How to modify the junk mail rules

[Guest]

Outlook 2003 SP2

I understand that Outlook will run its junk mail rules first then run
user-created rules. However, if an email is "caught" by the junk mail rules
it is simply placed in the junk mail folder and then it stops processing.

How can I modify the hidden junk mail rules to continue processing?

That way, the junk that ends up in my junk mail folder can be filtered again
by my own rules and permanently deleted.

I know that my rules work because when I take the effort to "run rules
now..." the offenders are deleted. It's just that my rules never have a shot
at the email.

Any ideas? Thanks

 

[Roady [MVP]]

You can't. The order of when rules and junk e-mail filtering occurs were
changed in SP1. Think of the reverse effect; successfully filtered messages
will be placed back in your Inbox by rules.

--
Robert Sparnaaij [MVP-Outlook]
Coauthor, Configuring Microsoft Outlook 2003


-----
Outlook 2003 SP2

I understand that Outlook will run its junk mail rules first then run
user-created rules. However, if an email is "caught" by the junk mail rules
it is simply placed in the junk mail folder and then it stops processing.

How can I modify the hidden junk mail rules to continue processing?

That way, the junk that ends up in my junk mail folder can be filtered again
by my own rules and permanently deleted.

I know that my rules work because when I take the effort to "run rules
now..." the offenders are deleted. It's just that my rules never have a
shot
at the email.

Any ideas? Thanks

 

[Brian Tillman]

How can I modify the hidden junk mail rules to continue processing?

That way, the junk that ends up in my junk mail folder can be
filtered again by my own rules and permanently deleted.

Why not change the action of the junk mail filter to be to permanently
delete?

 

[Guest]

Roady --

I can live with the order of execution. But let me clarify the issue I have.

1) Outlook's junk mail filter does its job and drops a load of what it
figures are spam into my junk email folder.

2) But it's not infallable -- so I end up with some "good" emails marked as
junk (ie things like replies from customer support sites etc that I have
never had the opportunity to mark as safe senders because I didn't know their
email address). These emails I'd like to drag to my inbox and flag the
sender as safe -- wouldn't want them to be permanently deleted.

3) And I also end up with some egregious spam that was correctly dropped
into my junk email folder. They initially need to go there (vs the inbox) so
that links and download of images are disabled, for the obvious reasons. But
I generally have to go in and kill them several times a day.

4) I've written a handful of rules that do effectively remove those spam
messages that have an identifiable fingerprint or pattern -- but my rules
never get executed because the junk mail rules *apparently* end with "stop
processing" or maybe Outlook just figures that there's no need to run my
rules now that it has done its job -- in either case, my rules are not fired
when messages fall into the junk mail folder. If I manually run the rules,
the offending emails are permanently deleted, but this seems to defeat the
purpose of having a rule in the first place. If I have to manually intervene
I may as well just delete them click-click-click instead.

5) So my question is -- how can I force my rules to run automatically every
time mail arrives in the junk mail folder.

(Whew

 

[Guest]

Thanks Brian --

See the above reply to Roady. I did consider that, but then good emails
that Outlook erroroneously filters as junk mail would be permanently deleted
as well.

It seems there's not a good middle ground provided by Outlook...

 

[Roady [MVP]]

Well as I said before; you can't. If it did the Junk E-mail filter would do
a real poor job as it could end up filtering it first and then rules take it
out again and put actual spam in your mail folders. Note that 2) is a
one-time only process. Also about 3); why several times a day? It kind of
defeats having a Junk E-mail folder.

Consider enabling AutoArchive for that folder. Set it to delete the junk
e-mail older than x (I suggest 3) days. This way you automatically get rid
of your Junk E-mail and you still have a change to monitor it and filter out
the good e-mails.

Note that AutoArchive works on the modified date. So if you leave for a
holiday and come back after two weeks and retrieve all your new e-mails the
Junk E-mail you received on day 1, 2, 3, etc... of your absense will only be
deleted 3 days after your return. It's not like you can't monitor those then
anymore ;-)

--
Robert Sparnaaij [MVP-Outlook]
Coauthor, Configuring Microsoft Outlook 2003


-----
Roady --

I can live with the order of execution. But let me clarify the issue I
have.

1) Outlook's junk mail filter does its job and drops a load of what it
figures are spam into my junk email folder.

2) But it's not infallable -- so I end up with some "good" emails marked as
junk (ie things like replies from customer support sites etc that I have
never had the opportunity to mark as safe senders because I didn't know
their
email address). These emails I'd like to drag to my inbox and flag the
sender as safe -- wouldn't want them to be permanently deleted.

