HP or Canon?

O

OM

Can someone tell me what they would recommend: HP or Canon?

As far as I know:

- HP because they have the best and most silent printers (in my
experience).

BUT...

- Canon have excellent printers as well AND have seperate ink tanks:
which most HP printers DON'T?

I was thinking of getting an Office Jet 6210 because it had an ADF.

Thanks.


OM
 
A

Andy

OM said:
Can someone tell me what they would recommend: HP or Canon?

As far as I know:

- HP because they have the best and most silent printers (in my
experience).

BUT...

- Canon have excellent printers as well AND have seperate ink tanks:
which most HP printers DON'T?

I was thinking of getting an Office Jet 6210 because it had an ADF.

Thanks.


OM

imo i chose
Hp for laser printing
Canon for inkjet printing
 
E

Edwin Pawlowski

OM said:
Can someone tell me what they would recommend: HP or Canon?

As far as I know:

- HP because they have the best and most silent printers (in my
experience).

BUT...

- Canon have excellent printers as well AND have seperate ink tanks:
which most HP printers DON'T?

I was thinking of getting an Office Jet 6210 because it had an ADF.

What is the intended use? Photos or office memo type work?
Canon for photos, HP for general purpose
 
P

Pat Coghlan

I don't know about Canon, but HP never got around to releasing XP
versions of drivers for older printers (like the 882C). As a result, I
lost the ability to do 2-sided printing. I guess this isn't an issue
for newer printers, but when Vista comes out next year HP's track
record is that they also won't release new drivers for existing printers.

I don't plan to print photos (at 29 cents or less with a service, why
would I?), but with 5 kids printing stuff daily my main concern is to be
able to purchase only the colours that go dry at $20/cartridge vs $50
for a colour cartridge. Therefore, I've just ordered an IP4200 to
replace our 882C which is almost due for new cartridges and also seems
to have worn out its rubber tractor wheels.
 
M

measekite

Pat said:
I don't know about Canon, but HP never got around to releasing XP
versions of drivers for older printers (like the 882C). As a result,
I lost the ability to do 2-sided printing. I guess this isn't an
issue for newer printers, but when Vista comes out next year HP's
track record is that they also won't release new drivers for existing
printers.

VISTA MAY NEED 64BIT DRIVERS. YOU MAY BE ABLE TO USE W2K DRIVERS IN XP
AS THEY ARE THE SAME ENGINE. IT CERTAINLY IS WORTH A TRY.
I don't plan to print photos (at 29 cents or less with a service, why
would I?),

HERE IS WHY

YOU CAN EDIT THEM IN PS TO GET THEM THE WAY YOU WANT. I KNOW YOU CAN
STILL DO THAT AND THEN EMAIL THEM TO A PHOTO LAB OR BRING THEM TO ONE
BUT I DO NOT THINK THEY WILL WANT TO PRINT ONE OR TWO.
but with 5 kids printing stuff daily my main concern is to be able to
purchase only the colours that go dry at $20/cartridge vs $50 for a
colour cartridge. Therefore, I've just ordered an IP4200 to replace
our 882C which is almost due for new cartridges and also seems to have
worn out its rubber tractor wheels.

IF YOU DO NOT NEED SPEED THAT IS A GOOD CHOICE BUT IF YOU DO THEN THE IP5200
 
M

measekite

DO NOT LISTEN TO MOST OF THE POSTER HERE.

THIS IS THE ANSWER:

BOTH HAVE DUPLEX MODE. THIS IS A REAL FANTASTIC FEATURE

HP ADVANTAGES

INTEGRATED PRINTHEAD IN CART . THIS IS AN ADVANTAGE ONLY IF YOU ARE AN
INFREQUENT USER. IF THE MACHINE CLOGS THEN JUST REPLACE THE INK CART.

BETTER DRAFT MODE FOR TEXT. ALMOST AS GOOD AS CANON'S STANDARD MODE NOT
QUITE. WILL SAVE YOU INK.

