Incremental cloning for XP?

[John Corliss]

XXCLONE-Pro costs $40 for a "one year subscription" on one computer. I
do not intend to pay for the ability to incrementally clone one hard
drive onto another. If need be, I will go back to Millennium Edition and
the ability to use XXCopy to do this.
I would rather stick with XP, since I have so much effort invested
at this point into the upgrade, so I'm looking for a way to duplicate
the capability in this version of Windows. Here are some prospects that
I've noted:

1. XXCopy after doing an XXClone.

http://www.xxcopy.com
http://www.xxclone.com

2. Corbian Backup:

http://www.educ.umu.se/~cobian/cobianbackup.htm

3. Karen's Powertools Replicator:

http://www.karenware.com/powertools/ptreplicator.asp

4. DFIncBackup

http://www.dfincbackup.net/index.htm

5. DriveImage XML:

http://www.runtime.org/dixml.htm

6. Even Microsoft's own "Backup":

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/setup/learnmore/bott_03july14.mspx

I'm not entirely sure of the freeware status of all of these, nor even
if all of them do incremental cloning. These are just possibilities.

I'm not looking for a program that will create an image or otherwise
will back up files into a compressed file, so I think nos. 5 & 6 may not
suit the bill. What I'm looking for is a freeware program that will do
incremental cloning the way XXCopy works in Millennium Edition when
using the /Clone parameter.
In other words, I run two hard drives and want to sort of "RAID on
demand" them the way I was doing in ME. That way, when the main drive
fails, all I have to do is to hook up the backup and clone it onto a new
drive.

By the way, I've tried the XXClone/XXCopy method and for some reason it
doesn't work very well. That may be because I have my data files stored
in a folder that's not buried layers down in the $#%&!@! "Documents and
Settings" folder.

PLEASE NOTE! I am _NOT_ looking for recommendations of other ways to
back up my data! I do not want this thread to turn into a discussion of
other ways to back up files other than cloning an exact copy of one hard
drive onto a second one (internal in my case). If anybody tries to
divert this thread into such a conversation, I will reply only with a
quote of this portion of the OP.

In other words, do not preach to me about technique, please. I know what
works for me and intend to stick with that method.

Having said that, does anybody have any other possible freeware program
recommendations for incremental cloning or remarks (regarding the
technique I describe) on the programs I've listed above?

TIA

--
Regards from John Corliss
I don't reply to trolls and other such idiots. No adware, cdware,
commercial software, crippleware, demoware, nagware, PROmotionware,
shareware, spyware, time-limited software, trialware, viruses or warez
please.

 

[Thomas Lauer]

PLEASE NOTE! I am _NOT_ looking for recommendations of other ways to
back up my data! I do not want this thread to turn into a discussion of
other ways to back up files other than cloning an exact copy of one hard
drive onto a second one (internal in my case).

I am using win2k but I would think the following works for XP as well.
Here's what I do:

Partition C: (on hd0) has my main win2k system with all bells&whistles;
partition D: (on hd1) has a plain win2k out of the box plus syncing and
some emergency software installed (xxcopy, robocopy, whatevercopy...)

On a third partition, directory \Drive_C.sav\ has a (n almost) full copy
of C:\ and \Drive_D.sav\ has a (n almost) full copy of D:\
(almost means that I don't copy stuff like hiberfil.sys and c:\tmp\*)

All partitions are NTFS (mixing FATxx and NTFS when syncing via
date/time is not the best of ideas).

By multibooting between the two Win2ks as needed I can easily sync files
in the non-active partition. This is a safer and much quicker method
than any other I have found. And it allows for two-way syncing which has
saved my bacon more than once, though that's probably not for noobs or
the faint-of-heart.

True, there is a small effort required to install a second system and to
get the multibooting up and running but this is more than repaid over
time by the ease and stability of the method. And having a second
bootable system around seems like a good idea anyway...

