Issues with site for MACs....assist please

[CD]

I am having problems with a user viewing the site using a Mac with IE5.2.
It looks good with Safari and PC IE.



I used cell background images on the site. The problem is



1) The menu is not showing the top and bottom graphic that finish out the
menu border. As a test I added a spacer.gif to the top and sized it to the
height of the background image. I left the bottom as is for the test. This
is a include page to the main page. What puzzles me is that I am using
fixed cell sizes and it is collapsing. The direct link to the menu is
http://www.frankkimmel.com/menu.html. In typing this I noticed that the
page is ending in .html and the others are .htm. I am not sure what the
difference would be.



2) On the main page I can't nail why the waist and below body shot is not
lining up to the top body shot. It is in a different table but I have
called double checking the borders,padding,spacing are set to 0.

http://www.frankkimmel.com/default0.htm



To boot the main page has cell background images with nothing in the cells
and I am not having any problems.



I also welcome constructive criticism as I learn the web world and FP2003.



TIA

CD

 

[Stefan B Rusynko]

Stitching image using cell backgrounds is not recommended as you do not have the control over cell / image size / location you need
(use the images in the cells and set all cell/image properties - cell sizes 2 px less than the images)
- not all browser handle table/cell display the same so there will often be a several px mismatch if you use cell backgrounds
- all your tables do not have the same cell padding / cell spacing set, and all closing tags should be on the same line as the
opening tag cells
- also use transparent gifs in the cells a spacers - instead of font tags (&nbsp or you will get unpredictable results based on
users font size settings
- your image preload scripts from the include pages are better if they are in the main pages head section
- your page also falls apart in NN4x browsers

--




| I am having problems with a user viewing the site using a Mac with IE5.2.
| It looks good with Safari and PC IE.
|
|
|
| I used cell background images on the site. The problem is
|
|
|
| 1) The menu is not showing the top and bottom graphic that finish out the
| menu border. As a test I added a spacer.gif to the top and sized it to the
| height of the background image. I left the bottom as is for the test. This
| is a include page to the main page. What puzzles me is that I am using
| fixed cell sizes and it is collapsing. The direct link to the menu is
| http://www.frankkimmel.com/menu.html. In typing this I noticed that the
| page is ending in .html and the others are .htm. I am not sure what the
| difference would be.
|
|
|
| 2) On the main page I can't nail why the waist and below body shot is not
| lining up to the top body shot. It is in a different table but I have
| called double checking the borders,padding,spacing are set to 0.
|
| http://www.frankkimmel.com/default0.htm
|
|
|
| To boot the main page has cell background images with nothing in the cells
| and I am not having any problems.
|
|
|
| I also welcome constructive criticism as I learn the web world and FP2003.
|
|
|
| TIA
|
| CD
|
|

 

[Stefan B Rusynko]

PS
Your bottom cell collapses because it is empty
<td height="52" background="images/Menu/MenuBottom.gif">
</td>
Add a spacer image the size of the image to both cells (or apply them as images instead of cell backgrounds)

IMHO
you may want to consider a vertical column table layout instead of a horizontal nested table one
--




| Stitching image using cell backgrounds is not recommended as you do not have the control over cell / image size / location you
need
| (use the images in the cells and set all cell/image properties - cell sizes 2 px less than the images)
| - not all browser handle table/cell display the same so there will often be a several px mismatch if you use cell backgrounds
| - all your tables do not have the same cell padding / cell spacing set, and all closing tags should be on the same line as the
| opening tag cells
| - also use transparent gifs in the cells a spacers - instead of font tags (&nbsp or you will get unpredictable results based on
| users font size settings
| - your image preload scripts from the include pages are better if they are in the main pages head section
| - your page also falls apart in NN4x browsers
|
| --
|
| _____________________________________________
| SBR @ ENJOY (-: [ Microsoft MVP - FrontPage ]
| "Warning - Using the F1 Key will not break anything!" (-;
| To find the best Newsgroup for FrontPage support see:
| http://www.net-sites.com/sitebuilder/newsgroups.asp
| _____________________________________________
|
|
| | I am having problems with a user viewing the site using a Mac with IE5.2.
| | It looks good with Safari and PC IE.
| |
| |
| |
| | I used cell background images on the site. The problem is
| |
| |
| |
| | 1) The menu is not showing the top and bottom graphic that finish out the
| | menu border. As a test I added a spacer.gif to the top and sized it to the
| | height of the background image. I left the bottom as is for the test. This
| | is a include page to the main page. What puzzles me is that I am using
| | fixed cell sizes and it is collapsing. The direct link to the menu is
| | http://www.frankkimmel.com/menu.html. In typing this I noticed that the
| | page is ending in .html and the others are .htm. I am not sure what the
| | difference would be.
| |
| |
| |
| | 2) On the main page I can't nail why the waist and below body shot is not
| | lining up to the top body shot. It is in a different table but I have
| | called double checking the borders,padding,spacing are set to 0.
| |
| | http://www.frankkimmel.com/default0.htm
| |
| |
| |
| | To boot the main page has cell background images with nothing in the cells
| | and I am not having any problems.
| |
| |
| |
| | I also welcome constructive criticism as I learn the web world and FP2003.
| |
| |
| |
| | TIA
| |
| | CD
| |
| |
|
|

 

[CD]

Ouch... Thanks for the input. I welcome knowledge and experince from
others. But now you generated more questions since I am unclear on some of
your comments.

