How do I print part of an image to fill the sheet of paper.

[micky]

I've gotten pretty good at using MSPaint and Windows Picture and Fax
Viewer, and Picasa.

But this time, I only wanted to print a portion of the .tif file I had
downloaded.

How do I zoom in on a portion of an image (possibly cut and paste that
portion to another file) and print the portion so that it fills the
sheet of paper?

Would it help to convert the .tif to something else?

Thanks.


Details.
Using MSPaint, I enlarged my .tif file a lot, put a box around the
part I wanted, copied it, and pasted it into a blank .tif file. Then
I used a red-colored line to overdraw my property line, and blue and
green lines to overdraw each of my neighbors' property lines. So far
so good!

Now I want to print the whole thing, I clicked Print and fortunately
for me I saw more than one page being formatted. I stopped it all
before it wasted by precious ink. I checked using Print Preview, and
it was going to print 36 pages, only the first 2 of which would not be
blank!

But I wanted the image all on one page. So I did Image, Rotate 90^,
and then the screen was blank! I moved the horizontal and vertical
scroll things to the other end of the screen, but never saw anything, so
I used Print Preview again. This time the image was broken up into 4 or
more pieces, mixed in among a lot of blank pages totaling 36 again!!

So I called up my saved image with Win Picture and Fax Viewer. It
looked good. That program has no Print Preview, so I clicked Print, and
that started the Photo Printing Wizard which might have come with my new
Epson printer. It has an automatic preview function, and it showed my
image in its original size, stuck in a small corner of the image of the
page.

Then I used PrntScrn and Wordpad and pasted it into a blank Wordpad
document. It looks good but there is too much, the bottom of the
Picture Viewer screen, and the top giving the file name, (thus looking
much less like a copy of the plat), and the bottom of the Windows
screen,

Then I dl'd Picasa, and it didn't even have zoom afaict. And the
picture was little, hiding in the corner of a blank page.

I might even settle for printing the thing before adding the red, green,
and blue lines, and try to add them by hand without smearing the ink,
but I don't know how to do that either.

 

[Paul in Houston TX]

I've gotten pretty good at using MSPaint and Windows Picture and Fax
Viewer, and Picasa.

But this time, I only wanted to print a portion of the .tif file I had
downloaded.

How do I zoom in on a portion of an image (possibly cut and paste that
portion to another file) and print the portion so that it fills the
sheet of paper?

I don't use any of those programs since Irfan takes the place
of all of them.
Irfan, can crop the pic then print.
It can also resize.

 

[VanguardLH]

I've gotten pretty good at using MSPaint and Windows Picture and Fax
Viewer, and Picasa.

But this time, I only wanted to print a portion of the .tif file I had
downloaded.

How do I zoom in on a portion of an image (possibly cut and paste that
portion to another file) and print the portion so that it fills the
sheet of paper?

Would it help to convert the .tif to something else?

Thanks.

Details.
Using MSPaint, I enlarged my .tif file a lot, put a box around the
part I wanted, copied it, and pasted it into a blank .tif file. Then
I used a red-colored line to overdraw my property line, and blue and
green lines to overdraw each of my neighbors' property lines. So far
so good!

Now I want to print the whole thing, I clicked Print and fortunately
for me I saw more than one page being formatted. I stopped it all
before it wasted by precious ink. I checked using Print Preview, and
it was going to print 36 pages, only the first 2 of which would not be
blank!

But I wanted the image all on one page. So I did Image, Rotate 90^,
and then the screen was blank! I moved the horizontal and vertical
scroll things to the other end of the screen, but never saw anything, so
I used Print Preview again. This time the image was broken up into 4 or
more pieces, mixed in among a lot of blank pages totaling 36 again!!

So I called up my saved image with Win Picture and Fax Viewer. It
looked good. That program has no Print Preview, so I clicked Print, and
that started the Photo Printing Wizard which might have come with my new
Epson printer. It has an automatic preview function, and it showed my
image in its original size, stuck in a small corner of the image of the
page.