THESE ARE THE ONLY ADVANTAGE HP HAS OVER CANON. IF YOU GET AN HP GET
THE 84XX MODEL SO YOU DO NOT HAVE TO KEEP SWITCHING CARTS. THIS HAS 3
SLOTS FOR 3 CARTS WHILE THE CHEAPER MODELS HAVE 2 SLOTS FOR 3 CARTS. A
REAL PAININ THE ASS.


CANON ADVANTAGES;

SEPARATE INK TANKS - REPLACE WHAT YOU NEED

TWIN PAPER FEEDS. PAPER ON THE BOTTOM AND DIFFERENT SIZE PHOTO PAPER ON
THE TOP. THE OP FEED IS ALSO BETTER FOR PRINTING CARDS, INVITATIONS,
ENVELOPES ETC

BETTER PHOTO QUALITY

FASTER ESPECIALLY THE IP5200

WORKS BETTER WITH A GREATER VARIETY OF PAPER EXCEPT KODAK

IF YOU NEED AN ADF GET A CANON. BUT IT IS BETTER TO BUY SEPARATES.
CANON MAKES THE BEST PRINTER AND EPSON MAKES THE BEST SCANNER.
 
Z

zakezuke

Can someone tell me what they would recommend: HP or Canon?
As far as I know:
- HP because they have the best and most silent printers (in my
experience).
BUT...
- Canon have excellent printers as well AND have seperate ink tanks:
which most HP printers DON'T?
I was thinking of getting an Office Jet 6210 because it had an ADF.

HP offers seperate tanks as well on newer models, but I don't know of
one with an ADF that takes the #02 tanks.

I can speak about owning the mp760, and the mp780 to some degree. The
mp780 comes with fax, but no real advanced features other than you can
fax out from your PC, no real fax in from the scanner unit. The
springboard software from your PC proccesses multi-pages though
ez-photoprint, so unless you use the buttons on the printer, it's a
little annoying to do just a copy. I consider Canon to be young on the
multifuctional front. But the text output on the mp760/mp780 is
supurb, photos are great, and the cost per page reasonable. You can
still buy the mp780 for $220ish on amazon.com, but expect $300 for
their mp800 (no fax, no feeder)

The new mp830 (fax feeder) I know less about as i've never met one, and
I know very little about the mp800 (nofax). Cost per page for text is
still pretty reasonable, though slightly higher than prior generation
models due to chiped tanks with no obvious improvement.

While the mp800 comes in a wirelesss/network model, the mp830 near as I
can tell does not. I'm unaware if you can share the mp780 or mp830 on
a network and share the fax ability. Perhaps yes, perhaps no. Hard to
say.

HP on the other hand, this is sort of their bag. They come with a
software suite while a tad bloated is a full blown solution, rather
than canon which pretty much offers just a printer, scanner, and fax
all in one package. While it's true most of the models which offer fax
and a doc feeder, if not all, use multi color tanks and head on the
cartridge, what you get with these suckers is volume... so there is
less opening of the cover. Not a big deal for some, but worth looking
at. HP does offer network models which often permit several pcs to fax
out from the same line, or most nifty share the scanner... something
which you could do in software but NOT a feature Windows comes with out
of the box, though it could if they wanted to.

The last HP I owned was the PSC 950. Fine machine... did it's job and
did it well. Not as cheap to operate as the prior generation that took
the HP45a cartridge, but that was my fault for not looking at the page
volume. The only reason I replaced it was the scanner started to
become flacky, as it turns out it was a software glitch and not the
usual discoloration of the alignment strip that I would expect, and the
canon multi-fuctions with the right tweeking print on CDs, not to speak
of refilling and cheap compatables.

Oddly enough, some of those tri-color tanks are not too shabby in the
terms of cost per page. Sure you always waste ink, typicaly cyan and
magenta, but you get a hell of alot of yellow out of them before you
chuck it. I dont' honestly know if i'd notice a difference between the
HP #97 cartridge and buying a set of three canon tanks.
 