 

[Mark Warner]

I'm not looking for a program that will create an image or otherwise
will back up files into a compressed file, so I think nos. 5 & 6 may
not suit the bill. What I'm looking for is a freeware program that
will do incremental cloning the way XXCopy works in Millennium
Edition when using the /Clone parameter.

I use Karen's Replicator to automatically backup my My Documents
directory and a handful of other sub-directories of my C:\ drive to a
partition on a secondary drive. It is set up to do this daily. I
wouldn't call it a "cloning" (and I don't think what you're describing
would rightly be called "cloning", either); if my primary drive does
fail I'll still have to do a full install/update/configure/tweak of the
OS, but I'll have everything I need to do it quickly and cleanly right
there on that backup partition.

Replicator does incremental backups, BTW. By that I mean it doesn't
copy/over-write everything every time, it just copys over the changes
made in the source to the target.

 

[John Corliss]

I use Karen's Replicator to automatically backup my My Documents
directory and a handful of other sub-directories of my C:\ drive to a
partition on a secondary drive. It is set up to do this daily. I
wouldn't call it a "cloning" (and I don't think what you're describing
would rightly be called "cloning", either);

Mark, *of course* it's cloning. And please note that I said
*incremental* cloning. The /Clone parameter in XXCopy incoporates the
follwing other parameters into one:

/CLONE Duplicates a directory (volume). This switch is a shortcut of
the following combination: /KS/H/E/R/Q/Y/BI/ZY/ZE/oD0.

/KS Keeps the source attributes including the read-only bit.
/H Copies hidden and/or system files also.
/E Copies directories and subdirectories, including empty ones.
/R Overwrites read-only files.
/Q Does not display files which are skipped.
/Y Overwrites existing files without prompting
/BI Backs up incrementally, different (by time/size) files only.
/ZY Deletes extra files or subdirectories in destination, no
confirmation prompt.
/ZE Disables the use of all Environment Variables for XXCOPY.
/oD0 Deleted file list (by a /Z or /ZY switch).

Here is the command I had in a shortcut on my desktop when I was running ME:

C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\XXCOPY.EXE c:\ d:\ /clone /YY /xC:\WINDOWS\WIN386.SWP
/xC:\_RESTORE\*\ /Foc:\_2\xxcopy.log

Heck, I even named the shortcut "Clone the hard drive". The first time I
ran it on an empty backup drive, it copied everything off of the main
drive (except the swap file and the _RESTORE folder). From that point
on, running it would only do the following:

1. Update files that had been changed
2. Delete files that had been removed
3. Add files that had been created.

If a file hadn't been changed and already existed, it would leave it
alone. I.e., it would not unnecessarily overwrite it with an identical
copy, thus wasting time and resources.

Now Mark, if that isn't incremental cloning, I don't know what is.

Twice, when my main hard drives failed, all I did was to take the drive
out and reattach the backup hard drive in the master position. I was
then immediately able to boot up and run off of the backup drive until
my replacement for the main drive showed up. When it did show up, I
simply did the following:

1. Set it up in the master position using the manufacturer's utility.
2. Connect it in the slave position, and the backup as the master.
3. Clone the backup onto the main.
4. Switch the drive positions

and VOILA! Back to normal.

Note that the MBR was never an issue because when I set up all of my
drives, I set them up to be the boot drive. It was just that simple.

if my primary drive does
fail I'll still have to do a full install/update/configure/tweak of the
OS, but I'll have everything I need to do it quickly and cleanly right
there on that backup partition.

This is exactly what I want to avoid having to do.

Replicator does incremental backups, BTW. By that I mean it doesn't
copy/over-write everything every time, it just copys over the changes
made in the source to the target.

However, I believe it doesn't deal with running system files like XXCopy
did in ME.

--
Regards from John Corliss
I don't reply to trolls and other such idiots. No adware, cdware,
commercial software, crippleware, demoware, nagware, PROmotionware,
shareware, spyware, time-limited software, trialware, viruses or warez
please.

