IP/Internet setup.

  • Thread starter Thread starter Saga
  • Start date Start date
S

Saga

Hi all,

I am having a problem, most likely due to my lack of understanding on how
IPs are handled and used. I apologize for the long post, please bear with me.
If this is not the most appropriate ng to ask this, please let me know.

My setup consists of the following:

1. Small Business Server 2003, with DHCP server
2. 2 PCs, Win XP SP2
3. One Wifi notebook with Win 2000
4. One 5 port 10/100 switch
5. One wireless access point

The SBS2k3, two PCs and the WAP are connected to the switch.

All was well, then I contracted High Speed Cable Internet. This is where the
fun began. This is my first installation of this type, so although I consider
myself knowledgeable enough to set up a small LAN, I was nowhere near
prepared for this small addition.

I got out an old Linksys BEFSX41 router/firewall/VPN end point that I had. I
connected the cable modem to the router and then the router to the switch. Simple
enough. Note that I did not use the SBS2K3's Internet connectivity features
because this requires that the server contain 2 NICs and since this is a small
form factor PC, it only allows for one PCI expansion card.

When I thought I had everything running I discovered that I could not ping
an external web site, like www.amazon.com. I also discovered that my router
acted as a DHCP server. I wasn't sure what conflicts I could have by having 2
DHCP servers online. Also, my router insisted on giving out ips like 192.168.1.100
while the SBS2K3 server gave them out like 192.168.16.30. I changed this
in the router, so that it would also give out ips with the "16", but then opted to
disable this service completely. I also changed the default gateway which
pointed to the SBS2K3 so that it would point to the router. I was; however,
able to successfully ping the router and the cable modem.

This being done I still could not ping external web sites and after some experimentation
I discovered that my DNS server was also pointing to the SBS2K3, so I copied the DNS
servers that I was getting from the cable modem. Once that was done I was able to ping
external web sites. I restarted the XP PC and discovered to my horror that it was taking
about 5 minutes stuck on the pre login process "Applying computer settings". Finally,
when the login dialog appeared and I logged in, it took another 5 minutes stuck on the
"Applying personal settings" step. Finally, after an inordinate amount of time, the desktop
was ready to use. Since this did not happen when I changed the default gateway, I
assumed that the change in the DNS server was to blame. I added a third DNS server,
this being the SBS2K3's ip. I restarted (again) and this it booted like a charm, under a
minute (counting from the time the loader comes on till the desktop is ready to use).

However, the server's name is not being resolved correctly. I use Remote Desktop (RD)
to connect to the server for maintenance and shutdown and I have always used
the server's name to connect, like MINI-C. Yet after the last boot, RD could not find
the server; however, the process works perfectly if I substitute the server name for
its IP.

Basically, the only change I did to the original setup (besides the hardware addition) is
that I changed the default gateway to point to the router, disabled the DHCP server on
the router and added the two DNS server ips that I got from the cable modem, keeping
the original DNS server pointing to the SBS2K3.

So, after this long winded description comes my questions: :-)

What am I missing so that the server's name is correctly resolved when I attempt to
connect to it through Remote Desktop? Does the order in which I defined the DNS servers
make a difference? Is there something else that I need to take into account for my current
setup (that is, connecting the setup described above to the Internet through a router and
cable modem)?

Thank you for your time and orientation.
Saga
 
Saga said:
Hi all,

I am having a problem, most likely due to my lack of understanding on how
IPs are handled and used. I apologize for the long post, please bear with
me.
If this is not the most appropriate ng to ask this, please let me know.

My setup consists of the following:

1. Small Business Server 2003, with DHCP server
2. 2 PCs, Win XP SP2
3. One Wifi notebook with Win 2000
4. One 5 port 10/100 switch
5. One wireless access point

The SBS2k3, two PCs and the WAP are connected to the switch.

All was well, then I contracted High Speed Cable Internet. This is where
the
fun began. This is my first installation of this type, so although I
consider
myself knowledgeable enough to set up a small LAN, I was nowhere near
prepared for this small addition.

I got out an old Linksys BEFSX41 router/firewall/VPN end point that I had.
I
connected the cable modem to the router and then the router to the switch.
Simple
enough. Note that I did not use the SBS2K3's Internet connectivity
features
because this requires that the server contain 2 NICs and since this is a
small
form factor PC, it only allows for one PCI expansion card.

