INT13,1024 Cylinder limit and the 2 and 8 GB boundries

[RScotti]

Hi everybody,
I am totally confused on this so if I give you information that is unnecessary please excuse my ignorance.

Back in 2000 I made a duo boot computer with PQ Magic and Never had these problems with Windows ME and NT 4.0.



I am trying to prepare my HD and make a new active partition for Vista RC-1 I am using Norton Partition Magic version
8.05. When I started to make the new partition I first saw an error message on the create/Resize partition screen. It
said on all partitions INCLUDING the one I am using now for Windows XP:

"This partition crosses the 1024 cylinder boundary and may not be bootable"


This is my main concern I don't want to create an active partition that is not bootable and not be able to undo it.


I Emailed Symantec and they gave me a URL on making a partition for Windows NT.

I understand from your message that you wish to create a bootable partition using Norton Partition Magic, in order to install Windows Vista.
Richard, please note that you can create a bootable partition by following the steps given in the following document: http://service1.symantec.com/support/powerquest.nsf/docid/2004033857175562?Open&src=con_ols_nam
Please be informed that PartitionMagic is not tested with Windows Vista Operating System.

I read this but one of the paragraphs I read confused me and that said:

In most cases, Windows NT partitions should start below the 2 GB boundary of the hard drive to be bootable.
If Windows NT has been updated to Service Pack 4 or later, then the boot code boundary is 8 GB.
Windows 2000/XP partitions must start below the 8 GB boundary to be bootable.
If your system supports INT13 extensions, then Windows 2000/XP can boot from a partition that begins beyond the 8 GB boundary.
Consult your system documentation to determine whether your system supports INT13 extensions.

Not knowing what they are talking about I first tried to email HP support and they said:

I see that you would like to install the Vista RC-1 Beta operating
system and looking for the partition information of the drive, INT13
extensions and looking to install two operating systems.

Rich, at this point of time I recommend you to contact our phone
support. As this situation warrants a one to one communication with a
technician while you are at your system. This is necessary as the
troubleshooting usually involves narrowing down on cause by elimination
of various possibilities. Unfortunately, this cannot be done through
e-mail support. Thus, we suggest you to contact our HP Customer Care
Center.

I called HP Phone support and the technician said he didn't know what they wanted him to troubleshoot?
so I told him all this information:

I have a HP Desktop A1440N Pavilion computer that has 3 Primary partitions instead of two partitions on my drive.
A- The Win XP MCE at C:\
B- The Recovery partition at D:\
C- ***** It also has and unallocated primary partition with NO letter which is only 7.8 MB
BUT the used and unused space are both 0 MB (Blank.)
Since I am going to expand the 7.8 MB part of the C:\ Partition I need to know why it is there?
1b- This expansion will get rid of that 7.8 MB and go to 125 GB.
1c- Is that going to affect the other partitions?
1d- What is the purpose of this?
1e-Why is it just using up one of my four partitions?
2a- Does my system support INT13 extensions?

I don't really understand this but in order to install a new OS I have to install it before the 8 GB boundary for it to
be bootable if I don't have this INT13 extension?
How can I put 2 OS's that are 100 GB's inside of 8 GB? It seems to me that this is impossible UNLESS the new
partition creates a new 8 GB boundary?

After I asked him all the questions he put me on hold for 1:32:16 and he never came back. I called back again and she
said first of all if I put two OS's on my system it will void my warrantee than she said that I had to talk to a
engineer so she put me on hold I waited another 1:10 minutes and got no one.

I tried to give you all the facts which I did write down so I could relay to you. I really would appreciate all your
help on this cause I am confused on what to do.
PS: I have some screen shorts if you need them.

Have a good day,
RScotti

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[Dennis Pack x64, Vista RC1 x86 & x64]

RScotti:
I have PQ PM8 and Norton PM8. With both programs the same message
appears when working with NTFS partitions. I've used both programs ignoring
this message without any problems. It may be a warning that's needed if
you're installing earlier operating systems.

 

[RScotti]

Hi Dennis,
Which message are you talking about the 1024 cylinder boundary, the 2 GB or the 8 GB boundaries?
My HD is 250 GB and no way can I install two OS's within 1024 cylinders or 8 GB.
I need to install beyond all three of these, I think.
Is there a way to fix an unbootable partition incase I make it active and it won't boot?
Do you know what INT13 is?

RScotti:
I have PQ PM8 and Norton PM8. With both programs the same message
appears when working with NTFS partitions. I've used both programs ignoring
this message without any problems. It may be a warning that's needed if
you're installing earlier operating systems.

Have a good day,
RScotti

remove "nospam" in order to email me.

 

[Dennis Pack x64, Vista RC1 x86 & x64]

RScotti:
As far as I know the 1024 cylinder boundary, the 2 GB or the 8 GB
boundaries are for Win98 or earlier. As I indicated, I ignore those
massages. I've partitioned my 250GB raid1 array and a 320GB hard drive with
no problems installing or running XP, XPx64, Vista x86 and x64. The disk
format has to be NTFS to work with Vista and is better with XP.

