Indisputable Fact About Vista -serious gamers can not use it

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Rich said:
"> Indisputable Fact About Vista -serious gamers can not use it

heh

Indisputable,
you can't denys that ..
everyone knows that ..
experts say .that ..
It's a given that ..

When you hear these phrases ..
know that this is what they would like to think its true
no evidence, other that blundering exertise and feelings ...

substitue *feel* for any of the above keywords, or better yet
*according to my politics, I feel that*

priceless

Rich
Click to expand...
It is an indisputable fact that between Windows and Mac, one of them is
better..
It is an indisputable fact that circles are round.
I'd say it's quite disputable that "serious gamers" can't use Vista,
depending on the definition of "serious gamers". Does that include gamers
that like RPGs or just gamers that like FPS?
 
Eric said:
It is an indisputable fact that between Windows and Mac, one of them is
better..
It is an indisputable fact that circles are round.
I'd say it's quite disputable that "serious gamers" can't use Vista,
depending on the definition of "serious gamers". Does that include gamers
that like RPGs or just gamers that like FPS?
Click to expand...
And why would you want to be a "serious" gamer? I thought it was
supposed to be fun :-)

gls858
 
gls858 said:
And why would you want to be a "serious" gamer? I thought it was supposed
to be fun :-)

gls858
Click to expand...

The original intent of PC gaming was to relax and have some fun.
Then some yahoo invented the internet.
Then every game decided to connect all it's users via the internet.
Then people started playing against each other and getting competitive.
Some people get really serious about having fun playing games because
they're not fun for them when they're constantly losing.
For the more competitive people, games are only fun when you win.
Others get serious about their games because they can win prizes, or they
can make money from helping other people become better gamers.
I like to win, and I find that people are too often disagreeable and many
will cheat if given the chance, so I usually prefer to play against the
machine.
 
You haven't done much "lurking" then ;)

SLI/Crossfire significantly increases performance.

Check out the forums for futuremark makers of 3DMark.

Check out the score differences in SLI/Crossfire rigs vs. Non-SLI/Crossfire
rigs.
Click to expand...

Yeah, dual video cards pump up benchmarking scores. No one doubts it.
But does that translate into better game performance?

Charlie
 
Tom's Hardware is and has been running with morons for years.

When you load a game the GUI shuts down and stops using the processing
power.

When you leave a game then the GUI restarts.

So it's not truly utilizing anymore of your graphics power than XP.

The issue is the quality of the drivers. XP had this issue too at first with
people saying all the fancy transparencies and the drop shadowed icons were
causing framerate issues, but what people don't realize is that the GUI is
always unloaded from memory when you start a game, and reinitialized when
you leave the game.
Click to expand...

OK. This seems credible.

Charlie
 
In message <[email protected]> BSchnur
Not that it matters much to me, I seriously wonder about folks feeling
the need to invest $500 to $1000 on video cards (plus upgraded cooling
and power supplies and the inevitable heat and noise from them).
Click to expand...

I dropped $160 on two new SLI-capable cards when I upgraded to Vista,
simply because my old video card wasn't quite up for the task of driving
two monitors under Vista.

Two monitors under XP was fine, one monitor under Vista was fine, but
two monitors under Vista and I was getting very noticeable slow downs.

That, plus dual-DVI-output was a nice bonus.

SLI would potentially be useful since it allows the video cards to share
RAM -- This means that if fully implemented, items which move across
windows could use SLI, rather then the PCI-E bus.
 
Wrong, Vista supports SLI just fine.As in Vista supports all those 'all-in-one' printer/scanner/fax
devices, it is just that the drivers don't exist.

Point being that currently it doesn't work.
 
In message <[email protected]> BSchnur
As in Vista supports all those 'all-in-one' printer/scanner/fax
devices, it is just that the drivers don't exist.

Point being that currently it doesn't work.
Click to expand...

Well -- My Canon MP750 works with Vista out of the box, and all the
additional features (Duplex printing being the big one I use) worked
with Canon's already available drivers.
 
I understand -- but that's sort of reasonable. For me, 'high end' with
video cards is around $120 on the top end. Most of my clients run
systems with $50 to $80 cards (say 550x 850x or now 1050x on the ATI
side of things, or 6x series nvidia).
 
Well -- My Canon MP750 works with Vista out of the box, and all the
additional features (Duplex printing being the big one I use) worked
with Canon's already available drivers.
Click to expand...

Good for you -- my Dell color laser now works with Vista just fine
(Dell updated drivers about two weeks ago) and of course my LJ4000
printer was happy from the git-go. Then again, both these printers
support both Postscript and PCL5.
 
In message <[email protected]> BSchnur
Good for you -- my Dell color laser now works with Vista just fine
(Dell updated drivers about two weeks ago) and of course my LJ4000
printer was happy from the git-go. Then again, both these printers
support both Postscript and PCL5.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I got lucky. My HP 2605dn works great too, although it's a PCL5
and postscript based colour laser jet

I prefer to run it through a Windows 2003 server (for access control
purposes, since it's on a private VLAN and not accessible to all
workstations), so it took a bit of trickery to get the drivers to work.

All in all printer drivers have treated me well -- The lesson seems to
be to avoid low-end HP printers :)
 
In message <[email protected]> BSchnur
I understand -- but that's sort of reasonable. For me, 'high end' with
video cards is around $120 on the top end. Most of my clients run
systems with $50 to $80 cards (say 550x 850x or now 1050x on the ATI
side of things, or 6x series nvidia).
Click to expand...

I had an ATI 550 previously, I'm currently running a couple NVIDIA 7300
GT cards.