Then I used PrntScrn and Wordpad and pasted it into a blank Wordpad
document. It looks good but there is too much, the bottom of the
Picture Viewer screen, and the top giving the file name, (thus looking
much less like a copy of the plat), and the bottom of the Windows
screen,

Then I dl'd Picasa, and it didn't even have zoom afaict. And the
picture was little, hiding in the corner of a blank page.

I might even settle for printing the thing before adding the red, green,
and blue lines, and try to add them by hand without smearing the ink,
but I don't know how to do that either.

You already know the cut-n-paste operation to create a new image file
that contains just the selected portion of the original image. Open old
file, select content, copy it, open new blank doc, paste clip, and save.

For curiosity, after loading the image file into MS Paint, use File ->
Properties to check the size. Change the size from pixels to inches to
see how big is the picture (versus the size of whatever paper size you
want to print a hardcopy). If that shows a pic size greate than your
paper size then in the File -> Print -> Page Setup dialog is a setting
for "Fit to". Is it set to 1x1 pages?

I don't have many large pics. I picked one that said it was 17+ x 13+
in size (don't remember the decimal portion). I used Page Setup to make
sure it was set to "Fit to: 1 by 1" (1 page). I printed to a virtual
printer (PDF printer) and opened the PDF which was set to Page view.
The pic occupied only 1 page.

The PDF printer that I use (BullZip PDF Printer) lets you pick other
file formats to "print" the document. So with the 17"x13" pic still
loaded in MS Paint (still set to 1x1 for Fit To option), I printed to
the PDF printer but this time select JPEG for output instead of PDF. I
opened the new .jpg in MS Paint and looked at its properties (in inches)
and it said the size was 11 x 8.5. So it looks like Fit To works.

I also have a print preview mode for my real printer; that is, after
using the Print function in a program and it sends its output to the
printer, my printer has software that shows me what the printout will
look like (as a safety net option to eliminate wasting ink). It also
showed the printout would occupy just 1 page. So it seems the Fit To
option works. My paper size was 8.5" x 11". Don't know what yours is.

 

[VanguardLH]

Note: I was using Paint in Windows 7. Could be some of the features
described in Paint aren't available in the Windows XP version. You'll
have to check.

 

[micky]

I don't use any of those programs since Irfan takes the place
of all of them.
Irfan, can crop the pic then print.
It can also resize.

Sounds great. I'd forgotten about Irfanview, though I did remember
there was something I'd forgotten about!

I have to go fix another computer but when I get home I'll try it out
and do the things Vanguard suggests too.

 

[RobertMacy]

Sounds great. I'd forgotten about Irfanview, though I did remember
there was something I'd forgotten about!

I have to go fix another computer but when I get home I'll try it out
and do the things Vanguard suggests too.

I too, highly recommend Irfanview. However, I use it slightly differently.
I use paint and then Irfanview.
important to use Win98 MSpaint, NOT WinXP MSpaint, do all the work,
because MSpaint shows EACH pixel, and sometimes need to work on each
pixel. THEN go to Irfanview for printing, conversion resizing etc Why not
simply 'stretch' in MSpaint. Because Irfanview has some 'miracle'
algorithm in it that smooths, whereas MSpaint either increases, or
decimates, the image. To compare take a circle, then stretch in paint vs
Irfanview and recompare. You'll see a vast difference.

 

[casey.o]

I've gotten pretty good at using MSPaint and Windows Picture and Fax
Viewer, and Picasa.

But this time, I only wanted to print a portion of the .tif file I had
downloaded.

How do I zoom in on a portion of an image (possibly cut and paste that
portion to another file) and print the portion so that it fills the
sheet of paper?

Would it help to convert the .tif to something else?

Thanks.


Details.
Using MSPaint, I enlarged my .tif file a lot, put a box around the
part I wanted, copied it, and pasted it into a blank .tif file. Then
I used a red-colored line to overdraw my property line, and blue and
green lines to overdraw each of my neighbors' property lines. So far
so good!

