Imaging/Backup software

[Nil]

Agreed! I don't know what they did with the interface, but ATI
11 was great, and the succeeding versions suck, IMHO. (I
think they tried to make it more user friendly or something. Or
at least that was their intent).

Well, I think that ATI11's interface is far, far from great. If later
versions are even worse, I hate to think...

 

[Nil]

I've been using Macrium Reflect Free for a while now, but I
haven't tried this. AFAIK you should be able to explore images
when you boot with the Rescue Media (USB or CD).

I knew you could easily explore them and restore a complete image from
the boot disk, but I couldn't figure out how to restore one or some
individual files. Paul explained how, using a convoluted and
inconvenient method you actually can do it. I'm not sure it's something
I would ever need to do, but it's good to know that it can be done.

It's pretty easy to do with Acronis Trueimage 11 - there's a convenient
menu option to do so.

 

[Jason]

Maybe I don't know what you mean by a sector-by-sector backup, but if I
am correct in interpreting it to mean the same thing as a clone, you
could just look at the disk with Windows Explorer and copy the desired
file(s).

I know that I can do that with Macrium.

Acronis' default backup mode is file-by-file and they can be restored
individually. But it can also do a backup that produces a complete image
of the partition so that the restoration exactly(?) matches the original.
The program warns that this may(!) take a lot longer. I haven't seen a
need for that.

 

[Nil]

Maybe I don't know what you mean by a sector-by-sector backup, but
if I am correct in interpreting it to mean the same thing as a
clone, you could just look at the disk with Windows Explorer and
copy the desired file(s).

"Sector-by-sector" backs up the entire disk geometry, including unused
sectors. The image it creates is the same size as the original disk
(though compressed). I had to use it once when I was rescuing a fast-
failing disk, but ordinarily I don't.

 

[...winston]

Did the 2013 version resolve any of the performance and user interface
issues that plagued the 2012 version? Such as:

After backing up a partition, the ATI process continues to
consume 50% of my CPU. Can't duplicate

After backing up a partition and completely closing all ATI
windows, the ATI process remains resident and still consumes 50% of
the CPU. Can't duplicate

Partition backups routinely fail with the wonderfully
uninformative message "stream failed to open".

Testing restoration of two different partitions on the primary (Disk
0, 1 TB West. Digital) and secondary (Disk 1, 2TB Seagate) Sata drives
worked without error

Partition backups validate all backups even when the option is
deselected. Don't know or didn't notice it

Explorer will not sort an any column. The display always shows
file names sorted a-z.

? When viewing a mounted backup in Windows Explorer ? If so, works
here fine.

None of the popups will accept the enter key as OK or the escape
key as cancel. What popup ?

Every time a log entry is deleted, the list of entries
repositions itself to some "random" entry.

Didn't try. No desire to delete a log entry.

 

[...winston]

Agreed! I don't know what they did with the interface, but ATI 11 was
great, and the succeeding versions suck, IMHO. (I think they tried to
make it more user friendly or something. Or at least that was their
intent).

One of the more current issues (not related to the UI) is the
incompatibility that some folks are having with ATI13 with Windows 8.1
- depending upon how one installs Windows 8.1 (Store vs. full media)
and existing Win8 system with ATI13 may show that ATI13 is incompatible
when the installer checks for compatible software prior to initiating
the installation. More folks are seeing the incompatibility when
running the 8.1 Upgrade Advisor stand-alone download package.

And to make it even more confusing...ATI14 (as released is not
compatible with Win 8.1). Acronis is working on a solution for ATI14 but
from what I can see will not release a patch or upgrade for ATI13 users.
- Which means those who use ATI13 on Win 8 are stuck. Likewise those
who purchased ATI13 and qualify for the free ATI14 upgrade are also in a
holding pattern if they want to use ATI14 on a Win8.1 system.

 

[...winston]

I've been using Macrium Reflect Free for a while now, but I haven't
tried this. AFAIK you should be able to explore images when you boot
with the Rescue Media (USB or CD).

If this isn't what you mean and you mean really /restore/ an image, then
YES, it can be done using Rescue Media. I have done this several times.