When I thought I had everything running I discovered that I could not ping
an external web site, like www.amazon.com. I also discovered that my
router
acted as a DHCP server. I wasn't sure what conflicts I could have by
having 2
DHCP servers online. Also, my router insisted on giving out ips like
192.168.1.100
while the SBS2K3 server gave them out like 192.168.16.30. I changed this
in the router, so that it would also give out ips with the "16", but then
opted to
disable this service completely. I also changed the default gateway which
pointed to the SBS2K3 so that it would point to the router. I was;
however,
able to successfully ping the router and the cable modem.

This being done I still could not ping external web sites and after some
experimentation
I discovered that my DNS server was also pointing to the SBS2K3, so I
copied the DNS
servers that I was getting from the cable modem. Once that was done I was
able to ping
external web sites. I restarted the XP PC and discovered to my horror that
it was taking
about 5 minutes stuck on the pre login process "Applying computer
settings". Finally,
when the login dialog appeared and I logged in, it took another 5 minutes
stuck on the
"Applying personal settings" step. Finally, after an inordinate amount of
time, the desktop
was ready to use. Since this did not happen when I changed the default
gateway, I
assumed that the change in the DNS server was to blame. I added a third
DNS server,
this being the SBS2K3's ip. I restarted (again) and this it booted like a
charm, under a
minute (counting from the time the loader comes on till the desktop is
ready to use).

However, the server's name is not being resolved correctly. I use Remote
Desktop (RD)
to connect to the server for maintenance and shutdown and I have always
used
the server's name to connect, like MINI-C. Yet after the last boot, RD
could not find
the server; however, the process works perfectly if I substitute the
server name for
its IP.

Basically, the only change I did to the original setup (besides the
hardware addition) is
that I changed the default gateway to point to the router, disabled the
DHCP server on
the router and added the two DNS server ips that I got from the cable
modem, keeping
the original DNS server pointing to the SBS2K3.

So, after this long winded description comes my questions: :-)

What am I missing so that the server's name is correctly resolved when I
attempt to
connect to it through Remote Desktop? Does the order in which I defined
the DNS servers
make a difference? Is there something else that I need to take into
account for my current
setup (that is, connecting the setup described above to the Internet
through a router and
cable modem)?

Thank you for your time and orientation.
Saga
Click to expand...
You will find much more support in microsoft.public.windowsxp.network_web.

It would appear to me that you have one too many DHCP servers. Problems
with pinging may be incorrect firewall settings. But those guys above know
much more than myself.
Jim
 
Answered inline. You may want to repost this in the SBS news group to get
more answers. ( microsoft.public.windows.server.sbs )
Hi all,

I am having a problem, most likely due to my lack of understanding on
how IPs are handled and used. I apologize for the long post, please bear
with me. If this is not the most appropriate ng to ask this, please let me
know.
My setup consists of the following:

1. Small Business Server 2003, with DHCP server
2. 2 PCs, Win XP SP2
3. One Wifi notebook with Win 2000
4. One 5 port 10/100 switch
5. One wireless access point

The SBS2k3, two PCs and the WAP are connected to the switch.

All was well, then I contracted High Speed Cable Internet. This is
where the fun began. This is my first installation of this type, so
although I
consider myself knowledgeable enough to set up a small LAN, I was nowhere
near
prepared for this small addition.

I got out an old Linksys BEFSX41 router/firewall/VPN end point that I
had. I connected the cable modem to the router and then the router to the
switch. Simple enough. Note that I did not use the SBS2K3's Internet
connectivity
features because this requires that the server contain 2 NICs and since
this
is a small form factor PC, it only allows for one PCI expansion card.
Click to expand...

With SBS it is strongly recommended to use the wizards to set everything up.
SBS is a very complex setup. The wizards know about things you might not or
might forget to do. The CEICW (Configure E-Mail and Internet Connection
Wizard) will work with one NIC or two. It is highly recommended to use it to
setup the Internet connection.
When I thought I had everything running I discovered that I could not
ping an external web site, like www.amazon.com. I also discovered that my
router acted as a DHCP server. I wasn't sure what conflicts I could have
by
having 2 DHCP servers online. Also, my router insisted on giving out ips
like
192.168.1.100 while the SBS2K3 server gave them out like 192.168.16.30. I
changed
this in the router, so that it would also give out ips with the "16", but
then opted to disable this service completely. I also changed the default
gateway
which pointed to the SBS2K3 so that it would point to the router. I was;
however, able to successfully ping the router and the cable modem.
Click to expand...

