Is there a benefit in upgrading an IDE laptop with a SATA SSD ?

[DevilsPGD]

It's not the speed you'll need it for, it's the support for the SSD's
TRIM command that it'll be needed. Windows Vista, 7, or 8 have support
for the TRIM command, but not XP.

Actually a far better option for you would be one of the Linux distros.
It'll work much better on the older hardware, as it has lower memory
requirements, and has support for TRIM. But it may not have support for
the applications you would want to run, unfortunately.

W8 does surprisingly well with very little memory. I've got VMs that use
~500MB when idle and never go over 1GB even when in use.

 

[guilbert.stabilo]

Le dimanche 2 juin 2013 16:49:03 UTC 2, (e-mail address removed) a écrit :

Thanks in advance for your opinions.

Hi all,

I just received all the components so I can upgrade the HDD to SSD so here is my feedback.

First of all, as mentioned, the HP DV4070EA has an IDE connector. I found some compact IDE to SATA convertors on eBay but there all were too large forthe laptop case.

I finally bought a 2nd HDD caddy integrating an IDE to SATA convertor installed in the optical bay (DVD are not used anymore today ;-)).

I did some read benchmarks where the SSD was connected to a more recent home computer running Windows 7 on a Q6600 CPU and then on the laptop.

* Crucial M4 128GB SDD installed in Gigabyte P35-DS4 Intel Q6600 computer -SATA2 controller

Average read speed: 221.2 MB/s
Access time: 0.155 ms

* Crucial M4 128GB SDD installed in HP DV4070EA Pentium M740 computer - Ultra-ATA/100

Average read speed: 75.9 MB/s
Access time: 0.138 ms

I copied an image of the old IDE laptop disk on the SSD, installed it in the laptop and started it.

The result is excellent: the system boots in a few seconds, the applications are running (very) fast. Before the update, the AVG antivirus was freezing the computer and now everything run smoothly.

Surprisingly, the access time is lower on the laptop than on the home computer.

The laptop costed $1700 in 2003.

Today, I bought:

2 GB of So-Dimm: $87
2nd HDD caddy with IDE to SATA converter: $20
Crucial M4 128GB SSD: $123

The upgrade costed $230 and I have a quite up-to-date computer.
This is to be compared to a today computer which price starts at ~ $750.

 

[miso]

The laptop costed $1700 in 2003.

Today, I bought:

2 GB of So-Dimm: $87
2nd HDD caddy with IDE to SATA converter: $20
Crucial M4 128GB SSD: $123

The upgrade costed $230 and I have a quite up-to-date computer.
This is to be compared to a today computer which price starts at ~ $750.

What about win7? You need an OS suited for SSD. Win7 or higher, or linux
using ext4.

Regarding this being like a new computer, I seriously doubt it. You have
a 32 bit CPU, and the graphics chip is generations old.

 

[guilbert.stabilo]

Le mercredi 26 juin 2013 02:13:05 UTC+2, miso a écrit :

Regarding this being like a new computer, I seriously doubt it. You have a 32 bit CPU, and the graphics chip is generations old.

I kept the old Windows XP install (the computer was not mine and the personwanted to keep everything unchanged).

Anyway, even if CPU and GPU are the same, I felt like working with a recentand fast computer. Many people discouraged me buying a SSD but I do not regret it now.

 

[miso]

Except you are still ignoring trim.
Further, XP hits end of life in April 2014. Good luck with your virus
magnet.

 

[guilbert.stabilo]

Le jeudi 27 juin 2013 07:38:09 UTC+2, miso a écrit :

Except you are still ignoring trim.

Further, XP hits end of life in April 2014. Good luck with your virus

magnet.

Yes, you are absolutely right. I understood better after reading the wikipedia TRIM page.
I suppose the SSD performance will decrease in time without the functionality.
I also suppose it will decrease its life time.

Does TRIM need a recent hardware or is it just an OS level feature ?

In facts, the laptop has a Pentium M motherboard and the SSD is installed behind an IDE to SATA converter.

 

[miso]

I just do the fstrim by hand, i.e. not automatically, just as you
stated. The notebook is dual boot, so win7 takes care of itself. One of
these days I will get around to putting it in the boot routine.

Now say the OP loaded a small linux distribution. Can fstrim work on XP
fat32?

Regarding me drinking the MS propaganda, I have not read anything from
MS about XP becoming a virus magnet. However, all the other old OS from
MS have become 'bots, so I doubt XP will be any better in that respect.
Even old routers, which never get patched, are problems.

 

[guilbert.stabilo]

Le jeudi 27 juin 2013 19:21:57 UTC+2, David Brown a écrit :

However, TRIM is greatly overrated. It was very necessary with early flash disks, and can help with small or cheap devices - but it does not make much difference with more modern and higher quality flash disks.

Do you mean that recent flash drives controllers optimize the drive themselves ?

 

[miso]

I just used routers as an example of devices that don't get patched. I
realize most run on linux or bsd, but certainly not windows. But my
point is the manufacturer doesn't care about the firmware after a year
or two. That is why I like DD-WRT or similar programs. At least your
router gets patched.

I never owned an XP machine. I went from win2k pro to X64 (barely XP) to
win7. I didn't know XP could run NTFS.

 

[miso]

Most routers - including most with DD-WRT or related systems - don't get
patched, because they are made secure in the first place, and kept
simple. It is extremely rare that there are flaws found in things like
the Linux or BSD kernels and network stacks that can actually lead to
exploits. You don't need to worry about problems found in big, complex
software like Apache - because you don't run it on your router. You
don't need to worry about privilege escalation hacks on your router -
because /nobody/ gets direct access to the router, except root access
(or a user with sudo/su) for administration purposes.

