Is Defragging a Waste of Time?

[db]

yeah,

another method to keep
the disk as orderly as possible

is to simply make multiple
partitions.

the fallacy is that having one
giant partition is ok.

but in fact having only one giant
partition provides convenience.

on the other hand smaller partitions
are beneficial because multiple
partitions provide:

improved system performance,

better file management and
data organization and

an assurance against overall
data loss.

for example by storing user data in
an alternate partition instead of the
main system partition,

the os can be reinstalled if it
crashes or attacked by an
infection, without fear of loosing
user data.


--

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~~~~~~~~~~"share the nirvana" - dbZen

 

[Unknown]

Very intelligent.

I know that people who save all their email in OE have had bad experiences
with compacting. But I teach my kids to either save the email (File > Save
As > Folder on the hard disk) or delete it, but don't leave hundreds of
emails in the mail prog.
When you do this you can compact the folders without any problem.

 

[Unknown]

<sigh>

...<sigh>...

 

[Leythos]

If you read up on defragging on another NG
(comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage) you'll find that the general consensus is
that defragging is risky and a waste of time. That sentiment doesn't appear
to be reflected on here.

Having worked with MS based computers since the early DOS days, working
with massive server farms....

Defrag, properly done, maintains performance of all Windows based
systems, it can also restore lost performance to systems that have not
been defragged in a long time.

Defrag is only risky of you have flaky hardware or have a OS that
doesn't run in a stable manner.

 

[Gerry]

TVeblen

Unfortunate experiences are easily avoided. You need to follow a strict
routine. Do that and you do not get problems. It's sloppy housekeeping
that leads to grief.

Do not leave messages overlong in the Inbox or Sent Items folder. Move
them to user created folders. You can do this automatically using
Message Rules. Do not interrupt the compacting process once it starts.

In Outlook Express place the cursor on Local Folders and select File,
Work Offline followed by File, Folder, Compact All. Do not attempt to
interrupt or stop the process until it has completed. Close Outlook
Express when it has completed.

Of course backing up mail folders is no less important than backing any
other data files.

I have been using Outlook Express for over 10 years and have never had a
significant loss of mail in that time.

--


Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[Bill in Co.]

Compact the dbx files of OE, which otherwise become quite large. Check out
the insideoe page by Tomsterdam.

 

[Gerry]

Leythos

Why should Disk Defragmenter pose any greater risk than any other
programme that opens and close files? Security software probably poses a
greater threat through false positives than Disk Defragmenter
operations. Same remarks apply with regard to chkdsk.

--


Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

..

 

[Twayne]

Numpty:

Scottish usage:
a) Someone who (sometimes unwittingly) by speech or action
demonstrates a lack of knowledge or misconception of a particular
subject or situation to the amusement of others.


Had to look that one up. Thanks for the vocabulary boost.

IMHO, the XP defragger is fine for me. I run it a couple times a year
and don't realize any noticeable performance improvment, never lost a
byte, but the before and after pictures sometimes make me feel better
because sometimes it looks like something good must have happened.

Some people are compelled to defrag every day. I just don't get that
one.

You can download "better" defraggers and even pay for them, but I
think you will get as many opinions as people you ask. You will get
the "it depends on what you are doing with your system" responses
also.

You can also feel better after reading a little about what happens
when you defrag, what causes fragmentation, etc.

The trap not to fall into is thinking that defragging is some magic
bullet that is going to solve a percieved or major performance
issue.

If you say, "my system sure is slow", some numpty is going to come
along and assure you that you need to defrag your had drive right
away. Maybe, but more than likely a performance problem is someplace
else and you will still have your original problem after the defrag.

That's a good post IMO. Defrag is one one small bsush stroke in a large
picture. It's a forest/tree thing. It's just a tree; not the forest.

Regards,

Twayne

 

[Leythos]

Leythos

Why should Disk Defragmenter pose any greater risk than any other
programme that opens and close files? Security software probably poses a
greater threat through false positives than Disk Defragmenter
operations. Same remarks apply with regard to chkdsk.

Defragging doesn't pose any greater risk then anything that touches ALL
files on your computer. In normal operation, you do not touch ALL files
on your computer when you surf the web, when you edit a couple word
document, when you pay a online/local game.