3) And I also end up with some egregious spam that was correctly dropped
into my junk email folder. They initially need to go there (vs the inbox)
so
that links and download of images are disabled, for the obvious reasons.
But
I generally have to go in and kill them several times a day.

4) I've written a handful of rules that do effectively remove those spam
messages that have an identifiable fingerprint or pattern -- but my rules
never get executed because the junk mail rules *apparently* end with "stop
processing" or maybe Outlook just figures that there's no need to run my
rules now that it has done its job -- in either case, my rules are not fired
when messages fall into the junk mail folder. If I manually run the rules,
the offending emails are permanently deleted, but this seems to defeat the
purpose of having a rule in the first place. If I have to manually
intervene
I may as well just delete them click-click-click instead.

5) So my question is -- how can I force my rules to run automatically every
time mail arrives in the junk mail folder.

(Whew
--
Steve

You can't. The order of when rules and junk e-mail filtering occurs were
changed in SP1. Think of the reverse effect; successfully filtered
messages
will be placed back in your Inbox by rules.

--
Robert Sparnaaij [MVP-Outlook]
Coauthor, Configuring Microsoft Outlook 2003


-----
Outlook 2003 SP2

I understand that Outlook will run its junk mail rules first then run
user-created rules. However, if an email is "caught" by the junk mail
rules
it is simply placed in the junk mail folder and then it stops processing.

How can I modify the hidden junk mail rules to continue processing?

That way, the junk that ends up in my junk mail folder can be filtered
again
by my own rules and permanently deleted.

I know that my rules work because when I take the effort to "run rules
now..." the offenders are deleted. It's just that my rules never have a
shot
at the email.

Any ideas? Thanks

 

[Guest]

Thanks for the thoughtful reply...

None of my rules take mail out of the junk mail folder and put them back
into my inbox -- I agree that would be pretty ridiculous. But the Outlook
junk mail filter does such a sketchy job of pegging real junk that it
frequently leaves "good" emails in the junk folder, which is why I end up
checking it several times a day. Then when I'm in the folder there they are
-- the same old readily-identifiable (by my rules) spam messages. If my
rules could run after Outlook's junk mail filter, it would solve the problem.

But I guess I'm hoping against hope that Microsoft would actually give me
some method to deal with this. (Note from other posts that other users have
the same issues.)

All I would really like to do is modify the built-in junk mail filter to
make it more responsive to my needs. Too much to ask, I guess...

--
Steve - Programmer and Systems Developer since 1965

Well as I said before; you can't. If it did the Junk E-mail filter would do
a real poor job as it could end up filtering it first and then rules take it
out again and put actual spam in your mail folders. Note that 2) is a
one-time only process. Also about 3); why several times a day? It kind of
defeats having a Junk E-mail folder.

Consider enabling AutoArchive for that folder. Set it to delete the junk
e-mail older than x (I suggest 3) days. This way you automatically get rid
of your Junk E-mail and you still have a change to monitor it and filter out
the good e-mails.

Note that AutoArchive works on the modified date. So if you leave for a
holiday and come back after two weeks and retrieve all your new e-mails the
Junk E-mail you received on day 1, 2, 3, etc... of your absense will only be
deleted 3 days after your return. It's not like you can't monitor those then
anymore ;-)

--
Robert Sparnaaij [MVP-Outlook]
Coauthor, Configuring Microsoft Outlook 2003


-----
Roady --

I can live with the order of execution. But let me clarify the issue I
have.

1) Outlook's junk mail filter does its job and drops a load of what it
figures are spam into my junk email folder.

2) But it's not infallable -- so I end up with some "good" emails marked as
junk (ie things like replies from customer support sites etc that I have
never had the opportunity to mark as safe senders because I didn't know
their
email address). These emails I'd like to drag to my inbox and flag the
sender as safe -- wouldn't want them to be permanently deleted.

3) And I also end up with some egregious spam that was correctly dropped
into my junk email folder. They initially need to go there (vs the inbox)
so
that links and download of images are disabled, for the obvious reasons.
But
I generally have to go in and kill them several times a day.

4) I've written a handful of rules that do effectively remove those spam
messages that have an identifiable fingerprint or pattern -- but my rules
never get executed because the junk mail rules *apparently* end with "stop
processing" or maybe Outlook just figures that there's no need to run my
rules now that it has done its job -- in either case, my rules are not fired
when messages fall into the junk mail folder. If I manually run the rules,
the offending emails are permanently deleted, but this seems to defeat the
purpose of having a rule in the first place. If I have to manually
intervene
I may as well just delete them click-click-click instead.

5) So my question is -- how can I force my rules to run automatically every
time mail arrives in the junk mail folder.