Au contrair, there are plenty of routers with the UPNP bug. There is no
financial incentive for a cheap router to get patched. Say you are
Airlink 101, a company that probably has zero engineers. [I'm guessing
they use ODMs.] If there is a security flaw in an old router that
retailed for $20 a Frys, would you really be interested in patching it?
Remember, you would have to pay the ODM to fix it, and there is no
revenue stream.

Further, my Linksys with the GPL violation would never get patch. Hell,
you can't even get the original firmware.

Lastly, DD-WRT has been patched over the years for security issues. All
software has bugs.

 

[miso]

When you go for the cheapest, there is a bigger risk of problems. For
many "small name" manufacturers, then company is not going to be around
long enough to update the software even if they wanted to pay for it.


Obviously I meant that most individual DD-WRT routers don't get updated
- not that the DD-WRT folk don't update their software!

Oh I don't know. The kind of person that runs DD-WRT or similar is the
kind of person that patches firmware.

And my cheap Linksys router was $180. Not exactly Airlink 101 prices.

After using this Buffalo for some time now, I'd have a hard time
switching to another brand. Linksys/Cisco is out of the picture since
they ****ed me over. Netgear is just plain awful.

 

[Char Jackson]

After using this Buffalo for some time now, I'd have a hard time
switching to another brand. Linksys/Cisco is out of the picture since
they ****ed me over. Netgear is just plain awful.

Linksys was acquired by Belkin earlier this year.

 

[miso]

Heh, $180. Wow. Which model?


Uh oh. I just bought a new Netgear R6300 router last year for my
parents. It seems OK so far.

The Linksys was one of the early N models. I don't have it anymore. It
has gone to recycling. The damn thing needed a boot every other month.
Not bad in the scheme of things, but compared to routers that never need
booting, it wasn't so good.

You can always read the reviews on Newegg. Now there is always some
person that will get a bad unit, but when you have a lot of
complaints...well...

-------
Pros: None

Cons: Functioned for roughly two hours, then the unit died with no
interference, no lights or sign of life from the unit afterwards.
--------

This sounds like a classic piece of shit wall wart issue. Very common
with Netgear. Blame the bean counters since there are companies that
make good wall warts.

Unfortunately, the two Netgear routers I've had in the past had working
wall warts. The insides gave out.

Then again, the router I use doesn't get rave reviews either:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833162048

I use mine for audio streaming over wifi. No dropped wifi issues as
reported on Newegg. I never iperfed it.

 

[Char Jackson]

Ha, my old Linksys WRT54GL router sometimes autoreboots by itself. It
might be a wireless issue since it seems to reboot a lot with iPhone 4S
disconnecting (leaving the house).

I don't suppose you're running Linksys software on your GL? I have 7
WRT54GL's scattered around the house and haven't noticed an uncommanded
reboot in 3+ years, but all of mine run dd-wrt.

 

[miso]

I think these companies in general have wired technology under control.
At least the items for home use like unmanaged switches and such. It is
the addition of wifi that seems to baffle them. When I open them up, the
wifi is some additional daughterboard that they added to the
motherboard. It is like two teams that don't communicate well.

But companies like Broadcom can supply the whole package (wire and
wireless). I suspect (as in have zero evidence) that a Broadcom based
wifi router will be more reliable since they control the whole package.

I've been using those cheap Dlink "green" switches. OK, I guess. That
is, they work, but I don't bother to run performance testing on my
stuff. I am happy if the gear doesn't need booting. If it works at rated
speed, so much the better. But other than machine to machine transfers,
the wifi and wired lan are so much faster than the internet connection.
Now if I lived in Google Kansas, I might think differently.

 

[Char Jackson]

I've been using those cheap Dlink "green" switches. OK, I guess. That
is, they work, but I don't bother to run performance testing on my
stuff. I am happy if the gear doesn't need booting. If it works at rated
speed, so much the better. But other than machine to machine transfers,
the wifi and wired lan are so much faster than the internet connection.
Now if I lived in Google Kansas, I might think differently.

I get your point, but "Google", Kansas, isn't where Google ultimately
decided to roll out their Gigabit service. Topeka symbolically changed its
name to Google for a day or so, but it didn't work and Kansas City, Kansas,
and Kansas City, Missouri, were chosen instead.

 

[Char Jackson]

I am with the latest version, but I never had this problems over a year
ago though.

I have no experience with Linksys firmware on a WRT54GL. I flashed all of my
GL's to dd-wrt immediately after unpacking them.

 

[miso]

I get your point, but "Google", Kansas, isn't where Google ultimately
decided to roll out their Gigabit service. Topeka symbolically changed its
name to Google for a day or so, but it didn't work and Kansas City, Kansas,
and Kansas City, Missouri, were chosen instead.

OK. I didn't keep track of this. I saw an article in Ars Techica about a
Vermont town that has gigabit internet. They used funding grants for
rural internet and cellular. The fiber was also the backhaul for the
cellular, so I don't consider than double dipping more than someone
being clever in filing their grants.

I haven't been to Vermont in years, but the definition of rural must be
pretty generous. I have seen the rural funding go to cellular service in
Nevada hellholes where cattle outnumber people by 20 to 1.

Sonic has gigabit internet for $70, and they toss in the phone service
(sip I presume). Hopefully google and Sonic fiber will get AT$T
interested in actually laying some fiber, let alone new copper.