Now I want to print the whole thing, I clicked Print and fortunately
for me I saw more than one page being formatted. I stopped it all
before it wasted by precious ink. I checked using Print Preview, and
it was going to print 36 pages, only the first 2 of which would not be
blank!

But I wanted the image all on one page. So I did Image, Rotate 90^,
and then the screen was blank! I moved the horizontal and vertical
scroll things to the other end of the screen, but never saw anything, so
I used Print Preview again. This time the image was broken up into 4 or
more pieces, mixed in among a lot of blank pages totaling 36 again!!

So I called up my saved image with Win Picture and Fax Viewer. It
looked good. That program has no Print Preview, so I clicked Print, and
that started the Photo Printing Wizard which might have come with my new
Epson printer. It has an automatic preview function, and it showed my
image in its original size, stuck in a small corner of the image of the
page.

Then I used PrntScrn and Wordpad and pasted it into a blank Wordpad
document. It looks good but there is too much, the bottom of the
Picture Viewer screen, and the top giving the file name, (thus looking
much less like a copy of the plat), and the bottom of the Windows
screen,

Then I dl'd Picasa, and it didn't even have zoom afaict. And the
picture was little, hiding in the corner of a blank page.

I might even settle for printing the thing before adding the red, green,
and blue lines, and try to add them by hand without smearing the ink,
but I don't know how to do that either.

I'd just make a copy of the original and rename it as (filename-copy).
Load the copy in Photoshop or (I'd use) Paint Shop Pro. Then use the
CROP feature to crop the part of the image you want. After that, just
print it to fit the page.

TIF is a rather oddball picture format. I dont know if it's lossy or
not, but I'd convert it to BMP, which is not lossy. It's like if you
modify a JPG, everytime you save the modification, you lose some detail.
When I modify a JPG, I immediately save it to BMP (Or PCX). PCX uses
less disk space than BMP. These are not lossy. When I get my finished
image, then I'll save the BMP or PCX as a JPG. Paint Shop Pro can save
the image to any picture type you want. Since you have a TIF, I'm
guessing you scanned the image. Scanners seem to use that TIF type
image, at least the older scanners did.

 

[micky]

I'd just make a copy of the original and rename it as (filename-copy).
Load the copy in Photoshop

I have an old version I never installed.

or (I'd use) Paint Shop Pro. Then use the
CROP feature to crop the part of the image you want. After that, just
print it to fit the page.

TIF is a rather oddball picture format. I dont know if it's lossy or
not, but I'd convert it to BMP, which is not lossy. It's like if you
modify a JPG, everytime you save the modification, you lose some detail.
When I modify a JPG, I immediately save it to BMP (Or PCX). PCX uses
less disk space than BMP. These are not lossy. When I get my finished
image, then I'll save the BMP or PCX as a JPG. Paint Shop Pro can save
the image to any picture type you want. Since you have a TIF, I'm
guessing you scanned the image.

Not me. The county clerk.

In Baltimore County, there is no longer any point to going to the county
clerk's office. All they do is give you a computer terminal, and
anything you can do there you can do at home. It's quite nice.

All this, and court information too, was always public, but it was a lot
less public when you had to go to the courthouse to learn it. Privacy
is going out the window. We'd better clean up our act.

 

[Ken Springer]

I'd just make a copy of the original and rename it as (filename-copy).
Load the copy in Photoshop or (I'd use) Paint Shop Pro. Then use the
CROP feature to crop the part of the image you want. After that, just
print it to fit the page.

TIF is a rather oddball picture format. I dont know if it's lossy or
not, but I'd convert it to BMP, which is not lossy.

TIF, also TIFF, stands for Tagged Image File Format. It's one of the
first, if not the first, bitmapped file formats. It's used by the real
professional photographers, desktop publishing, and others. The cameras
they use will save in either TIFF or RAW file formats, and possibly
others. The only difference I know of between TIFF and RAW is the RAW
file format does not have the file header info that says it's a TIFF
file or another type of file.

TIFF and RAW are lossless file formats.

It's like if you
modify a JPG, everytime you save the modification, you lose some detail.