In ATI (3 methods are avaialble)
- restore files via Bootable media interface
- restore via the program
- restore via mounting the image in Explorer

 

[SC Tom]

One of the more current issues (not related to the UI) is the
incompatibility that some folks are having with ATI13 with Windows 8.1
- depending upon how one installs Windows 8.1 (Store vs. full media) and
existing Win8 system with ATI13 may show that ATI13 is incompatible when
the installer checks for compatible software prior to initiating the
installation. More folks are seeing the incompatibility when running the
8.1 Upgrade Advisor stand-alone download package.

And to make it even more confusing...ATI14 (as released is not compatible
with Win 8.1). Acronis is working on a solution for ATI14 but from what I
can see will not release a patch or upgrade for ATI13 users.
- Which means those who use ATI13 on Win 8 are stuck. Likewise those who
purchased ATI13 and qualify for the free ATI14 upgrade are also in a
holding pattern if they want to use ATI14 on a Win8.1 system.

Seems to work fine from the boot CD. I just created an image of my Win8.1
HDD, and then restored it to a spare drive. Booted up like nothing had
changed. That was using ATI2013 build 6514.

BTW, I see what you mean about the mouse hints on the boot page. I didn't
have that on my 2010 boot CD, or on the original 2013 upgrade

 

[...winston]

Seems to work fine from the boot CD. I just created an image of my
Win8.1 HDD, and then restored it to a spare drive. Booted up like
nothing had changed. That was using ATI2013 build 6514.

BTW, I see what you mean about the mouse hints on the boot page. I
didn't have that on my 2010 boot CD, or on the original 2013 upgrade

If I may ask (sorry if I missed it earlier)...

Was your Win 8.1 an upgrade from Win 8 via the Store with ATI2013
already installed on Win 8 ?

Or

Did you install ATI2013 after upgrading to Windows 8.1 ?

 

[SC Tom]

If I may ask (sorry if I missed it earlier)...

Was your Win 8.1 an upgrade from Win 8 via the Store with ATI2013 already
installed on Win 8 ?

Or

Did you install ATI2013 after upgrading to Windows 8.1 ?

The Win8.1 upgrade was from the Store, but I didn't have ATI installed. I
haven't installed it since the earlier versions back in '08 or '09; I just
run it on boot up from the CD.

Doing it that way, I haven't run into driver or compatibility issues, for
the most part. The only reason I upgraded from ATI2010 to ATI2013 was that
on my new-ish Acer V3-731, ATI2010 would sometimes lock up on boot if I had
my WD connected before it was through booting into ATI's UI. I haven't had
that problem with ATI2013. Part of that problem may have been due to the
fact that the Acer has both USB2 and USB3 ports, even though I was always
careful to use a USB2 one.

Since I only do images (either full or incremental), I don't need to do an
installation of ATI. I find it faster and easier to do it that way. Takes
about 60 to 90 minutes to image and verify a 500GB HDD with 150GB used. It's
usually easy enough for me to find something else to do while it runs
Most times I'm not even home.

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

I knew you could easily explore them and restore a complete image from
the boot disk, but I couldn't figure out how to restore one or some
individual files. Paul explained how, using a convoluted and
inconvenient method you actually can do it. I'm not sure it's something
I would ever need to do, but it's good to know that it can be done.

It's pretty easy to do with Acronis Trueimage 11 - there's a convenient
menu option to do so.

I was gong to post the way to restore a single file with Macrium's boot
disk, but Paul's post seemed to cover it, so I didn't, although his
description look a bit convoluted to me as well. Meanwhile my experience
is that it's simple, so I'll describe my way. I hope you like it

1. Once the program is running, look for the button to "Explore an
image".

2. Choose a letter for the virtual drive (I accepted the default).

3. PE Explorer comes up; it looks a lot like Windows Explorer.

4. Navigate to the file you want to restore and Right click - Copy it.

5. Navigate to the directory on C: (or whatever) you want to restore to.
Right click in a blank part of the file pane and press Paste.

