Question about XXClone

[John Corliss]

Now that I'm using XP, XXCopy will apparently no longer fit the bill.
Others in this group have recommended that I instead use XXClone, so I
downloaded and installed it. My intent is to do a total clone initially,
then do incremental clones from that point on. An incremental clone only
modifies files that have been changed, copies new files that have been
added, deletes files on the backup drive that are no longer present on
the main drive. When I start the program. I notice that only the first
and last options aren't grayed out. Does this change after doing the
first clone so that I can do incremental clones?

Also, why do all the options say "Make the target volume bootable",
since presumeably this would only need to be done once?

TIA

--
Regards from John Corliss
I don't reply to trolls and other such idiots. No adware, cdware,
commercial software, crippleware, demoware, nagware, PROmotionware,
shareware, spyware, time-limited software, trialware, viruses or warez
please.

 

[burris]

Now that I'm using XP, XXCopy will apparently no longer fit the bill.
Others in this group have recommended that I instead use XXClone, so I
downloaded and installed it. My intent is to do a total clone initially,
then do incremental clones from that point on. An incremental clone only
modifies files that have been changed, copies new files that have been
added, deletes files on the backup drive that are no longer present on
the main drive. When I start the program. I notice that only the first
and last options aren't grayed out. Does this change after doing the
first clone so that I can do incremental clones?

Also, why do all the options say "Make the target volume bootable",
since presumeably this would only need to be done once?

TIA

John....

I was one of the beta testers on this program and use it without fail
for my simple needs. I have a second HDD in my PCs and use this program
for my backup needs.
Remember, cloning XP is quite different than cloning 98.

I would suggest your signing up to the xxclone forum in the Google
groups. There you can ask away and see that others have many of the same
questions.

http://groups.google.com/group/Xxclone

It is vital that you read the documentation that accompanies xxclone.

burris

 

[Exiddor]

On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 04:50:46 -0800, John Corliss wrote:

[...]

When I start the program. I notice that only the first
and last options aren't grayed out. Does this change after doing the
first clone so that I can do incremental clones?

[...]

Incremental backup is only available in the paid version.

 

[Art]

On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 04:50:46 -0800, John Corliss wrote:

[...]

When I start the program. I notice that only the first
and last options aren't grayed out. Does this change after doing the
first clone so that I can do incremental clones?

[...]

Incremental backup is only available in the paid version.

BTW, Beta version 0.5 is available here:

http://www.xxclone.com/betatest/

Art

http://home.epix.net/~artnpeg

 

[REM]

Exiddor <[email protected]> wrote:

Incremental backup is only available in the paid version.

The freeware version seems good enough. I've never used it, but
incremental backups seem dangerous to me as far as the file system
goes. If some nasty gets in undetected it will be copied to the
backup.

Now if you can select specific data files to backup I'd feel better
about it I guess.

You might check out the UBCD4Win project John. It rocks!

http://www.ubcd4win.com/

This is a very nice package of freeware utilities in a bootable XP CD.

I'm using the CD and DrvImagerXP to backup\restore now.

 

[Art]

The freeware version seems good enough. I've never used it, but
incremental backups seem dangerous to me as far as the file system
goes. If some nasty gets in undetected it will be copied to the
backup.

Exactly. I find it best to keep a pristine bootable cloned drive on
the shelf until I need it for disaster recovery. Incremental backup
requires extensive testing and scanning to insure that no malware
and spyware and other problems are being backed up. A separate
backup drive (and XXCOPY) can be used for routine data backup.

Art

http://home.epix.net/~artnpeg

 

[badgolferman]

Art, 12/20/2005, 11:13:05 AM,

A separate
backup drive (and XXCOPY) can be used for routine data backup.

If you want data backup why not use something like Karen's Replicator?
If you want entire drive systems backed up you need something more
robust.

 

[Art]

Art, 12/20/2005, 11:13:05 AM,


If you want data backup why not use something like Karen's Replicator?

Because I like the command line-with-batch-file arrangement I use with
XXCOPY.

If you want entire drive systems backed up you need something more
robust.

XXCOPY for the Win 9x/ME series and XXCLONE for the NT based OS are
plenty robust for me. They work very well.