 

[RScotti]

Hi Again Dennis,
Yes your right.
I just called Compusa and they told me I have INT137 which is for all HD bigger that 137 GB.
(I think that the right amount) For some reason HP would not tell me this. I am very disappointed in their support.

I should be all set. My HD is just 250 GB SATA NOT raid1. Don't know if that matters?

If possible just to be on the safe side do you or anyone know that If I make a mistake an have an active partition and
it doesn't boot Is there a way to fix that?
I know I am over cautious.

RScotti:
As far as I know the 1024 cylinder boundary, the 2 GB or the 8 GB
boundaries are for Win98 or earlier. As I indicated, I ignore those
massages. I've partitioned my 250GB raid1 array and a 320GB hard drive with
no problems installing or running XP, XPx64, Vista x86 and x64. The disk
format has to be NTFS to work with Vista and is better with XP.

Have a good day,
RScotti

remove "nospam" in order to email me.

 

[Mark D. VandenBerg]

You can boot from your PM 8 CD and access PM that way to hide/show drives
and manipulate them.

 

[RScotti]

Hi Dennis,
I forgot to ask you something.
Where you have both Partition Magic's are you able to use them in Vista RC-1?
Symantec did say that there not tested for that.

RScotti:
As far as I know the 1024 cylinder boundary, the 2 GB or the 8 GB
boundaries are for Win98 or earlier. As I indicated, I ignore those
massages. I've partitioned my 250GB raid1 array and a 320GB hard drive with
no problems installing or running XP, XPx64, Vista x86 and x64. The disk
format has to be NTFS to work with Vista and is better with XP.

Have a good day,
RScotti

remove "nospam" in order to email me.

 

[RScotti]

Sorry for being stupid but How do you boot from an unbootable drive?
Also I just sent a message about is that Symantec says PM is not tested for Vista. Your saying it does work?

You can boot from your PM 8 CD and access PM that way to hide/show drives
and manipulate them.

Have a good day,
RScotti

remove "nospam" in order to email me.

 

[Mark D. VandenBerg]

Sorry for being stupid but How do you boot from an unbootable drive?
Also I just sent a message about is that Symantec says PM is not tested
for Vista. Your saying it does work?

To boot from the CD means exactly that: open the CD tray. Insert the CD.
Turn the computer off. Turn the computer on. Select option. Select
option.

I have not tried installing PM 8 into Vista, for precisely the reason you
mention. I dual-boot XP and Vista, and if I need to manage the partitions I
boot from the PM CD, and not from any operating system.

 

[Dennis Pack x64, Vista RC1 x86 & x64]

RScotti:
I'll make no comment about HP support other than I'm still waiting
for x64 drivers that were to be released 2 years ago. There are many things
that can cause an operating system not to boot, rarely is it the partition
as long as it's formatted NTFS. If you suspect that it's the partition it
can be deleted using PM8 or under administrative accessories, disk
management. The only problem that I've found is that if a partition is
created and formatted using Vista disk management XP or XP x64 won't install
to that partition. Another option is when you install XP on a fresh 250GB
hard drive you will have the option to create a partition up to the size of
the hard drive, remember that a can have up to 4 active partitions. When I
start with a new hard drive I will setup the first operating system on a
40GB partition leaving the rest unallocated. After the operating system is
installed, using disk management I'll create a 100GB data partition in the
unallocated area, leaving room for two more partitions in the unallocated
area. Having a separate data partition for files, downloads, pictures or
other personal data reduces the risk of data loss if there is a problem with
the operating system. Also if you are running multiple operating systems
you'll have a common area for storage. PM8 isn't compatible for installation
with XP x64 or Vista, I have it installed in XP and use the recovery disks
made during installation to boot into PM8 without an operating system
running to make partition changes.

 

[RScotti]

Thank you Mark,
I know how insert a CD. I just couldn't understand how you can boot from an unbootable drive.
That just doesn't make since to me.
I will take your word that it will work. There is no question that you know a lot more about this than I do.

To boot from the CD means exactly that: open the CD tray. Insert the CD.
Turn the computer off. Turn the computer on. Select option. Select
option.

I have not tried installing PM 8 into Vista, for precisely the reason you
mention. I dual-boot XP and Vista, and if I need to manage the partitions I
boot from the PM CD, and not from any operating system.

Have a good day,
RScotti

remove "nospam" in order to email me.

 

[RScotti]

Hi Dennis,
Thank you for your input.
HP has let me down many times.
I had problems with my DVD not rewriting to a DVD, Couldn't use System Restore or SFC
So they told me I had to send it to them. So I did. They couldn't find anything wrong.
When I got it back I still had the same problems.
They changed my BIOS. I found out later that the new BIOS didn't have the CD boot capabilities so they said I had to
send it back again cause I couldn't flash the BIOS myself.
I then learned that there was a fix for the bois which I did from within Windows.
I asked them about this problem and you saw my OP on that.
As I said I found out from Compusa about the INT13 HP would not tell me and gave me the run around both in Email and
Phone support
I guess I should have bought a Dell!

