Just an FYI

[RWS]

Maybe nobody cares, but FYI after 1 May 2005 all Microsoft Windows XP Phone
Support will be handled by Canadian or Indian support technicians.
Outsourcing. American workers out of jobs so that Microsoft can save on
support costs. By the way this will apply to Windows 2000 support also.

http://support.microsoft.com/oas/default.aspx?&c1=509&gprid=3221

http://support.microsoft.com/oas/default.aspx?ln=en-us&c1=509&prid=3518&gprid=185522

 

[Mike Hall \(MS-MVP\)]

RWS

If you want cheap products, then accept that cheap products are made by a
workforce that is prepared to work cheap.. in order to keep costs down, some
services have been transferred outside of US borders.. many companies have
done this in Europe too.. Japan does it..

Maybe American workers should look at their expectations and re-assess
them.. comments like yours are on a level with Lou Dobbs of CNN.. it is easy
enough to produce an emotive statement when you take certain facts away from
their history and then present them in isolation..

You would do well to take a college course in business accounting and all
that entails.. you might then have a better idea of how industry operates
its cash flow, and you would start to understand why companies decide to
outsource..

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

The last I heard, 6 million Americans work in jobs here outsourced from
other countries to the US, especially from Japan. Be careful what you wish
for, you may get it.

 

[RWS]

Spoken like a guy who has not lost HIS job to outsourcing. How convenient.
I am sure that American workers are so very appreciative of your lecture.

 

[Mike Hall \(MS-MVP\)]

RWS

Get yourself some education re. how commerce works, then make a statement
based on real facts.. emotive statements may work with the 'less than well
educated masses', but they do not 'cut it' for me or people like me..

And in defence of the 'less than well educated masses', maybe you could
campaign for better standards of education for them..

Many of the 'illegal aliens' within US borders do the worst kind of jobs..
work that is shunned by the 'white American' majority as being badly paid,
shitty and not the essence of the American Dream..

Outsourcing is a direct result of jobs requiring some decent level of
education having to be given to people who are prepared to expect a lower
standard of pay so that people back in the Homeland can still buy cheap
goods..

Why don't you offer to run a call centre and accept a low rate of pay for
doing it?.. all you need is maybe 100 staff willing to work for not a great
deal and all of the equipment necessary to set up a call centre.. it will
cost much to set it up, of course.. probably way more than any expected
income derived from it.. that's the nature of call centres.. a necessary
evil in accounting terms.. and when some of your staff realise that they
have to know and learn a whole hell of a lot and don't seem to be keeping up
with other wage earners, just tell them that they are Americans doing
American jobs and should be grateful for that..


--
Mike Hall
MVP - Windows Shell/user

 

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

Well said by someone who believes the U.S.A. is all that is important.
Perhaps you should open your eyes.
You may then see that many people you just posted to are not in your
country.
Be careful what you assume next!

 

[RWS]

So thoughtful of you to introduce profanity into the conversation...
Love your snobbish attitude toward us "less than well educated masses".
I happen to be one of those. I worked for twenty years as an underground
miner and after the third mine in a row shut down due to foreign
competition,
I went to a tech school for nine months and then got a job doing phone
support
for Microsoft (through a company that they contracted).

Excuse me, but the reality of Call Center work and your perception of it are
very
much estranged, at least as far as in supporting Microsoft Windows 2000 and
XP
are concerned. Believe me, a lot is demanded and expected by Microsoft for
less
than $12.00 an hour (many only making $9.50) and now they pay the Indians
and
Canadians substantially less. Funny thing though, the people I have been
dealing
with the past five years do not seem to consider Microsoft Operating Systems
to
be "cheap goods" as you so adamantly assert. I could eventually be proved
wrong,
but it is my opinion that the quality of Microsoft support is going to
spiral down as
they try to suppress wages ever lower and lower and accelerate the revolving
door
of uncommited, uncaring future support techs.

I am currently striving to achieve MCSA for Windows Server 2003 (Self
Study) -
I have A+, MCSE (NT 4.0), and CCNA

I am no longer young and now cannot help but wonder about age discrimination
when applying for jobs. But I guess according to you, I should now consider
getting
getting an MBA. Thanks...

 

[RWS]

Gee, I guess I assumed that anybody that read my comment
would realize that it was directed only to Mike Hall and not
to everyone who happened to read it. I guess YOU assumed that
everyone that reads these posts is not able to make such distinctions.

For the record, sir, I do not believe that the U.S.A. is all that matters.
I do believe that expressing concern about outsourcing is a legitimate
matter and that it is those of you who have never been directly affected
by it are the ones who only see it as some abstract economic entity.

 

[Guest]

Spoken like a guy who has not lost HIS job to outsourcing. How convenient.
I am sure that American workers are so very appreciative of your lecture.