Art

http://home.epix.net/~artnpeg

 

[Dave C.]

Now that I'm using XP, XXCopy will apparently no longer fit the bill.
Others in this group have recommended that I instead use XXClone, so I
downloaded and installed it. My intent is to do a total clone initially,
then do incremental clones from that point on. An incremental clone only
modifies files that have been changed, copies new files that have been
added, deletes files on the backup drive that are no longer present on the
main drive. When I start the program. I notice that only the first and
last options aren't grayed out. Does this change after doing the first
clone so that I can do incremental clones?

Also, why do all the options say "Make the target volume bootable", since
presumeably this would only need to be done once?

TIA

--
Regards from John Corliss
I don't reply to trolls and other such idiots. No adware, cdware,
commercial software, crippleware, demoware, nagware, PROmotionware,
shareware, spyware, time-limited software, trialware, viruses or warez
please.

John,

You can go to the link below and you will find version 0.44 "Test Drive"
which gives you full functionality for 30 days after which it reverts to the
freeware version functionality.

For the Test Drive link:

http://xxclone.com/idwnload.htm

I did that and on my machine it ran flawlessly. Since then, I purchased the
permanent version which is up to .05 now.

Everybody's needs are different. I am strictly a home user. I installed a
second or slave hard drive....120 gig. My master is an 80 gig with about a
total of 40 gig of use. I partitioned my slave drive with two partitions,
60 gig each. On the first partition of the slave, I cloned my master drive.
On the second partition of the slave, I then copy over all my data folders
and files (about 2 gig) of interest more often. Less frequently, I do an
incremental update. With xxclone, the target drive does not have to be as
big as the source drive as long as it has enough plus some extra to hold all
the files. My reason for doing this is that when (not if) my hard drive
fails, I will have some sort of usable and bootable backup for me to rely
on.

As a recent poster mentioned, the Google XXClone forum is excellent.

 

[John Corliss]

Exactly. I find it best to keep a pristine bootable cloned drive on
the shelf until I need it for disaster recovery. Incremental backup
requires extensive testing and scanning to insure that no malware
and spyware and other problems are being backed up. A separate
backup drive (and XXCOPY) can be used for routine data backup.

Art, I'm sure we all do this differently. However, I prefer to use an
incrementally cloned hard drive further backed up by occasionally
copying data and other files to CD and DVD.

Simply put, if incremental backup isn't available in XXClone, then I
will uninstall it and hopefully be able to move on to something else.

When I was using XXCopy in ME, I had a shortcut on the desktop that I
occasionally double clicked to initiate an incremental backup. It was
simplicity itself! That I can no longer do this is frankly, damned near
enough to make me want to go back to ME. And I could easily go back to
ME precicely because I *do* have an incrementally cloned and bootable
hard drive that is an exact snapshot of my computer's state just before
I did the update.

See, my question was not about the best way to back up my computer, but
was simply "is incremental cloning available in XXClone."

Don't take offense, but a simple yes-or-no answer would have sufficed.

--
Regards from John Corliss
I don't reply to trolls and other such idiots. No adware, cdware,
commercial software, crippleware, demoware, nagware, PROmotionware,
shareware, spyware, time-limited software, trialware, viruses or warez
please.

 

[John Corliss]

John....

I was one of the beta testers on this program and use it without fail
for my simple needs. I have a second HDD in my PCs and use this program
for my backup needs.
Remember, cloning XP is quite different than cloning 98.

Yes..... but is incremental cloning possible with the freeware version?

I would suggest your signing up to the xxclone forum in the Google
groups. There you can ask away and see that others have many of the same
questions.

http://groups.google.com/group/Xxclone

I could of course, but I'd rather not do so. I don't agree with or
intend to accept the "Google Terms of Service for Your Personal Use"
that is a requirment for subscribing to that forum. Don't take offense
(and why *would* you?), but having to make a legal commitment simply for
the purpose of discussing something is IMO, total bullshit.

It is vital that you read the documentation that accompanies xxclone.