?> Stitching image using cell backgrounds is not recommended as you do not
have the control over cell / image size / location you need
How do you get around if the table/cell is going to have something else in
it also, ie..table, text.

?> all closing tags should be on the same line as the opening tag cells
how far up? should one table be all on one line? or just the subcomponents
ie..row?

?> - also use transparent gifs in the cells a spacers - instead of font
tags (&nbsp or you will get unpredictable results based on

users font size settings

does the spacer just need to 1x1 in size? by default FP is doing the font
tag, is there a way to set FP to do otherwise?

?> - your page also falls apart in NN4x browsers
what platform were you using? I tired this morning on the MAC with NN7.2
and everything looked correct.

?>OTHER EMAIL..you may want to consider a vertical column table layout
instead of a horizontal nested table one
I dont follow what you are refering to?

Thanks again for your comments.

 

[Stefan B Rusynko]

See inline

--




| Ouch... Thanks for the input. I welcome knowledge and experince from
| others. But now you generated more questions since I am unclear on some of
| your comments.
|
| ?> Stitching image using cell backgrounds is not recommended as you do not
| have the control over cell / image size / location you need
| How do you get around if the table/cell is going to have something else in
| it also, ie..table, text.

In that case you need to use a cell background - but I didn't see that in your page

|
| ?> all closing tags should be on the same line as the opening tag cells
| how far up? should one table be all on one line? or just the subcomponents
| ie..row?
No just the cell tags (<td> ...</td>)
|
| ?> - also use transparent gifs in the cells a spacers - instead of font
| tags (&nbsp or you will get unpredictable results based on
| > users font size settings
| does the spacer just need to 1x1 in size? by default FP is doing the font
| tag, is there a way to set FP to do otherwise?
It will add it to any cell that is empty - delete it in code view and add you spacer
If you use cell backgrounds make the spacer the size of the bk image - 2 px

|
| ?> - your page also falls apart in NN4x browsers
| what platform were you using? I tired this morning on the MAC with NN7.2
| and everything looked correct.

Win XP IE6 & NN4.79

|
| ?>OTHER EMAIL..you may want to consider a vertical column table layout
| instead of a horizontal nested table one
| I dont follow what you are refering to?

May be easier to reduce the splits of the tall image on the right by using a vertical single cell (multi-row) for it as in this
simple example
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%" id="table1">
<tr>
<td colspan="2">Your topbanner</td>
<td rowspan="3" align="left" width="200" valign="top">Your tall image</td>
</tr><tr>
<td >Your menu</td>
<td>Your Content</td>
</tr>
</table>

|
| Thanks again for your comments.
|
|

 

[CD]

Hum...safe to assume if it works with NN4.79 it will work with newer
version?

 

[Thomas A. Rowe]

No.

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WEBMASTER Resources(tm)

FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================

 

[CD]

Well that bites

Is there a version of NS and IE to use as a guideline for web development
and assume that everything would be compatible with new versions?

OR screw them and worry about the current versions?

 

[Murray]

If you want to support as many browsers as possible then you must test on at
least these -

PC - IE6, IE5.5, FF1, NN4x, Opera(?).
Mac - Safari, FF1, NN4x, IE5x, Opera(?)

Each of those will interpret anything other than standard code (i.e., code
you can validate as HTML4.01 at http://www.w3.org ) differently, and NN4x is
a standout at interpreting everything a bit differently. Even with standard
code, you will encounter differences comparing IE6 to any other browser.

But - the decision of what to support is up to you based on your client and
their customers....

 

[Stefan B Rusynko]

There are still enough level 4 browser users out there according to user stats, that you shouldn't ignore them if you want the site
at least viewable to all (or to gracefully degrade)

What's happening under NN4 is your empty cells and cells w/o a bk image are tiling the bk image for the parent table cell or other
cells in the table w/ a bk
If you apply cell bk images you need to do it for all cells in a table (and any nested tables)

Or don't use bk images if you can absolutely avoid it (especially w/ tight stitching)

Your layout could be make to work in NN4 and the current versions of NN and other browser

--




| Well that bites
|
| Is there a version of NS and IE to use as a guideline for web development
| and assume that everything would be compatible with new versions?
|
| OR screw them and worry about the current versions?
|
| | > No.
| >
| > --
| > ==============================================
| > Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
| > WEBMASTER Resources(tm)
| >
| > FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
| > ==============================================
| > To assist you in getting the best answers for FrontPage support see:
| > http://www.net-sites.com/sitebuilder/newsgroups.asp
| >
| | > > Hum...safe to assume if it works with NN4.79 it will work with newer
| > > version?
| > >
| > >
| >
| >
|
|