 

[John Corliss]

I am using win2k but I would think the following works for XP as well.
Here's what I do:

Partition C: (on hd0) has my main win2k system with all bells&whistles;
partition D: (on hd1) has a plain win2k out of the box plus syncing and
some emergency software installed (xxcopy, robocopy, whatevercopy...)

On a third partition, directory \Drive_C.sav\ has a (n almost) full copy
of C:\ and \Drive_D.sav\ has a (n almost) full copy of D:\
(almost means that I don't copy stuff like hiberfil.sys and c:\tmp\*)

All partitions are NTFS (mixing FATxx and NTFS when syncing via
date/time is not the best of ideas).

By multibooting between the two Win2ks as needed I can easily sync files
in the non-active partition. This is a safer and much quicker method
than any other I have found. And it allows for two-way syncing which has
saved my bacon more than once, though that's probably not for noobs or
the faint-of-heart.

True, there is a small effort required to install a second system and to
get the multibooting up and running but this is more than repaid over
time by the ease and stability of the method. And having a second
bootable system around seems like a good idea anyway...

*sigh*

Thanks, but what I want is basically "RAID on demand". I don't want to
have to **** with things the way you describe. I just want to have a
simple program that makes my backup hard drive an exact copy of my main
hard drive, and incrementally. Here's exactly what I was doing before
when I was using ME (copied from my reply to Mark Warner):


I was using the /Clone parameter in XXCopy, which incoporates the
follwing other parameters into one:

/CLONE Duplicates a directory (volume). This switch is a shortcut
of the following combination: /KS/H/E/R/Q/Y/BI/ZY/ZE/oD0.

/KS Keeps the source attributes including the read-only bit.
/H Copies hidden and/or system files also.
/E Copies directories and subdirectories, including empty ones.
/R Overwrites read-only files.
/Q Does not display files which are skipped.
/Y Overwrites existing files without prompting
/BI Backs up incrementally, different (by time/size) files only.
/ZY Deletes extra files or subdirectories in destination, no
confirmation prompt.
/ZE Disables the use of all Environment Variables for XXCOPY.
/oD0 Deleted file list (by a /Z or /ZY switch).

Here is the command I had in a shortcut on my desktop when I was running ME:

C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\XXCOPY.EXE c:\ d:\ /clone /YY /xC:\WINDOWS\WIN386.SWP
/xC:\_RESTORE\*\ /Foc:\_2\xxcopy.log

Heck, I even named the shortcut "Clone the hard drive". The first time I
ran it on an empty backup drive, it copied everything off of the main
drive (except the swap file and the _RESTORE folder). From that point
on, running it would only do the following:

1. Update files that had been changed
2. Delete files that had been removed
3. Add files that had been created.

If a file hadn't been changed and already existed, it would leave it
alone. I.e., it would not unnecessarily overwrite it with an identical
copy, thus wasting time and resources.

Twice, when my main hard drives failed, all I did was to take the drive
out and reattach the backup hard drive in the master position. I was
then immediately able to boot up and run off of the backup drive until
my replacement for the main drive showed up. When it did show up, I
simply did the following:

1. Set it up in the master position using the manufacturer's utility.
2. Connect it in the slave position, and the backup as the master.
3. Clone the backup onto the main.
4. Switch the drive positions

and VOILA! Back to normal.

Note that the MBR was never an issue because when I set up all of my
drives, I set them up to be the boot drive. It was just that simple.

What I am looking for is a FREEWARE program that will behave in XP
exactly the way XXCopy operated in ME as I described above. The simpler,
the better.

--
Regards from John Corliss
I don't reply to trolls and other such idiots. No adware, cdware,
commercial software, crippleware, demoware, nagware, PROmotionware,
shareware, spyware, time-limited software, trialware, viruses or warez
please.

 

[Mark Warner]

[snipped it all]

Sorry I wasted your time and mine. Trust me, it won't happen again.