I didn't try to find out if it is possible to open two ES Explorer
windows, which would make it even easier. I'll assign it as an exercise
for the reader

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

I was gong to post the way to restore a single file with Macrium's boot
disk, but Paul's post seemed to cover it, so I didn't, although his
description look a bit convoluted to me as well. Meanwhile my experience
is that it's simple, so I'll describe my way. I hope you like it

1. Once the program is running, look for the button to "Explore an
image".

2. Choose a letter for the virtual drive (I accepted the default).

3. PE Explorer comes up; it looks a lot like Windows Explorer.

4. Navigate to the file you want to restore and Right click - Copy it.

5. Navigate to the directory on C: (or whatever) you want to restore to.
Right click in a blank part of the file pane and press Paste.

I didn't try to find out if it is possible to open two ES Explorer
windows, which would make it even easier. I'll assign it as an exercise
for the reader

I omitted an important step, so please renumber my steps 2-5 above to
3-6, and put this in as the new step:

<NEW STEP>
2. From the choices Macrium presents, choose the drive and folder that
contains the image you want to explore.
</NEW STEP>

Also "gong" above was supposed to be "going".

 

[Paul]

I didn't try to find out if it is possible to open two ES Explorer
windows, which would make it even easier. I'll assign it as an exercise
for the reader

And I was hoping you'd find a way to do that, so my
"solution" wouldn't look quite so pitiful

Paul

 

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

Since I only do images (either full or incremental), I don't need to do[/QUOTE]
[]
When you say image, I take it you mean a file-by-file image, not a
sector-by-sector one: I can't imagine what an incremental
sector-by-sector image would mean.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

No matter how beautiful a girl is, no matter how much you might love her,
squeeze her tight enough and she'll fart - Joe Barron, quoted by son Fred ("My
Family" creator), RT, 15-21 March 2003

 

[SC Tom]

Since I only do images (either full or incremental), I don't need to do

[]
When you say image, I take it you mean a file-by-file image, not a
sector-by-sector one: I can't imagine what an incremental sector-by-sector
image would mean.[/QUOTE]

I use whatever the default is as far as the method. According to the manual,

"Disk/partition backups are different from file and folder backups. Acronis
True Image 2013 stores a
sector-by-sector snapshot of the disk or partition. This includes the
operating system, registry,
drivers, software applications, data files, and system areas hidden from the
user. This procedure is
called "creating a disk image," and the resulting backup is often called a
disk/partition image.

By default Acronis True Image 2013 stores only the hard disk sectors that
contain data.

A partition image includes all files and folders (including hidden and
system files), boot record, and
FAT (file allocation table). It also includes files in the root directory
and the zero track of the hard disk
with the master boot record (MBR).
A disk image includes images of all disk partitions and the zero track with
the MBR. "

It then goes on to explain:
"1) Full: contains all of the data at the moment of the backup creation. It
forms a base for further
incremental or differential backups. It can also be used as a standalone
backup.
2) Incremental: Only those files will be included which have been changed
since the LAST backup.
3) Differential: Only those files will be included which have been changed
since the last FULL backup."

it would seem that an incremental would also be sector-by-sector (even
though it's not checked by default in either method). I would assume (yeah,
I know what that means) that on an incremental, it would only back up the
sectors that have changed since the the last (reference) image. Since I only
do one Incremental between the full images, I guess really I'm doing a
Differential.

Not being a software engineer or program designer/writer, I can't say
exactly *how* it works, only that it *does* work, and very well for me

 

[Dave]

In message <[email protected]>, Nil

- Macrium Free seems pretty good, although it appears that you can only
restore files from an image while booted up in Windows, not from the
recovery media. I'm not sure that's a real problem. I've never been able
to make the Linux recovery disk work with this system.

It is a real problem if you hose your Windows system to the point it
won't boot, unless you're willing to rebuild everything from scratch, in
which case one wonders why you're backing up anyway. If you are and it's
only data you're wanting to back up, then of course copy by any means
will do.
[]
(This isn't a criticism - or endorsement - of Macrium, since I've read
of people getting its recovery system to work.)