Well of course I did this! I'm sure you're aware that I'm not exactly
what you'd call a newbie to this group or the use of freeware. And in
the entire XXCLONE help file, I saw no mention of whether or not
incremental backups are possible with the freeware version. In fact, the
help file's page titled "XXCLONE Freeware" says the following (copied
and pasted from the most current version of XXClone's help file):

"This section is going to talk about xxxxxxxxxxxxx.
This section is under construction."

Frankly, whether or not the freeware version of XXClone has incremental
cloning is a simple yes-or-no question. It amazes me that I can't seem
to get that answer here!

That the answer doesn't seem to be obviously stated on the XXClone
website, is either an oversight or by design. I of course, have no idea
which it is. I looked at the site's "FAQ" and it's entirely about their
licensing scheme. No answers to what I consider to be my two, very
fundamental questions are provided there or anywhere else on the site,
unless I'm missing something.

On this page: http://xxclone.com/iwhatis.htm there is the following:

"The Pro version is ideal for daily backup."

Only after (I hope) thoroughly reading the help file and going over the
XXCLONE website did I post my questions here. And if incremental cloning
ISN'T available in the non-pro version of XXClone, then I would consider
the program to be unacceptably crippled and not freeware.

Note that I'm not making a value judgement about whether or not it was a
good or a bad thing to make this feature unavailable in the non-pro
version. I am simply stating my viewpoint about the program's status as
freeware. I.e.: it isn't.

If anybody disagrees, that is their right to do so.

--
Regards from John Corliss
I don't reply to trolls and other such idiots. No adware, cdware,
commercial software, crippleware, demoware, nagware, PROmotionware,
shareware, spyware, time-limited software, trialware, viruses or warez
please.

 

[John Corliss]

John Corliss wrote:

[...]

When I start the program. I notice that only the first
and last options aren't grayed out. Does this change after doing the
first clone so that I can do incremental clones?

[...]

Incremental backup is only available in the paid version.

Exiddor, thank you very much for providing a simple answer to that very
simple question!

80)>

--
Regards from John Corliss
I don't reply to trolls and other such idiots. No adware, cdware,
commercial software, crippleware, demoware, nagware, PROmotionware,
shareware, spyware, time-limited software, trialware, viruses or warez
please.

 

[Art]

Only after (I hope) thoroughly reading the help file and going over the
XXCLONE website did I post my questions here. And if incremental cloning
ISN'T available in the non-pro version of XXClone, then I would consider
the program to be unacceptably crippled and not freeware.

However, each person will have their own idea of "unacceptably
crippled" ... and some would consider XXCOPY to also not be
freeware using that nebulous and highly subjective criteria. As long
as a crippleware is highly useful to some of us, I consider it to be
freeware.

Art

http://home.epix.net/~artnpeg

 

[John Fitzsimons]

On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 05:07:59 -0800, John Corliss

See, my question was not about the best way to back up my computer, but
was simply "is incremental cloning available in XXClone."

Hi John,

The answer was "yes". Did you miss ;

Message-ID: <[email protected]> ?


Regards, John.

--
****************************************************
,-._|\ (A.C.F FAQ) http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/faq.html
/ Oz \ John Fitzsimons - Melbourne, Australia.
\_,--.x/ http://www.vicnet.net.au/~johnf/welcome.htm
v http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/

 

[John Corliss]

I should have said "IMO not freeware."

not freeware.

And the reason I consider this to be so is that my recent history has
been that at considerable expense, annoyance and effort, I've had to
replace several hard drives because of wearing them out. Anybody would
have to admit that wiping a backup hard drive out and then copying the
entire main hard drive to it is a lot of hard drive activity.
Incremental cloning is MUCH less hard drive intensive. And yes Art, I'm
aware that you don't believe in incremental cloning. I however do due to
different useage patterns. Thus, from my viewpoint an inability to use
incremental cloning is an unacceptable limitation and as a result the
non-pro version of XXClone is of no interest to me.

Yes, reduced functionality IS an entirely subjective area. I am fully
aware of that.

However, each person will have their own idea of "unacceptably
crippled" ... and some would consider XXCOPY to also not be
freeware using that nebulous and highly subjective criteria. As long
as a crippleware is highly useful to some of us, I consider it to be
freeware.