 

[burris]

[snipped it all]

Sorry I wasted your time and mine. Trust me, it won't happen again.

Mark....

Touché


burris

 

[MoiMeme]

Why not use the Superflexible File Synchronizer ? www.superfexible.com
It can sync folders / drives with exact mirror possible. Fast, simple very
flexible ( you also can do sync without deleting data in dest drive when
bigger / read-only etc, use filters on source to not copyy useless data ( ex
hibernating filr, swapp file, temp files ...)

Use it everyday. Fast . relibale. And a fully automatic mode exists

Hope that helps you
Phil

 

[Ivan V. Klattrup]

Superflexible File Synchronizer

Is it *freeware* ?

 

[Thomas Lauer]

Thanks, but what I want is basically "RAID on demand". I don't want to
have to **** with things the way you describe.

You're of course free to **** with things in any way that pleases you. I
am doing PCs since 25+ years and have found to my cost that ****ing with
things in this way is IN THE LONG RUN the cheaper alternative.

At any rate, I answered not only for your benefit. Never mind.

 

[John Corliss]

Is it *freeware* ?

Doesn't look like it. Seems to be 30 day trailware unless I'm missing
something. And the link MoiMeme gave was misspelled.

--
Regards from John Corliss
I don't reply to trolls and other such idiots. No adware, cdware,
commercial software, crippleware, demoware, nagware, PROmotionware,
shareware, spyware, time-limited software, trialware, viruses or warez
please.

 

[John Corliss]

Doesn't look like it. Seems to be 30 day trailware unless I'm missing
something. And the link MoiMeme gave was misspelled.

Eh... make that "trialware", not "trailware". Never heard of trailware
before.

--
Regards from John Corliss
I don't reply to trolls and other such idiots. No adware, cdware,
commercial software, crippleware, demoware, nagware, PROmotionware,
shareware, spyware, time-limited software, trialware, viruses or warez
please.

 

[John Corliss]

You're of course free to **** with things in any way that pleases you. I
am doing PCs since 25+ years and have found to my cost that ****ing with
things in this way is IN THE LONG RUN the cheaper alternative.

Yep, it's been over 29 years now for me and I'm sure there are others in
this group who've been working with computers longer than that. So what.

At any rate, I answered not only for your benefit. Never mind.

Well, I appreciate that. And thanks for your reply. However, what I'm
looking for is a FREEWARE program that will behave in XP exactly the way
XXCopy operated in ME as I described above. The simpler, the better.
That's why I started this thread.

--
Regards from John Corliss
I don't reply to trolls and other such idiots. No adware, cdware,
commercial software, crippleware, demoware, nagware, PROmotionware,
shareware, spyware, time-limited software, trialware, viruses or warez
please.

 

[John Corliss]

[snipped it all]

Sorry I wasted your time and mine. Trust me, it won't happen again.

Now Mark, don't get your nose bent. I simply don't understand how you
could say that what I was describing was not incremental cloning. In
fact, I don't think I really was describing anything at all in the OP. I
simply said, more or less, that I was looking for another freeware
program that can do what XXCopy did with the /Clone parameter in M.E.

Just out of curiousity (assuming you haven't killfiled me) what *do* you
consider to be "cloning"?

I note that some people believe that hard drive cloning must involve
some kind of "image file" of the drive's contents, which is then used to
restore the contents to another drive.
To me, that's only a mechanism whereby companies like Norton force
you to use their software to do the restore. Thus, all I'm looking for
is a freeware program that, on demand, can occasionally "synchronize" my
entire backup hard drive with my main drive. And I want the program to
incrementally clone the entire drive, not just a few folders.

--
Regards from John Corliss
I don't reply to trolls and other such idiots. No adware, cdware,
commercial software, crippleware, demoware, nagware, PROmotionware,
shareware, spyware, time-limited software, trialware, viruses or warez
please.