Up to a point. You will eventually reach a point where the compression
algorithm no longer will find any pixels to do its magic on, and the
resulting image will be left unchanged after the compression routine is run.

When I modify a JPG, I immediately save it to BMP (Or PCX). PCX uses
less disk space than BMP. These are not lossy. When I get my finished
image, then I'll save the BMP or PCX as a JPG. Paint Shop Pro can save
the image to any picture type you want. Since you have a TIF, I'm
guessing you scanned the image. Scanners seem to use that TIF type
image, at least the older scanners did.

--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 25.0
Thunderbird 24.3.0
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"

 

[Paul]

I'd just make a copy of the original and rename it as (filename-copy).
Load the copy in Photoshop or (I'd use) Paint Shop Pro. Then use the
CROP feature to crop the part of the image you want. After that, just
print it to fit the page.

TIF is a rather oddball picture format. I dont know if it's lossy or
not, but I'd convert it to BMP, which is not lossy. It's like if you
modify a JPG, everytime you save the modification, you lose some detail.
When I modify a JPG, I immediately save it to BMP (Or PCX). PCX uses
less disk space than BMP. These are not lossy. When I get my finished
image, then I'll save the BMP or PCX as a JPG. Paint Shop Pro can save
the image to any picture type you want. Since you have a TIF, I'm
guessing you scanned the image. Scanners seem to use that TIF type
image, at least the older scanners did.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tagged_Image_File_Format

"A TIFF file, for example, can be a container holding
compressed (lossy) JPEG and (lossless) PackBits compressed images."

"Baseline TIFF readers must handle the following three compression schemes:

* No compression
* CCITT Group 3 1-Dimensional Modified Huffman RLE
* PackBits compression - a form of run-length encoding"

"Compression

* CCITT T.4 bi-level encoding
* CCITT T.6 bi-level encoding
* LZW Compression scheme
* JPEG-based compression (TIFF compression scheme 7) uses
the DCT (Discrete Cosine Transform)
"

I think the JPEG-like one would be lossy. The others are OK.

Further down in the article, is an even larger collection of
tags inside the file, to mark more compression variations.

A full implementation of TIFF reader code is rare, in that
there are so many variations and hacks (as it's a container
format), you can always find a file with .TIF on the end, that
your image editor cannot open properly. For the variants that
are common or part of the standard, you shouldn't have a problem
with those. If one of your image editors on the Windows computer
saves out a .TIF, another image editor will be able to read it.
A .TIF coming from a camera or scanner, there's more opportunities
for a screwup.

The CCITT compressor, is also used in FAX.

"The most basic fax mode transfers black and white colors only.
The original page is scanned in a resolution of 1728 pixels/line
and 1145 lines/page (for A4). The resulting raw data is compressed
using a modified Huffman code optimized for written text, achieving
average compression factors of around 20. Typically a page needs
10 seconds for transmission, instead of about 3 minutes for the
same uncompressed raw data of 1728*1145 bits at a speed of
9600 bit/s. The compression method uses a Huffman codebook for
run lengths of black and white runs in a single scanned line,
and it can also use the fact that two adjacent scanlines are
usually quite similar, saving bandwidth by encoding only the
differences."

That compressor is even used inside PDF documents, if Adobe Distiller
knows a picture has the appropriate type of black and white content.
It allowed me to scan and distribute some rather large documents,
with a reasonable byte size (distributed as PDF). If you need to
squeeze the document further, then noise reduction in your image
editor before making the PDF, might help.

Paul

 

[micky]

You already know the cut-n-paste operation to create a new image file
that contains just the selected portion of the original image. Open old
file, select content, copy it, open new blank doc, paste clip, and save.

For curiosity, after loading the image file into MS Paint, use File ->
Properties to check the size.

Version 5;1 of MS Paint (XP-SP3) seems not to have Properties under
File, but it does have Image / Attributes,

Size on Disk 936,620 Bytes
96 x 96 DPI
Width 47.65 inches Height 46.15 inches

which is indeed possible. It's the plat map for my whole 109 townhouse
neighborhood, and I think I once saw it on paper. I've extracted the
part with 7 lots and 3 partial lots, good context for the 3 lots in the
middle that I really want.