Art, as I said (and as you carefully didn't quote):

Note that I'm not making a value judgement about whether or not it was
a good or a bad thing to make this feature unavailable in the non-pro
version. I am simply stating my viewpoint about the program's status as
freeware. I.e.: it isn't.

Again, should have said "IMO, it isn't."

If anybody disagrees, that is their right to do so.

AKA YMMV. Personally and from my viewpoint, I'm disappointed that
Pixelab decided not to make XXCopy work with XP and to maneuver things
so that people would be more likely to buy a copy of XXClone. It's their
right to do this, but it's my right not to like it.

What was really frustrating though, is that it was so difficult for me
to finally determine that *the non-pro version of XXClone won't do
incremental cloning.* And it won't, so XXClone is off of my system.
Period. End of story. Finisimo. Extrémité. Extremidade.

--
Regards from John Corliss
I don't reply to trolls and other such idiots. No adware, cdware,
commercial software, crippleware, demoware, nagware, PROmotionware,
shareware, spyware, time-limited software, trialware, viruses or warez
please.

 

[John Corliss]

John Corliss wrote:



Hi John,

The answer was "yes". Did you miss ;

Message-ID: <[email protected]> ?

I guess you didn't notice that I cancelled the message you're referring to?

--
Regards from John Corliss
I don't reply to trolls and other such idiots. No adware, cdware,
commercial software, crippleware, demoware, nagware, PROmotionware,
shareware, spyware, time-limited software, trialware, viruses or warez
please.

 

[ms]

John Corliss wrote:
I've had to

replace several hard drives because of wearing them out.

John, those words are of real interest to me.

What brand were your hard drives?

Did you run the computer 24/7? I have done 8/24 ever since I started.

How many years/hours did the hard drives last before you noticed errors? (I assume
that's what you meant by worn out?)

What's behind these questions is- My computer guy says anything over 3 years is
gravy, and that's with Western Digital, I use and he feels is best. My original
2.5 GB drive from 1997 still works fine, my 15 GB drive from 2001 is maybe now
showing signs of age.

TIA

Mike Sa

 

[Al Klein]

What's behind these questions is- My computer guy says anything over 3 years is
gravy, and that's with Western Digital, I use and he feels is best.

Tell your computer guy that he's about 18 months behind the times. WD
has, imo and the opinions of others, been slipping in quality.

 

[John Corliss]

John, those words are of real interest to me.

What brand were your hard drives?

Maxtor (little over two years I think) and Seagate (9 months).

Did you run the computer 24/7?

I always turn off my computer when I'm not on it.

I have done 8/24 ever since I started.

How many years/hours did the hard drives last before you noticed errors?

See above. And what tips me off is a "Click... Click... Click..." noise
when you fire up the system. When you hear that noise, you'd better have
all important files backed up. In fact, that's why I have two cloned
hard drives in my computer now. Saved my bacon twice.

(I assume that's what you meant by worn out?)

What's behind these questions is- My computer guy says anything over 3
years is gravy,

He's absolutely correct.

and that's with Western Digital, I use and he feels is
best. My original 2.5 GB drive from 1997 still works fine, my 15 GB
drive from 2001 is maybe now showing signs of age.

TIA

It's precisely because I use two cloned hard drives and have had those
crashes that I feel so strongly about XXCopy and XXClone. I really am
very close to going back to ME so that I can use XXCopy.

--
Regards from John Corliss
I don't reply to trolls and other such idiots. No adware, cdware,
commercial software, crippleware, demoware, nagware, PROmotionware,
shareware, spyware, time-limited software, trialware, viruses or warez
please.

 

[=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=BBQ=AB?=]

See above. And what tips me off is a "Click... Click... Click..."
noise when you fire up the system. When you hear that noise, you'd
better have all important files backed up. In fact, that's why I
have two cloned hard drives in my computer now. Saved my bacon
twice.

Though I had backups, just thinking about that clicking/clinking noise
puts a bit of a knot in my stomach. Anyone who hears them should
immediately back up anything that isn't already backed up /before/
running any of the manufacturer's diagnostics. Diagnostics stress the
drive, and both times it's happened to me, the drives have completely
failed while using them.