M

Mapanari

Can someone tell me what they would recommend: HP or Canon?

As far as I know:

- HP because they have the best and most silent printers (in my
experience).

BUT...

- Canon have excellent printers as well AND have seperate ink tanks:
which most HP printers DON'T?

I was thinking of getting an Office Jet 6210 because it had an ADF.

Thanks.


OM

HP is taking a giant hit coming up against the new lines of iP canon
printes.

The canon carts are cheaper, easier to refill and print better pictures.

HP doesn't make a printer that you can print on cd/dvdrs, canon's can
easily be converted to cd printing for about $20 and 10 minutes of work.

HP is having massive sales for the last 6 months becuase they're losing
money and market share to Canon, and so canon doesn't need to massivily cut
prices and give away printers anymore.

HP depends, the whole company, depends upon HP cart sales to keep it alive.
No other section of HP empire makes any money except for their overpriced
and dishonest cart sales.

HP will **** you by including a little tiny 1/2 filled cart with their
printers. It will run out in a week and you'll be forced to go right out
and buy a brand new color one for about $50.
Canon's 3-6 ink cart sets can only cost $2.50-$6 each and you only
replace the ones you need. Besides, refilling them is as simple is
drilling a teeny tiny hole in the to plastic with the smallest drill bit
you can find, filling it with generic ink with a needle, then taping the
hole over with a small piece of black plastic electrical tape.

Canon's iP series printers are the top rated Consumer Report Magazine
printers.


Conclusion:

HP and canon are fine printers, but the the obvious nod goes to Canon.


Never, ever, never ever buy a Lexmark piece of Dell shit printer.

( disclaimer: I have owned many printers of all these brands. I've sold
them in stores before. I've provided them for end users in business and
private sales, but I do not work for any printing or cart manu or ever had)

--
b{-_-}d

I'm listening!

---Mapanari---
 
M

Mapanari

@news20.bellglobal.com:

Therefore, I've just ordered an IP4200 to
replace our 882C which is almost due for new cartridges and also seems
to have worn out its rubber tractor wheels.


You're going to love your new printer.

Make sure you go on ebay and buy a cd printing tray for it also, and go
every week to Fry's and get their 20 pack of .99c photo paper.
It works great in the Canon and produces borderless prints better than
store bought!

Get a refill kit and buy one new set of carts online for about $3.00 each,
then when one cart goes empty, simply take the new or refilled one, that
you keep in an airtight ziplock baggie and replace it.

I find using the refill bottle that each have their own syringe needle
built in the easist to use.

www.ims-ink.com
example: model #07240 (yellow)

You'll never run out of carts that way.

About 90% cheaper than HP also!
Tastes bad! More filling!

--
b{-_-}d

I'm listening!

---Mapanari---
 
M

measekite

one step worse than generic prefilled carts is the enduring mess and
nuisance of refilling carts. then you are doing a lot of work to clog
your printer. too bad mfg ink is so expensive but the printers are much
cheaper than they used to be. about a third less for a very decent one.
 
M

measekite

if you print mostly business documents and do not print very much than
the hp with the integrated print head ink cart is best cause if you clog
it then just replace the cart and you get a new printhead.

if you print more canon is better since it is faster and produces better
photos.
 
Z

zakezuke

Mapanari said:
HP is taking a giant hit coming up against the new lines of iP canon
printes.

The canon carts are cheaper, easier to refill and print better pictures.

HP doesn't make a printer that you can print on cd/dvdrs, canon's can
easily be converted to cd printing for about $20 and 10 minutes of work.

HP is having massive sales for the last 6 months becuase they're losing
money and market share to Canon, and so canon doesn't need to massivily cut
prices and give away printers anymore.

HP depends, the whole company, depends upon HP cart sales to keep it alive.
No other section of HP empire makes any money except for their overpriced
and dishonest cart sales.