Change the size from pixels to inches to
see how big is the picture

In pixels it's 4575 W x 4431 H. The inches are above.

(versus the size of whatever paper size you
want to print a hardcopy). If that shows a pic size greate than your
paper size then in the File -> Print -> Page Setup dialog is a setting
for "Fit to". Is it set to 1x1 pages?

No.

It was set to Adjust to 100% normal size

Iif I set it to Fit to, it shows 7 x 5 pages.

I set that to 1 x 1 and printed it (on a black and white printer) and it
was just a little image in the corner.

Now I'll try what is below.

FTR, the original I see now was 48 x 46 inches, and I want only about
1.5 x 1 inches of that, but I want it blown up to 11 x 8.5 or so.
Just one sheet of paper. . It looks good on the screen even all
blown up like that.

I don't have many large pics. I picked one that said it was 17+ x 13+
in size (don't remember the decimal portion). I used Page Setup to make
sure it was set to "Fit to: 1 by 1" (1 page). I printed to a virtual
printer (PDF printer) and opened the PDF which was set to Page view.
The pic occupied only 1 page.

The PDF printer that I use (BullZip PDF Printer) lets you pick other
file formats to "print" the document. So with the 17"x13" pic still
loaded in MS Paint (still set to 1x1 for Fit To option), I printed to
the PDF printer but this time select JPEG for output instead of PDF. I
opened the new .jpg in MS Paint and looked at its properties (in inches)
and it said the size was 11 x 8.5. So it looks like Fit To works.

I also have a print preview mode for my real printer; that is, after
using the Print function in a program and it sends its output to the
printer, my printer has software that shows me what the printout will
look like (as a safety net option to eliminate wasting ink).

Yes, I think that's what the Photo Printing Wizard did, how I noticed
how little the image Window Picture and Fax Viewer was.

It also
showed the printout would occupy just 1 page. So it seems the Fit To
option works. My paper size was 8.5" x 11". Don't know what yours is.

8.5x11!!

 

[VanguardLH]

Then it looks like you need to use a 3rd party tool (IrfanView was
mentioned by another poster as were other image editing programs). MS
Paint can do some things but it was just fluff added to Windows to bloat
its feature set. WordPad is useful, too, but can't compete against
Open/LibreOffice or KingSoft Office Suite.

 

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

I don't use any of those programs since Irfan takes the place
of all of them.
Irfan, can crop the pic then print.
It can also resize.

+1; it reads TIFF, crop, draw coloured lines on, etc., and the print
screen is very versatile - it shows a little mimic of the piece of
paper. You can set a size in pixels, inches, or cm., retaining the
aspect ratio or not, best fit to page retaining aspect ratio or not ...

 

[micky]

+1; it reads TIFF, crop, draw coloured lines on, etc., and the print
screen is very versatile - it shows a little mimic of the piece of
paper. You can set a size in pixels, inches, or cm., retaining the
aspect ratio or not, best fit to page retaining aspect ratio or not ...

Well, Irfanview didn't do much for me. But I'm satisfied with another
method, so if you're like me and you start your reply at the same time
you start reading, bear that in mind.

I took the file after I had used MSPaint to draw my colored lines, and I
used Irfan to convert it from TIF to JPG, and it continued to be a small
drawing in the corner. I couldn't manage to resize it using resize. I
put 200 or 300 percent in the percent field, and sometimes it took no
time, other times it took quite a while with the hourglass, but when it
finished, the drawing was the same size. I rotated the drawing 90^
before I tried this, and later I tried without any rotating. I used
the defaults on the Resize screen. I would appeciate help on this,
for next time, if it doesn't take too much time.


Then I went back to MSPaint and finally noticed that the scroll bars, H
and Vertical, were only abut 1/4 the length of the scroll runway. Even
though I had copied from the original TIF only a part with writing,
somehow, the new file was 4 times as wide and about 4 times as high, and
the rest was blank. How did it decide that the copy and pasted part
was 1/4 of the dimensions of the whole and not 1/10, or 4/4ths?