When you defrag a drive, depending on how long it's ben and what you've
been doing, it's quite possible that the defrag program will move many
blocks of most files - there lies the added risk, defrag hits more
things than does normal daily operation.

 

[Tae Song]

If you read up on defragging on another NG
(comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage) you'll find that the general consensus
is that defragging is risky and a waste of time. That sentiment doesn't
appear to be reflected on here.

Can I invite comments from this group on this please? I'm no PC "boffin"
and neither am I a numpty but I'd like to know whether or not I should
defrag periodically.

Thanks.

I could maybe understand waste of time, but risky? Why would it be risky?

For file fragmentation to noticeably effect performance, it would have to
be pretty severe. You might lose maybe mins in the course of a year
depending on usage and fragmentation. But you could lose hours waiting
around for defrag to finish, depending on how often you run it. Or not a
all, if you have it scheduled while you are away from the computer.

My idea to keep fragmentation down, I moved all my temp files to a 1GB USB
flash drive. It frees the hard drive from wasting time seeking, reading and
writing lot of tiny little empty files all over the place on the hard drive.

 

[Gerry]

Tae Song

Read / writes access times are to my understanding noticeably slower
over USB connections slower than to an internal drive. Any benefits of
segregation are negated by your choice of how to segregate. Using a
separate partition on the original or a secomd internal hard drive would
realise greater benefits.


--


Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[SC Tom]

Gerry,
He's got all that covered. Read this:

http://groups.google.com/group/micr.../browse_thread/thread/b9990ba35ce704b8?hl=en#

SC Tom

 

[TVeblen]

Very wise! But, what specifically do you mean by Compact OE?

In Outlook Express (OE) go to File > Folders > Compact All Folders

 

[jeffareid]

Using a separate partition on the original or a secomd internal hard drive would realise greater benefits.

A separate partition would just thrash the hard drive more with longer seek
movements. A 2nd hard drive is a better idea.

 

[Leythos]

For file fragmentation to noticeably effect performance, it would have to
be pretty severe. You might lose maybe mins in the course of a year
depending on usage and fragmentation. But you could lose hours waiting
around for defrag to finish, depending on how often you run it. Or not a
all, if you have it scheduled while you are away from the computer.

I've seen a database server, used for a commercial website to allow
vendors to track orders (auto industry) where queries failed on a
routing basis, using an Oracle DB, because of fragmentation. Once the
defrag was done, and schedule for monthly running, the server responded
like new to queries - the only change was that it was defragged.

 

[Unknown]

That is not necessary and should not be done if you normally delete old mail
from inbox, sent, and deleted boxes.
If however you keep your mail in those boxes and have a huge amount, then,
to make more space you can compact.

 

[Gerry]

Unknown

Do the size of your dbx files reduce when you delete old mal and do not
compacting?


--


Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[Gerry]

Thanks for drawing my attention to the thread.


--


Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[Bill in Co.]

I can answer that for him. The answer is, no, they don't. (and that
behavior is typical for databases (like Access, Dbase, etc); and that's why
most have a compaction option (compaction, not compression, per se)

Unknown: it's simple to check it out, if you compare the before and after
file sizes of the appropriate dbx file (after you have simply deleted a
bunch of emails). If you've never run the compaction routine, the
difference in size can be staggering.

 

[Gerry]

Bill

Compaction removes redundant data within a file. File compression
rewrites the data remaining in simpler way requiring less space.

Quote

"What Does Compacting Messages Mean, and What Happens?

When you delete an email in Outlook Express, it is moved to the Deleted
Items folder. The message disappears from its original folder, and when
you empty the trash, it disappears from there, too.

In neither case is the message removed from the file on your disk
immediately, however. Editing files for this is a slow process, and
you'd have to wait or experience Outlook Express responding slowly
whenever you deleted a couple of emails. This is why deletion merely
hides the messages from view.

Of course, having all your deleted messages still on disk means a lot of
space that can be reclaimed is wasted over time, and if Outlook Express
has to keep track of too many obsolete messages this itself can mean a
slowdown of certain actions.

So Outlook Express tries to remove these deleted emails physically from
time to time. This it calls "compacting". Every 100 times you close
Outlook Express, you are asked to start that process."
Source:
http://email.about.com/od/outlookexpresstroubles/qt/et_compact_oe.htm



--


Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~