IMO, no true backup system is much use until you've tried - and
succeeded - a reload from it, without booting the OS you're trying to
save a copy of.

If you don't know or aren't sure if you can restore a system using Macrium
free (or paid for of course), why post.
Macrium, like any other imaging software requires a boot method
independent of the installed OS. You make this prior to the first backup.
You should test that you can boot the machine using this media, I always
verify an image after making a backup, but it always does verify.
As far as the op's comment that you can only restore files from the
running OS, that leaves me a little confused. If you can't get the system
running just what file or files would you be restoring.
My feeling the op, as other sometimes do, somehow wants others to decide
what software he should use. Since he seems to have experimented with more
systems than I have, it's likely he is in a better position to comment on
the pluses and minuses of backup software. In the end, as long as you can
restore the image it probably doesn't matter what you used.

 

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <[email protected]>, Nil


It is a real problem if you hose your Windows system to the point it
won't boot, unless you're willing to rebuild everything from scratch, in

[]
If you don't know or aren't sure if you can restore a system using Macrium
free (or paid for of course), why post.

[]
Because ...

As far as the op's comment that you can only restore files from the
running OS, that leaves me a little confused. If you can't get the system

.... it left me confused too (-:.
[]

the pluses and minuses of backup software. In the end, as long as you can
restore the image it probably doesn't matter what you used.

Agreed, if you're talking about restoring a working OS (which is indeed
what _I_ tend to think of the word "backup" as meaning - anything else
is "copying" to me).

 

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

Since I only do images (either full or incremental), I don't need to do

[]
When you say image, I take it you mean a file-by-file image, not a
sector-by-sector one: I can't imagine what an incremental
sector-by-sector image would mean.

I use whatever the default is as far as the method. According to the manual,

"Disk/partition backups are different from file and folder backups.
Acronis True Image 2013 stores a
sector-by-sector snapshot of the disk or partition. This includes the
operating system, registry,
drivers, software applications, data files, and system areas hidden
from the user. This procedure is
called "creating a disk image," and the resulting backup is often
called a disk/partition image.[/QUOTE]

Makes sense.

By default Acronis True Image 2013 stores only the hard disk sectors
that contain data.

Interesting. I presume it keeps a note of where those sectors came from
(i. e. that they were sectors 0, 4, and 5, or whatever).

A partition image includes all files and folders (including hidden and
system files), boot record, and
FAT (file allocation table). It also includes files in the root
directory and the zero track of the hard disk
with the master boot record (MBR).
A disk image includes images of all disk partitions and the zero track
with the MBR. "

It then goes on to explain:
"1) Full: contains all of the data at the moment of the backup
creation. It forms a base for further
incremental or differential backups. It can also be used as a
standalone backup.
2) Incremental: Only those files will be included which have been
changed since the LAST backup.
3) Differential: Only those files will be included which have been
changed since the last FULL backup."

For 2) and 3), it has switched to talking about files rather than
sectors.

it would seem that an incremental would also be sector-by-sector (even

And a differential.

though it's not checked by default in either method). I would assume
(yeah, I know what that means) that on an incremental, it would only
back up the sectors that have changed since the the last (reference)
image. Since I only do one Incremental between the full images, I guess
really I'm doing a Differential.

(I'd agree that that's what you're doing, using the above definitions.)
I hadn't heard if incremental/differential _sector_ backups, but I guess
you're probably right.

Not being a software engineer or program designer/writer, I can't say
exactly *how* it works, only that it *does* work, and very well for me

[FWIW I can't see any advantage to sector-by-sector backups for ordinary
purposes, except where the OS requires that certain things need to be in
certain places (is W7 one of those?), though I can see their point when
using one OS to back up another.]

 

[Nil]

My feeling the op, as other sometimes do, somehow wants others to
decide what software he should use.

Your feeling is quite wrong.

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

Your feeling is quite wrong.

+1, and also, I always thought these newsgroups were available for - in
fact, welcomed - people who want help or advice.

I'm not sure what the value of a newsgroup would be if Dave had his way.
Maybe it would devolve into several choirs preaching to each other...