I continued in MSPaint, put a box around the whole part with writing,
and copied it to the scratchpad, or whateve it is called. (I can never
remember) . I guess it remained a .tif when I did this.

I had been reminded by a post in this thread about MSWord and I don't
have that anymore, but I have OOffice. I tried OODraw, which had an
outline of an 8.5 x 11 proportion page that moved from left to right and
back in front of a bigger area. (I don't understand that. Is MSDraw
like this?) I could only paste the image into the middle of the
screen, then if I tried to drag it by one of those pins at the corners
or in the middle of the sides, instead of moving in one piece, it just
stretched out, to the left or to the corner. This didn't move the
right end to the 8x11 space when that was to the left, so eventually I
put the 8x11 in the middle and pasted again. Now it was in the middle
horizontallly, half way between the top and bottom and dragging on a top
pin would just make it taller, not move the whole thing. So I left it
in the middle and printed it and it's pretty good.

I also tried OOWrite. This was a little simpler. I put the cursor in
the upper left, and pasted and the image was at the top, not the
vertical middle, like above. There was a a little margin on each
side, but other than that, It reached from one side to the other, the
proportion seemed like the original, and copying and pasting from the
..tif hadn't cost me fidelity. BTW, everything in this last sentence
was true with OODraw too. (and with OODraw, the image was a little
bigger, the margins were a little smaller. ) I printed from OOWrite
too, and it's also pretty good, though the L and R margins seem a little
bigger. I saved the OOWrite and OODraw images.

In neither program could I rotate. OODraw, iirc only had rotating of
text, and OOWrite had nothing. Doesn't MSWord have Rotate? OODraw
has a newer version, but I didn't stop to get it. This one is a couple
years old. . The image is wider than tall, and I could have, if I
could figure out how, rotated and made the image substantially bigger if
I could place it in landscape mode.

Thanks for your help.

 

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

On Tue, 1 Apr 2014 01:18:04 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"


Well, Irfanview didn't do much for me. But I'm satisfied with another
method, so if you're like me and you start your reply at the same time
you start reading, bear that in mind.

I took the file after I had used MSPaint to draw my colored lines, and I
used Irfan to convert it from TIF to JPG, and it continued to be a small
drawing in the corner. I couldn't manage to resize it using resize. I
put 200 or 300 percent in the percent field, and sometimes it took no
time, other times it took quite a while with the hourglass, but when it
finished, the drawing was the same size. I rotated the drawing 90^

As shown in the number of pixels (bottom left of window or top of
screen, depending which view you're looking at in Irfan), or just size
on screen? Irfan has the option to zoom - out or in - to fit the window,
which unless you're in full screen mode, you toggle with the F (for
"fit") key. (In full screen mode, the F key still changes zoom mode, but
cycling through I think six modes.) If you _are_ in fit-window-to-image
mode, then changing the size in the resize screen won't _appear_ to do
anything - if you double it, for example, it'll just zoom to half the
magnification.

before I tried this, and later I tried without any rotating. I used
the defaults on the Resize screen. I would appeciate help on this,
for next time, if it doesn't take too much time.


Then I went back to MSPaint and finally noticed that the scroll bars, H
and Vertical, were only abut 1/4 the length of the scroll runway. Even

That was my thought earlier actually: that you'd actually got a big
white image, with your picture just in a corner of it. If that's the
case, in Irfan, view it, and if you have scroll bars, type F to see all
of it - then draw a rectangle around the bit with your image in it, and
crop (Ctrl-Y).

though I had copied from the original TIF only a part with writing,
somehow, the new file was 4 times as wide and about 4 times as high, and
the rest was blank. How did it decide that the copy and pasted part
was 1/4 of the dimensions of the whole and not 1/10, or 4/4ths?

I think paint sometimes creates an image of a size it decides on, and
when you paste into it, your paste goes into a corner of it. I just
opened Paint here, and it has opened at 640 × 400 (yes, 400 not 480).