My girlfriend has an ATI x1650 in her system, it scores a fantastic 1.0
on the Experience Index on a fresh install (Although later drivers fixed
that up)
 
The reason the benchmark scores go up is due to the fact that 2 cards are
processing more information than 1 alone can.

That's why you can use benchmarks for comparisons. Even though they aren't
a game they can give you reliable data about how much of a difference there
is between products x, y, & z. :)
 
Actually between windows and mac that's not an indisputable fact.

It depends on who you are and what you are doing, so it's subjective which
means it's disputable ;)

Also the same with a circle.

No matter how "round" the circle may seem the closer it is examined the less
round it becomes in reality.

There is no such thing as a "perfect circle"
 
I had an ATI 550 previously, I'm currently running a couple NVIDIA 7300
GT cards.

My girlfriend has an ATI x1650 in her system, it scores a fantastic 1.0
on the Experience Index on a fresh install (Although later drivers fixed
that up)
Click to expand...

Understood -- driver tweaking is going to continue for months. Then it
should settle down a bit.

I've been looking at the 1050 for the next system I put together.
Good midrange+ system (AMD X2 5200, 2G of DDR2 667 RAM, SATA2 drive).
Though if I elect to spend more, it would be going with an Intel E6400.
 
Yeah, I got lucky. My HP 2605dn works great too, although it's a PCL5
and postscript based colour laser jet
Click to expand...

Which is why it does -- PCL5 and postscript are just about the first
driver set included in the code I'd bet.
I prefer to run it through a Windows 2003 server (for access control
purposes, since it's on a private VLAN and not accessible to all
workstations), so it took a bit of trickery to get the drivers to work.
Click to expand...

Ah yes, == well this is a home network behind a firewall, and
restricting access within the house (no children here) is not something
I have think about.
All in all printer drivers have treated me well -- The lesson seems to
be to avoid low-end HP printers :)
Click to expand...

I look at most low end printers as something akin to the guy peddling
dope at middle schools -- getting folks addicted to the profit making
ink.
 
In message <[email protected]> BSchnur
Understood -- driver tweaking is going to continue for months. Then it
should settle down a bit.

I've been looking at the 1050 for the next system I put together.
Good midrange+ system (AMD X2 5200, 2G of DDR2 667 RAM, SATA2 drive).
Though if I elect to spend more, it would be going with an Intel E6400.
Click to expand...

In my case I had little choice about the card, I'm one of the Microsoft
whores that got a "review" system :)

Out of the box, it scored a 1.0. I believe I have a PDA that can score
higher then that (although the CPU obviously isn't x86)

Myself, I haven't even touched the system :)
 
In message <[email protected]> BSchnur
Which is why it does -- PCL5 and postscript are just about the first
driver set included in the code I'd bet.
Click to expand...

Yup :)
Ah yes, == well this is a home network behind a firewall, and
restricting access within the house (no children here) is not something
I have think about.
Click to expand...

There are kids around, although they're on their own VLAN anyway. I
mostly just like playing big-network-admin on my home LAN, it's a hobby,
and builds some interesting experience.

It's also the only way to deploy the printer via group policy -- I'm big
on having my systems essentially configure themselves after a virgin OS
install.
I look at most low end printers as something akin to the guy peddling
dope at middle schools -- getting folks addicted to the profit making
ink.
Click to expand...

Sure, but for light use, it's more economical to buy a $50 printer then
buying a $500+ printer if you'd never even put $500 worth of ink through
the $50 printer.

Not only that, but many of Canon's lower end printers work just fine. My
PIXMA MP750 works with Vista out of the box for both printing and
scanning, the printer portion shares over the network without any pain,
it warns me the ink is low (which triggers a lot of people to replace
the ink tanks I suspect, shame on Canon for not making it more clear
that low != out), then it warns me again when the ink is out.

On the Canon I get exactly one page (5% output-ish) after it says "ink
is out" before it's obvious from the output that I really do need more
ink.

The ink tanks are transparent, so you can visibly see how much ink you
have left. You can also force the printer to keep going when you're out
of ink (risking the nozzles), so you can get that last page of printed
text looking crappy, rather then my last experience with a low-end HP,
where it decided the page count was sufficient and the printer refused
to even try.

</rant>
 
In my case I had little choice about the card, I'm one of the Microsoft
whores that got a "review" system :)
Click to expand...

Oh said:
Out of the box, it scored a 1.0. I believe I have a PDA that can score
higher then that (although the CPU obviously isn't x86)
Click to expand...
Ah -- well, I guess you should have gotten Microsoft to procure for you
a better set of hardware so that you would be appropriately pleasured.
 
Ah yes, == well this is a home network behind a firewall, and
There are kids around, although they're on their own VLAN anyway. I
mostly just like playing big-network-admin on my home LAN, it's a hobby,
and builds some interesting experience.
Click to expand...
Right, I have a NW 4.2 and NW 6.5 server here for that purpose. I'll
be deploying an SBS 2003 SR1 server later this year -- also helps for
client support.
Sure, but for light use, it's more economical to buy a $50 printer then
buying a $500+ printer if you'd never even put $500 worth of ink through
the $50 printer.
Click to expand...

Understood -- my wife prints out over 1K pages a month -- having an LJ
4000 makes the price right. We just got that Dell color laser in
December -- more expensive than the LJ 4000 -- but less expensive per
page than any ink jet. The trick with the newer color laser printers,
you no longer have to deal with the pain of replacing drums and belts
frequently. Just the toner cartridges.

We don't use the color laser printer all that much, though I'll print
out a few pages every week just to keep it in use. My wife will print
out a batch of color prints periodically -- she's the camera buff in
the house.

The other color laser printer I've seen which seems pretty decent is
the relatively inexpensive HP 2600. Network support, no need to
replace drums and belts. Cost is about 10 cents a page for color.
 
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