HP will **** you by including a little tiny 1/2 filled cart with their
printers. It will run out in a week and you'll be forced to go right out
and buy a brand new color one for about $50.
Canon's 3-6 ink cart sets can only cost $2.50-$6 each and you only
replace the ones you need. Besides, refilling them is as simple is
drilling a teeny tiny hole in the to plastic with the smallest drill bit
you can find, filling it with generic ink with a needle, then taping the
hole over with a small piece of black plastic electrical tape.
Conclusion:

HP and canon are fine printers, but the the obvious nod goes to Canon.


I don't know about HP comming with 1/2 filled cartridges, you could be
right they do tend to offer regular sized and full sized tanks. As far
as being cheaper than canon, I crunched the numbers a few time and it
would seem that the hp 8250 is at the very least on par with canon
ip6600D, at least within the ball park.

The new canons you can't not honestly say refilling them is as easy due
to the chips, nor do I honestly know the physical ease of refilling a
hp02 tank. I will however say electrical tape bad, though electrical
tape with a dab of epoxy good. Perhaps you had luck with electrical
tape, I however have not.

But I will agree that CD printing is a nifty power feature, one which
did make me switch away from HP. However if my power application was
faxing odds are the HP would win out.
 
B

Burt

Mapanari said:
@news20.bellglobal.com:

Therefore, I've just ordered an IP4200 to


You're going to love your new printer.

Make sure you go on ebay and buy a cd printing tray for it also, and go
every week to Fry's and get their 20 pack of .99c photo paper.
It works great in the Canon and produces borderless prints better than
store bought!

Get a refill kit and buy one new set of carts online for about $3.00 each,
then when one cart goes empty, simply take the new or refilled one, that
you keep in an airtight ziplock baggie and replace it.

I find using the refill bottle that each have their own syringe needle
built in the easist to use.

www.ims-ink.com
example: model #07240 (yellow)
I hate to negate part of this post, but there are currently no aftermarket
carts for the ip4200. In addition, the IMS inks are touted as being generic
or universal and they are definitely not the best quality inks to feed your
printer. If you wish to refill there are a few vendors that have recently
started selling aftermarket bulk inks for the newest pixmas. The inks
available for the previous models, of which the ip4000 is one, are slightly
different from the newest ones. If you want to refill your carts be sure
you purchase inks that are specifically compatable with the ip4200. Since I
don't have one of the newest pixmas I haven't looked for the vendors that
have the inks for your printer. I suspect that compatable carts and inks
will soon be available, but for now you would need to purchase a new set of
OEM Canon carts to have a backup set. For refilling technique, sealing of
the fill hole, etc,go to the Nifty Stuff forum. Participants on that forum
have experimented with several types of tape and have had leaking carts if
using only tape as a seal.
http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/
 
Z

zakezuke

I hate to negate part of this post, but there are currently no aftermarket
carts for the ip4200. In addition, the IMS inks are touted as being generic
or universal and they are definitely not the best quality inks to feed your
printer.

I hate to negate this part, but the bottles are spiffy. The ink is
not. For $20ish you get what is it, 7 bottles with blunt needles.
It's a pretty penny for just bottles, but they are nice bottles. The
alternative is mail ordering bottles which i'm sure would be a couple
of bucks each at least, and not have the nice color coated tips.
 
F

Fenrir Enterprises

right they do tend to offer regular sized and full sized tanks. As far
as being cheaper than canon, I crunched the numbers a few time and it
would seem that the hp 8250 is at the very least on par with canon
ip6600D, at least within the ball park.

I don't care if it's called 'regular' and 'large' tanks, the 'regular'
tank is usually so tiny that it would be a lie to call it anything but
a half-size or starter cartridge. It used to be that you couldn't even
/buy/ cartridges that size, they only came with the printer (except
for those few weird HP 'photo packages' that have a half-filled '#
series' cartridge and stack of paper, with a little note in the corner
that it's 'not the same as the standard # cartridge') .