This is the correct way to do it. Disable DHCP on the router. The SBS server
should be the DHCP server. In the router configuration give it a static LAN
IP that is not in the scope of the SBS DHCP server. My SBS server is set to
192.168.0.254 My router is 192.168.0.1 The DHCP scope is 192.168.0.100 to
192.168.0.150 Make sure the SBS server is set to use the router
(192.168.0.1) as the gateway and also give out this option in DHCP.
This being done I still could not ping external web sites and after
some experimentation I discovered that my DNS server was also pointing to
the SBS2K3, so I
copied the DNS servers that I was getting from the cable modem. Once
that was done I was able to ping external web sites. I restarted the
XP PC and discovered to my horror that it was taking about 5 minutes
stuck on the pre login process "Applying computer settings". Finally, when
the login dialog appeared and I logged in, it took another 5
minutes stuck on the "Applying personal settings" step. Finally,
after an inordinate amount of time, the desktop was ready to use.
Since this did not happen when I changed the default gateway, I assumed
that the change in the DNS server was to blame. I added a
third DNS server, this being the SBS2K3's ip. I restarted (again) and this
it booted
like a charm, under a minute (counting from the time the loader comes
on till the desktop is ready to use).
Click to expand...

The only DNS server that workstations need is the SBS server. The DNS server
on the SBS server should be set up to forward outside requests to your ISP's
server.
However, the server's name is not being resolved correctly. I use
Remote Desktop (RD) to connect to the server for maintenance and shutdown
and I have
always used the server's name to connect, like MINI-C. Yet after the last
boot,
RD could not find the server; however, the process works perfectly if I
substitute the
server name for its IP.

Basically, the only change I did to the original setup (besides the
hardware addition) is that I changed the default gateway to point to
the router, disabled the DHCP server on the router and added the two DNS
server ips that I got from the cable
modem, keeping the original DNS server pointing to the SBS2K3.

So, after this long winded description comes my questions: :-)

What am I missing so that the server's name is correctly resolved
when I attempt to connect to it through Remote Desktop? Does the
order in which I defined the DNS servers make a difference? Is there
something else that I need to take into account for my current setup
(that is, connecting the setup described above to the Internet
through a router and cable modem)?
Thank you for your time and orientation.
Saga
Click to expand...

Here's how I would approach the problem overall. Shut off all the
workstations. Have only the server and the router on. Set the TCP/IP
properties of the server NIC to use a static IP, itself as the only DNS
server, and the router as the gateway. On SBS server setup the DNS server
with a forwarder to the ISP's DNS server. On the SBS server set the DHCP
scope and set the options to give out the SBS server's IP for DNS and WINS,
and the router's IP for the gateway. Confirm that the server can access the
Internet. Run the CEICW wizard and use the options you've just setup when
asked. This will make sure you didn't miss anything and also setup Exchange
if needed. Boot up the workstations and confirm they can access the server
and the Internet.

I highly recommend you spend some time on the SBS newsgroup. I also highly
recommend you get a book on SBS by Harry Brelsford. Check www.smbnation.com
for titles. Whatever you do, do not bypass the wizards with SBS. You will
break something eventually.
 
Thank you for your input.

I will use the SBS Wiz for Internet connetion. Frankly, I have been busy with
the workstations and have not had a chance to get to the server. I will be doing
this over the weekend. Thanks for the tip.

At this time, some of the recommendations that you have made have already
been applied, either becasue I did so manually or because that was their default
state. For example, I did disable the DHCP server on the router; however I have
never configured anything on the server to define it as the default gateway or
DNS server, yet an ipconfig/all command on the workstations tells me that
the SBSK3 is the default gateway and DNS server (before I made the changes
described in the original post..