RScotti:
I'll make no comment about HP support other than I'm still waiting
for x64 drivers that were to be released 2 years ago. There are many things
that can cause an operating system not to boot, rarely is it the partition
as long as it's formatted NTFS. If you suspect that it's the partition it
can be deleted using PM8 or under administrative accessories, disk
management. The only problem that I've found is that if a partition is
created and formatted using Vista disk management XP or XP x64 won't install
to that partition. Another option is when you install XP on a fresh 250GB
hard drive you will have the option to create a partition up to the size of
the hard drive, remember that a can have up to 4 active partitions. When I
start with a new hard drive I will setup the first operating system on a
40GB partition leaving the rest unallocated. After the operating system is
installed, using disk management I'll create a 100GB data partition in the
unallocated area, leaving room for two more partitions in the unallocated
area. Having a separate data partition for files, downloads, pictures or
other personal data reduces the risk of data loss if there is a problem with
the operating system. Also if you are running multiple operating systems
you'll have a common area for storage. PM8 isn't compatible for installation
with XP x64 or Vista, I have it installed in XP and use the recovery disks
made during installation to boot into PM8 without an operating system
running to make partition changes.

Have a good day,
RScotti

remove "nospam" in order to email me.

 

[Rock]

Hi Dennis,
I forgot to ask you something.
Where you have both Partition Magic's are you able to use them in Vista
RC-1?
Symantec did say that there not tested for that.

<snip>

Partition Magic won't run on Vista.

 

[RScotti]

Thanks Rock.

<snip>

Partition Magic won't run on Vista.

Have a good day,
RScotti

remove "nospam" in order to email me.

 

[Mark D. VandenBerg]

Thank you Mark,
I know how insert a CD. I just couldn't understand how you can boot from
an unbootable drive.
That just doesn't make since to me.
I will take your word that it will work. There is no question that you
know a lot more about this than I do.

Perhaps I am missing something, or not understanding the subtle nuances of
your particular concern.

Are you saying you have a CD/DVD drive that is not bootable? If so, that
should be able to be corrected by making adjustments to the settings in your
BIOS. You are able to access your BIOS, also referred to as "System
Settings" when you first power-on your computer. Some have a screen that
tells you how. Some (loathsome engineers) actually expect you to read the
documentation to discover it yourself (the AUDACITY!)

As an aside, forgetting about Vista for the moment, if you had a serious
problem with your computer that required you to boot from the Windows
Installation/Recovery CD, how would you do it?

As for knowing more, perhaps, but strictly trial-by-fire knowledge. I have
screwed up every computer I have ever owned because of an obsessive
curiosity, and simply have probably made more mistakes than most users and
hobbyists; exponentially more. Through it all, I have learned the religion
of backing up data, how to fix certain things, and most importantly, where
the true experts are for when I muck something up again. And I will. Soon.

 

[RScotti]

Hi Mark,
Thanks for getting back to me. I do have serious concerns but I guess it is just me and hopefully I will get over it.

Perhaps I am missing something, or not understanding the subtle nuances of
your particular concern.

Are you saying you have a CD/DVD drive that is not bootable? If so, that
should be able to be corrected by making adjustments to the settings in your
BIOS. You are able to access your BIOS, also referred to as "System
Settings" when you first power-on your computer. Some have a screen that
tells you how. Some (loathsome engineers) actually expect you to read the
documentation to discover it yourself (the AUDACITY!)

No that is not my problem.

As an aside, forgetting about Vista for the moment, if you had a serious
problem with your computer that required you to boot from the Windows
Installation/Recovery CD, how would you do it?

Since HP didn't give me a CD I would probably have to do a clean install from either my Recovery Partition or if I could
get them to be read which I usually can't do, my Recovery Disks.

As for knowing more, perhaps, but strictly trial-by-fire knowledge. I have
screwed up every computer I have ever owned because of an obsessive
curiosity, and simply have probably made more mistakes than most users and
hobbyists; exponentially more. Through it all, I have learned the religion
of backing up data, how to fix certain things, and most importantly, where
the true experts are for when I muck something up again. And I will. Soon.

My only concern is that once I create a new partition and have it activated it and it may fail to reboot because of that
error about beyond the 1024 cylinder limits.
I had installed Windows ME and NT 4 back in 2000 and I thought I just booted into my C:\partition (Windows ME) and asked
Windows to install NT 4 on my D:\ drive. To me this is safer that setting the new partition active and hopping it will
be bootable.
Sorry but this procedure scars me .

Thanks for your help. Sorry if I am over cautious.

Have a good day,
RScotti

remove "nospam" in order to email me.