The problem with the newest line of HPs is that they /only/ take the
tiny cartridges. None of the all-in-ones under $300 take the or 96/97
standard tanks. None of the standard deskjets under $150 take the
56/57 tanks, though there is one or two photosmarts around $100 that
take them. They all take either the 21/22 or the 92/93 tanks. I had
previously said that the All-In-One Fax machine that has a sheetfed
scanner instead of a flatbed still took the 56/57s, but apparently
these just took a little longer for HP to take off the shelves - there
is now a new model that only takes 21/22 as well.

Last series Deskjets : 56 black - 19 ml of ink; 57 color - 14 ml of
ink

This series: 21 black - 5 ml of ink; 22 color - 5 ml of ink

Last series of All-In-Ones: 96 black - 21 ml of ink; 97 color - 14 ml
of ink

This series: 92 black - 5 ml of ink, 93 color - 5 ml of ink

So the black tanks for the newest series of printers are about 1/4 of
the size of last year's models, and the color tanks are 1/3 the size.
The cartridges are not significantly cheaper (about $10 less). Even
with the supposed lower ink usage, 1.66 ml per color isn't going to
last a week unless you only make one print per day. And it's not as if
the other cartridges are being phased out in favor of newer
technology, as the more expensive HP printers take the exact same
numbers as the last series. Not surprising that HP's ink division is
raking in so much cash right now.

Right now I'm looking for a chart of Lexmark and Brother cartridge ml
contents, because frankly, unless you're going to spend over $200 on a
printer, HP is far, far too expensive to run. I usually try to steer
people towards Canon printers now, but keep hearing 'Oh, but this
Brother/Lexmark is the exact same price, and it copies/faxes too!', so
I'm trying to find out whether these brands also have microscopic ink
cartridges or not. The fact that they don't put the ml content on
their packaging is a bad indicator to start with.

---

http://www.FenrirOnline.com

Computer services, custom metal etching,
arts, crafts, and much more.
 
B

Burt

zakezuke said:
I hate to negate this part, but the bottles are spiffy. The ink is
not. For $20ish you get what is it, 7 bottles with blunt needles.
It's a pretty penny for just bottles, but they are nice bottles. The
alternative is mail ordering bottles which i'm sure would be a couple
of bucks each at least, and not have the nice color coated tips.

Zakezuke - check these out. I'm using them and they are very good. You can
buy them with needles and needle caps fromt this firm. No more cleaning
syringes. around a buck apiece in packs of ten plus nominal shipping. I
bought the 2 oz. bottles as I buy 2 oz each of black, cyan, and magenta and
4 oz. of PM, PC, and yellow.
http://heinc.com/kahnetics/squeezebottles.html
 
Z

zakezuke

The problem with the newest line of HPs is that they /only/ take the
tiny cartridges. None of the all-in-ones under $300 take the or 96/97
standard tanks. None of the standard deskjets under $150 take the
56/57 tanks, though there is one or two photosmarts around $100 that
take them. They all take either the 21/22 or the 92/93 tanks. I had
previously said that the All-In-One Fax machine that has a sheetfed
scanner instead of a flatbed still took the 56/57s, but apparently
these just took a little longer for HP to take off the shelves - there
is now a new model that only takes 21/22 as well.

Yes, this can be annoying, but canon has "always" had a big tank class
and a thimble tank class. Thimble tanks were not so bad when they
offered a big black, or tiny colors, but the big black cartridge was
abandoned in favor of the current size of black, which is a reasonable
size don't get me wrong. Now thimble tanks have been abandoned in
favor of the head on the cartridge. I'll have to check my facts on
this, but they have a pgi-41 and a pgi-51... different volumes, going
to different printers, but same ink. The cheaper AIOs take these.
The fact that they don't put the ml content on their packaging is a bad indicator to
start with.