The router ip is 192.168. (will omit these 2 numbers in future references) 16.1,
the SBS ip is 16.2 and the DCHP scope starts at 16.30, so the usual ip that I
get for a workstation is 16.31, so I think I am safe here. FYI, I kept the default
ip numbers 1 and 2 for the router and server, respectively. I hope these are ok,
in any case, I can always change them.

From what you say in your reply, I understand that all setup is done at the
SBS and that the workstaions will remain unchanged, without having to explicitly
define the default gateway or the dns servers inside the TCP/IP properties in the
LAN connections control(setup) applet. Once the SBS is configured, the WrkStns
will get this info from the server. My setting up the workstation first was an error
on my part, as I needed to setup only the server.

Thanks for the book recommendation. I will check it out and give it serious
consideration... in fact, that title sounds familiar, I am going to check, as I may
have it already (to be read Real Soon Now after the other 10 books on top of it<g>)

Again, thanks for your help.
Saga

--
 
You're welcome. Answers inline.
Thank you for your input.

I will use the SBS Wiz for Internet connetion. Frankly, I have been
busy with the workstations and have not had a chance to get to the server.
I
will be doing this over the weekend. Thanks for the tip.

At this time, some of the recommendations that you have made have
already been applied, either becasue I did so manually or because that was
their default state. For example, I did disable the DHCP server on
the router; however I have never configured anything on the server to
define it as the default gateway or DNS server, yet an ipconfig/all
command on the workstations tells me
that the SBSK3 is the default gateway and DNS server (before I made the
changes described in the original post..
Click to expand...

These are the SBS defaults when the DHCP server was setup during the
install. You will have to change the default gateway to be the router. This
is best done in the DHCP options on the SBS server. I can't remember all the
questions the CEICW asks but I think it will set the default gateway. If
asked when running the wizard specify the router's IP. If not then you'll
have to set it manually in the DHCP management console.

The router ip is 192.168. (will omit these 2 numbers in future
references) 16.1, the SBS ip is 16.2 and the DCHP scope starts at
16.30, so the usual ip that I get for a workstation is 16.31, so I think I
am safe here. FYI, I
kept the default ip numbers 1 and 2 for the router and server,
respectively. I hope these are ok, in any case, I can always change them.
Click to expand...

That should all work fine. The key is the router and the server need static
IP's outside of the DHCP scope and the server does the DHCP. All the
workstations should be configured to use DHCP not a static IP. That way if
you change the setup with the CEICW the DHCP server will be updated
automatically and thus so will the workstations by rebooting. The actual
addresses can be anything you like.
From what you say in your reply, I understand that all setup is done
at the SBS and that the workstaions will remain unchanged, without having
to
explicitly define the default gateway or the dns servers inside the
TCP/IP properties in the LAN connections control(setup) applet. Once
the SBS is configured, the WrkStns will get this info from the server. My
setting up the workstation
first was an error on my part, as I needed to setup only the server.
Click to expand...

That's correct. The server needs to be configured before any of the
workstations. Once the server is working and the workstations are getting
the right TCP/IP settings from the SBS DHCP server you can use the
connectcomputer wizard to join them to the domain. This will ensure they
work properly with Exchange, Sharepoint, Remote Desktop, OWA, Shared fax
Service and all the other goodies in SBS. Even if you don't use all the
goodies you should use the wizard. You may use them at some point in the
future and it will all be set up ready to go.
Thanks for the book recommendation. I will check it out and give it
serious consideration... in fact, that title sounds familiar, I am
going to check, as I may have it already (to be read Real Soon Now
after the other 10 books on top of it<g>)
Again, thanks for your help.
Saga
Click to expand...

Good luck. Feel free to ask more questions. There are many experts in the
Microsoft.public.windows.server.sbs newsgroup that can give you much better
advice than me. I recommend you check it out. SBS is very powerful but if
you are used to working with other versions of Windows Server it can be very
frustrating at first. Many thing such as always using the wizards goes
against the grain of most IT professionals. Once you see the light and use
the wizards it becomes very easy to manage.
 
Thanks again. I have already started looking at the sbs ng, in fact, I found this link
in one of the posts:

http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=825763



Basically it states what you have stated here and in your previous reply, although

I will probably wait till Monday to ask any questions there, after I have given it a

go with the info I have now and have more specific questions about SBS.



Have a great weekend!

Saga
 
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