(Whew
--
Steve

You can't. The order of when rules and junk e-mail filtering occurs were
changed in SP1. Think of the reverse effect; successfully filtered
messages
will be placed back in your Inbox by rules.

--
Robert Sparnaaij [MVP-Outlook]
Coauthor, Configuring Microsoft Outlook 2003
http://www.howto-outlook.com/
Outlook FAQ, HowTo, Downloads, Add-Ins and more

-----
Outlook 2003 SP2

I understand that Outlook will run its junk mail rules first then run
user-created rules. However, if an email is "caught" by the junk mail
rules
it is simply placed in the junk mail folder and then it stops processing.

How can I modify the hidden junk mail rules to continue processing?

That way, the junk that ends up in my junk mail folder can be filtered
again
by my own rules and permanently deleted.

I know that my rules work because when I take the effort to "run rules
now..." the offenders are deleted. It's just that my rules never have a
shot
at the email.

Any ideas? Thanks

 

[Brian Tillman]

If my rules could run after Outlook's junk
mail filter, it would solve the problem.

But I guess I'm hoping against hope that Microsoft would actually
give me some method to deal with this. (Note from other posts that
other users have the same issues.)

Actually, prior to SP1, your rules would have run before the Junk E-mail
filter. So many people complained that Microsoft changed it. However,
instead of simply adding an option to allow the user to select the old
order, they made the change permanent, as is their wont. They seem to
prefer "either-or" instead of "let the user decide".

 

[Roady [MVP]]

It is a descision on how complex you want to make the filtering tools.
Before the change the troubleshooting was quite complex and I got loads of
support tickets that the Junk E-mail Filter wasn't working (rules placed the
messages back) and people started to create rules again to put the mails
back in the Junk E-mail Filter. So a Junk E-mail was being caught and
correctly placed in the Junk E-mail Folder, then a certain rule applied to
it a placed it in another folder and then another rule applied and created a
duplicate item in the Junk E-mail Folder. It was a true mess! Both filters
did their work as it should but the end-user was really confused resulting
in support personel having to make a lot of complex rules. IMO the current
implementation is much more eassier to understand.

--
Robert Sparnaaij [MVP-Outlook]
Coauthor, Configuring Microsoft Outlook 2003


-----

If my rules could run after Outlook's junk
mail filter, it would solve the problem.

But I guess I'm hoping against hope that Microsoft would actually
give me some method to deal with this. (Note from other posts that
other users have the same issues.)

Actually, prior to SP1, your rules would have run before the Junk E-mail
filter. So many people complained that Microsoft changed it. However,
instead of simply adding an option to allow the user to select the old
order, they made the change permanent, as is their wont. They seem to
prefer "either-or" instead of "let the user decide".

 

[Brian Tillman]

It is a descision on how complex you want to make the filtering tools.
Before the change the troubleshooting was quite complex and I got
loads of support tickets that the Junk E-mail Filter wasn't working
(rules placed the messages back) and people started to create rules
again to put the mails back in the Junk E-mail Filter. So a Junk
E-mail was being caught and correctly placed in the Junk E-mail
Folder, then a certain rule applied to it a placed it in another
folder and then another rule applied and created a duplicate item in
the Junk E-mail Folder. It was a true mess! Both filters did their
work as it should but the end-user was really confused resulting in
support personel having to make a lot of complex rules. IMO the
current implementation is much more eassier to understand.

In this particular instance, you may be correct, but that doesn't change the
general philosophy of what I say, and that's that Microsoft tends to take an
"either one way or the other" approach rather than a "let the user decide
for himself" approach.

 

[Roady [MVP]]

Oh, I agree on that one. In some cases having the choice makes much more
sense indeed then just change it. I support the thought behind it of having
a clean interface and reducing complexity but in some cases I really wished
they had put in a regedit option for power users..

--
Robert Sparnaaij [MVP-Outlook]
Coauthor, Configuring Microsoft Outlook 2003


-----

It is a descision on how complex you want to make the filtering tools.
Before the change the troubleshooting was quite complex and I got
loads of support tickets that the Junk E-mail Filter wasn't working
(rules placed the messages back) and people started to create rules
again to put the mails back in the Junk E-mail Filter. So a Junk
E-mail was being caught and correctly placed in the Junk E-mail
Folder, then a certain rule applied to it a placed it in another
folder and then another rule applied and created a duplicate item in
the Junk E-mail Folder. It was a true mess! Both filters did their
work as it should but the end-user was really confused resulting in
support personel having to make a lot of complex rules. IMO the
current implementation is much more eassier to understand.

In this particular instance, you may be correct, but that doesn't change the
general philosophy of what I say, and that's that Microsoft tends to take an
"either one way or the other" approach rather than a "let the user decide
for himself" approach.