55 HP LaserJet 5N Duplex.

Results of test running for XP (K8N) are:

XP PRO (Service Pack 2) Computer is K8N
***********************************
Windows IP Configuration Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : k8n
Primary Dns Suffix . . . . . . . : Node Type . . . . . . . . . . .
. : Unknown IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No WINS Proxy
Enabled. . . . . . . . : NoEthernet adapter Local Area Connection:
Connection-specific DNS Suffix . : Description . . . . . . . . . .
. : NVIDIA nForce Networking Controller Physical Address. . . . . . .
. . : 00-11-09-2D-1C-A6 Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes IP Address. . . . . . . . . .
. . : 192.168.1.10 Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1 DHCP Server . . . . .
. . . . . . : 192.168.1.1 DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . :
212.23.8.1 212.23.8.6
Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : 04 March 2005 14:05:03 Lease
Expires . . . . . . . . . . : 07 March 2005 14:05:03
************************************************************
Share name Resource Remark

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
E$ E:\ Default share
IPC$ Remote IPC
D$ D:\ Default share
J$ J:\ Default share
print$ C:\WINDOWS\system32\spool\drivers
Printer Drivers
I$ I:\ Default share
K$ K:\ Default share
C$ C:\ Default share
G$ G:\ Default share
M$ M:\ Default share
H$ H:\ Default share
F$ F:\ Default share
ADMIN$ C:\WINDOWS Remote Admin
L$ L:\ Default share
K8N Progs D:\
K8N XP PRO C:\
SharedDocs C:\DOCUMENTS AND SETTINGS\ALL USERS\DOCUMENTS

The command completed successfully.
***************************************************

New connections will be remembered.

There are no entries in the list.
************************************

Status for domain WG on transport
\Device\NetBT_Tcpip_{5FF0202A-675B-4991-B486-7571F9BB4203}
Browsing is active on domain.
Master browser name is: K8N
Master browser is running build 2600
1 backup servers retrieved from master K8N
\\K8N
There are 3 servers in domain WG on transport
\Device\NetBT_Tcpip_{5FF0202A-675B-4991-B486-7571F9BB4203}
There are 1 domains in domain WG on transport
\Device\NetBT_Tcpip_{5FF0202A-675B-4991-B486-7571F9BB4203}
*************************************

On attempting to run on first W98 I got:

""Error Starting Program.
The BROWSTAT.EXE file is linked to missing export
NETAPI32.DLL:I_BrowserQueryEmulatedDomains.
OK""

I couldn't find the DLL on the W98 comp. so I copied across the XP version
into drive c: but got the same answer. I'm sure I'm missing something
obvious.
Perhaps you could point me in right direction.
Thanks,
Tony
PS Note I have top posted. Do you have a preference?

Tony,

A: Maybe because some people are too annoyed by top-posting.
Q: Why do I not get an answer to my question(s)?
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Because it changes the order you read a conversation.
Q: Why is top-posting so annoying?
A: Top-posting!
Q: What is the most annoying thing in newsgroups?

I personally prefer bottom posting, and wish everybody else did the same.
Bottom posting requires you to trim (snip) old posts, and in some cases reply
in-line, but it provides threads easier to read anyway it's used.

Browstat, a very useful tool, will unfortunately not run on Win95/98/ME. Since
you have multiple Win98 computers, I will bet that one or more of the Win98
computers are acting as master browsers too, which conflicts with K8N seeing
itself as the master browser.

Make sure the browser service is Stopped and Disabled on K8N, from Control Panel
- Administrative Tools - Services. Then restart K8N.

The IP inventory is a good start to showing the complexity of your LAN. But
just a start.

Even though you can't run browstat on KG7, TI15VG, or Notebook13, the other
utilities may provide useful information, or at least let us get a coherent idea
of the scope of the problem.

Take a look at the IPConfig that you posted for K8N, see if you can read it. If
you can produce and post the IPConfig data so it looks more like the following
(my example), it will be a lot easier to analyse your problem.

Windows IP Configuration

Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : MyComp
Primary Dns Suffix . . . . . . . :
Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Broadcast
IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
DNS Suffix Search List. . . . . . : myhome.net

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : 3Com EtherLink XL 10/100 PCI For
Complete PC Management NIC (3C905C-TX)
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-04-76-D7-E2-BA
Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.001.50
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.001.1
DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.001.1
DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 10.201.99.11
10.201.99.33
Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : Wednesday, April 16, 2003 11:53:45
Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : Wednesday, April 23, 2003 11:53:45

--
Cheers,
Chuck
Paranoia comes from experience - and is not necessarily a bad thing.
My email is AT DOT
actual address pchuck sonic net.