Between my wife and me we have lost approx.$70.000 US a year (household
income) from outsourcing. It is sad news to know that MS has joined the
club,The US gov. is no longer by the people,for the people, instead it is by
the corparation and for the corparation.
Their is an end to my loss via outsourcing through,my profession
(aviation) is outsourcing to latin America and China like gangbusters this
WILL stop after a few aircraft take a nose dive into the ground and the cause
is ID as maintenance.
NO, I am not trying to sound cold but this is the reality of it, the FAA has
always been a reactive bureaucracy,and the American public seems to think
that it is their right to fly coast to coast for less money than a greyhound
ticket.

 

[Guest]

The last I heard, 6 million Americans work in jobs here outsourced from
other countries to the US, especially from Japan. Be careful what you wish
for, you may get it.

But Japan is one of those countries that won't allow US biz over there,and
they are here for what is by their standards "cheap labor".

Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine]
(Reply to the group only unless otherwise requested)

Maybe nobody cares, but FYI after 1 May 2005 all Microsoft Windows XP
Phone Support will be handled by Canadian or Indian support technicians.
Outsourcing. American workers out of jobs so that Microsoft can save on
support costs. By the way this will apply to Windows 2000 support also.

http://support.microsoft.com/oas/default.aspx?&c1=509&gprid=3221

http://support.microsoft.com/oas/default.aspx?ln=en-us&c1=509&prid=3518&gprid=185522

 

[Mike Hall \(MS-MVP\)]

RWS

I am a Euro citizen living in Canada.. I know all about mine shutdowns in
England Wales, and the closure of the shipyards in Scotland.. I saw the UK
car and motorcycle companies fall to the competition from overseas.. my
family's business relied on car workers being employed, and when they no
longer were, that was the end of us too.. I had to go looking for other
types of work while learning and training to do other things.. a nation that
was once leader in the industrial revolution has been reduced to scrap,
scabbling to get a hold of the service industry because there is little else
left.. workers unions fought to save jobs and wages, but they were as
'corrupt' as they claimed 'management' to be..

I also realise that when wage levels and expectations get so high that the
unit cost of production items goes above the level where the buying public,
some of them on not such high wages, can no longer afford goods, the
manufacturers have to find ways to cut costs.. the trouble is that we get
used to a certain level in life, and when called upon to take reductions to
save a company, we don't like it..

If you pick up any Canadian souvenir these days, invariably, it will have a
label on it that reads "made in China".. they are made there because labour
is so cheap that they can afford to make, package and ship the items for way
less than it would cost to pay the expected wages that Canadians would want
for doing the same thing.. some of these souvenirs are sold in 'dollar
stores'!!!!!.. if you were visiting Canada and wanted to take a keepsake
back with you, would you rather pay $30 for it to help sustain the Canadian
industry, or pay $1?

At one time, Japan and Taiwan were seen as the big bad wolves, but even they
have been sidestepped now by Korea which is now seeing threats from even
cheaper locations.. it is not just the US that is or has suffered in this
way.. yes, of course it is sad.. of course, it is not good for any nation,
but as long as we want or demand cheap goods, it is the way that commerce
and industry will go.. maybe in time, the tables will turn and the 'West'
will become the place to make stuff cheaply..

I will ask this of you.. please buy a Jeep.. I want you to do this to
support the marque because they are struggling to get a market share.. if
Jeep go down, I will struggle to find a vehicle that can get me around when
Canada is snow bound.. I have a Jeep now, but can't afford a new one because
of other commitments presently.. I am not asking much really, just for you
to support an American company and the jobs there.. you will feel better
about it, and I will get the benefit of a good American made product than
makes getting around way easier for me..

Post back and tell me what you bought.. the colour and spec.. I love Jeeps..
the new Grand Cherokee is cool in Hemi version, and only $57000 here not
including taxes.. if I was paid more for what I do, I might even order two
of them, his and hers (fat chance).. how about it?


--
Mike Hall
MVP - Windows Shell/user

 

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

I realized that and made the distinction.
But I also read your other post.
I took all your posts into account, not just the single post.
The combination of your posts together tell a more complete story.
While that specific post was directed at Mike, you invited everyone to
comment.

As for "...those of you who have never been directly affected..."
This seems like another assumption on your part.
But perhaps you could clarify.

 

[ajv2003]

:




But Japan is one of those countries that won't allow US biz over there,and
they are here for what is by their standards "cheap labor".

I beg to differ. Japan open car manufacturing because the US and NAFTA treatened
to lock them out with tarif barriers. Japan Inc, than decided to manufacture
here, I mean assemble here. Nothing to do with cheap labor. They'll probably
move out as soon as their factories in China are online.


---
avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
Virus Database (VPS): 0513-1, 03/30/2005
Tested on: 3/30/2005 6:42:37 PM
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2004 ALWIL Software.
http://www.avast.com