 

[Susan Bugher]

Eh... make that "trialware", not "trailware". Never heard of trailware
before.

I have. Google search:
Results 1 - 100 of about 2,150 for software trailware

I think Trailware would be a good ware name for portable apps. . . if
it weren't for the confusion that would follow. . .

Susan
--
Posted to alt.comp.freeware
Search alt.comp.freeware (or read it online):
http://www.google.com/advanced_group_search?q=+group:alt.comp.freeware
Pricelessware & ACF: http://www.pricelesswarehome.org
Pricelessware: http://www.pricelessware.org (not maintained)

 

[Daddy Xmas]

Yep, it's been over 29 years now for me and I'm sure there are others
in this group who've been working with computers longer than that. So
what.

29 years, and still needing help with a simple cloning setup ? You must
be a slow learner JC.

Well, I appreciate that. And thanks for your reply. However, what I'm
looking for is a FREEWARE program that will behave in XP exactly the
way XXCopy operated in ME as I described above. The simpler, the
better. That's why I started this thread.

As has ben pointed out to you in several threads now, that simple
solution, XXCopy and other copying apps, WON'T do what you want it to do
in XP.

 

[burris]

29 years, and still needing help with a simple cloning setup ? You must
be a slow learner JC.


As has ben pointed out to you in several threads now, that simple
solution, XXCopy and other copying apps, WON'T do what you want it to do
in XP.

Maybe we should all just "clone" our replies

burris

 

[MoiMeme]

Correct : link is www.superflexible.com. Sorry for the misspelling !
Not freeware : but so much performant that I finally bought it ( cheap
enough whenone consider the flexbility of it)
I everdyaty superflexible all my valuable data I build/ modified ( sometimes
even several times a day). BUT allways to a different hard dribve, not only
different partition. So I would almost be impossible to loose all data.
Also, the destination drive is Firewire and only connected to PC just for
sync, and after verifying with Spyweeper and KAV that the source files are
virus/sy free.
As soon as sync is perfomred, drive is disconnected.

In my opinion this is one of my most precious and money-valuable software
ever bought along with Acronis TrueImage ( but thete stay with version8 - 9
isn't yet mature enough)

Karen's replicator is free but so much less configurable.

Good luck again.
Giev supreflexible a try ::you will probabluy want to buy the license !
Phil

 

[Al Klein]

Eh... make that "trialware", not "trailware". Never heard of trailware
before.

Otherwise known as "bread-crumb ware"?

 

[John Corliss]

Correct : link is www.superflexible.com. Sorry for the misspelling !
Not freeware : but so much performant that I finally bought it ( cheap
enough whenone consider the flexbility of it)
I everdyaty superflexible all my valuable data I build/ modified ( sometimes
even several times a day). BUT allways to a different hard dribve, not only
different partition. So I would almost be impossible to loose all data.
Also, the destination drive is Firewire and only connected to PC just for
sync, and after verifying with Spyweeper and KAV that the source files are
virus/sy free. As soon as sync is perfomred, drive is disconnected.

In my opinion this is one of my most precious and money-valuable software
ever bought along with Acronis TrueImage ( but thete stay with version8 - 9
isn't yet mature enough)

Karen's replicator is free but so much less configurable.

Good luck again.
Giev supreflexible a try ::you will probabluy want to buy the license !

However in the OP, I clearly said "I do not intend to pay for the
ability to incrementally clone one hard drive onto another." Not only
that, but I believe that my signature file (which you even quoted!)
speaks for itself.

Regardless, this group is supposed to be for the discussion of freeware,
and recommending commercial software is about as off-topic as you can
get here. I know your intentions were good, but please refrain from such
recommendations.

--
Regards from John Corliss
I don't reply to trolls and other such idiots. No adware, cdware,
commercial software, crippleware, demoware, nagware, PROmotionware,
shareware, spyware, time-limited software, trialware, viruses or warez
please.