Um... I don't know about the outside package, but I remember the old
45a having it's ML listed on the cartridge... Actually I do have some
hp tanks come to think about it. Here we are... it's for my old psc
950, at least 2 years old, but this #78 says quite clearly 19ml. Newer
tanks offer a link to http://www.hp.com/pageyield/ which lists all the
approperate info.. ok I thought it did.. I must have gotten a list of
the #02 volume from elsewhere.

Ah here we are http://www.shopping.hp.com/
Let me see black #02 ah ok, 10ml.
How about the #78... Yep 19ml.
The old #45... yep 42ml

I'll have to double check current packaging, but it's been my experence
that HP lists the volume on the box.
This series: 92 black - 5 ml of ink, 93 color - 5 ml of ink

Yes, that's pretty low... I wouldn't buy that one. 10ml isn't too bad
on a current generation HP, but keep in mind that the yield you'd
expect from a old 45 is about the same as the yield you'd expect from
two 10ml #02s.
 
B

Burt

Fenrir Enterprises said:
I don't care if it's called 'regular' and 'large' tanks, the 'regular'
tank is usually so tiny that it would be a lie to call it anything but
a half-size or starter cartridge. It used to be that you couldn't even
/buy/ cartridges that size, they only came with the printer (except
for those few weird HP 'photo packages' that have a half-filled '#
series' cartridge and stack of paper, with a little note in the corner
that it's 'not the same as the standard # cartridge') .

The problem with the newest line of HPs is that they /only/ take the
tiny cartridges. None of the all-in-ones under $300 take the or 96/97
standard tanks. None of the standard deskjets under $150 take the
56/57 tanks, though there is one or two photosmarts around $100 that
take them. They all take either the 21/22 or the 92/93 tanks. I had
previously said that the All-In-One Fax machine that has a sheetfed
scanner instead of a flatbed still took the 56/57s, but apparently
these just took a little longer for HP to take off the shelves - there
is now a new model that only takes 21/22 as well.

Last series Deskjets : 56 black - 19 ml of ink; 57 color - 14 ml of
ink

This series: 21 black - 5 ml of ink; 22 color - 5 ml of ink

Last series of All-In-Ones: 96 black - 21 ml of ink; 97 color - 14 ml
of ink

This series: 92 black - 5 ml of ink, 93 color - 5 ml of ink

So the black tanks for the newest series of printers are about 1/4 of
the size of last year's models, and the color tanks are 1/3 the size.
The cartridges are not significantly cheaper (about $10 less). Even
with the supposed lower ink usage, 1.66 ml per color isn't going to
last a week unless you only make one print per day. And it's not as if
the other cartridges are being phased out in favor of newer
technology, as the more expensive HP printers take the exact same
numbers as the last series. Not surprising that HP's ink division is
raking in so much cash right now.

Right now I'm looking for a chart of Lexmark and Brother cartridge ml
contents, because frankly, unless you're going to spend over $200 on a
printer, HP is far, far too expensive to run. I usually try to steer
people towards Canon printers now, but keep hearing 'Oh, but this
Brother/Lexmark is the exact same price, and it copies/faxes too!', so
I'm trying to find out whether these brands also have microscopic ink
cartridges or not. The fact that they don't put the ml content on
their packaging is a bad indicator to start with.

---
From what I've read, HP has improved their efficience in use of ink in some
of their newest carts. Instead of dumping ink in a cleaning cycle, they
bring it back into the cart so it can be used. I'll still stay with my
prechipped canon printers for refilling, however.
 
A

andmalc

Mapanari wrote:
[snip]
HP will **** you by including a little tiny 1/2 filled cart with their
printers. It will run out in a week and you'll be forced to go right out
and buy a brand new color one for about $50.

It's not half filled; there's no deception here - they're just smaller,
starter cartridges with different model numbers that you get free with
your printer.

Where do you get this $50 number from? The #94 & #98 are the current
mid-size black carts and they both cost $20. The #95 is the current
mid-size tri-colour and it costs $25. The #97 large tri-colour is the
most expensive cartridge you can buy and it costs $35. These prices
are from hpshopping.com.
 

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