I continued in MSPaint, put a box around the whole part with writing,
and copied it to the scratchpad, or whateve it is called. (I can never

Clipboard. Though when I read your post at first, I couldn't remember
either (-: ...

remember) . I guess it remained a .tif when I did this.

Weeell, while it's in the memory of an image program, it's not anything
- it's raw image data. Looking at what Paint can _open_, it seems to be
JPEG, GIF, TIFF, PNG, and ICO; looking at what it can _save_, you can
choose bitmap (1, 4, 8, or 24 bits per pixel), JPEG, GIF, TIFF, or PNG.
(I hadn't realised it could do all those; I'm sure I remember when it
just did BMPs - possibly back in the '9x days.)
[]

screen, then if I tried to drag it by one of those pins at the corners
or in the middle of the sides, instead of moving in one piece, it just
stretched out, to the left or to the corner. This didn't move the

Hmm. In Word, I think the corner "handles" zoom the size keeping the
aspect ratio the same, whereas the middle-of-sides ones stretch or
squeeze it (I think it's that way round, anyway).

right end to the 8x11 space when that was to the left, so eventually I
put the 8x11 in the middle and pasted again. Now it was in the middle
horizontallly, half way between the top and bottom and dragging on a top
pin would just make it taller, not move the whole thing. So I left it
in the middle and printed it and it's pretty good.

Ah, sounds like you have some sort of "layers", where the image is on a
different one to the text. Drives me nuts when I have to edit someone
else's Word document that's got images like that.
[]

In neither program could I rotate. OODraw, iirc only had rotating of
text, and OOWrite had nothing. Doesn't MSWord have Rotate? OODraw

Yes - you get a sort of handle that sticks out of one side of the image,
and you turn it round with that. Not sure which version that came in
with.
[]

could figure out how, rotated and made the image substantially bigger if
I could place it in landscape mode.

Just R (for right) or L in IrfanView ... (-: (Or shift-J then R or L for
"lossless" rotation (by multiples of 90° only) of JPEGs.

Thanks for your help.

Well, ... (-:

 

[micky]

As shown in the number of pixels (bottom left of window or top of
screen, depending which view you're looking at in Irfan), or just size
on screen? Irfan has the option to zoom - out or in - to fit the window,
which unless you're in full screen mode, you toggle with the F (for
"fit") key. (In full screen mode, the F key still changes zoom mode, but
cycling through I think six modes.) If you _are_ in fit-window-to-image
mode, then changing the size in the resize screen won't _appear_ to do
anything - if you double it, for example, it'll just zoom to half the
magnification.


That was my thought earlier actually: that you'd actually got a big
white image, with your picture just in a corner of it. If that's the
case, in Irfan, view it, and if you have scroll bars, type F to see all
of it - then draw a rectangle around the bit with your image in it, and
crop (Ctrl-Y).


I think paint sometimes creates an image of a size it decides on, and
when you paste into it, your paste goes into a corner of it. I just
opened Paint here, and it has opened at 640 × 400 (yes, 400 not 480).

Clipboard. Though when I read your post at first, I couldn't remember
either (-: ...

Clipboard! That's it! I've had trouble remembering this word for 15
years, long before I had trouble remembering other words.

(In IBM mainframes, it's called the SPA, the scratchpad area.)

Weeell, while it's in the memory of an image program, it's not anything
- it's raw image data. Looking at what Paint can _open_, it seems to be
JPEG, GIF, TIFF, PNG, and ICO; looking at what it can _save_, you can
choose bitmap (1, 4, 8, or 24 bits per pixel), JPEG, GIF, TIFF, or PNG.
(I hadn't realised it could do all those; I'm sure I remember when it
just did BMPs - possibly back in the '9x days.)

Uh huh.

[]

screen, then if I tried to drag it by one of those pins at the corners
or in the middle of the sides, instead of moving in one piece, it just
stretched out, to the left or to the corner. This didn't move the

Hmm. In Word, I think the corner "handles" zoom the size keeping the
aspect ratio the same, whereas the middle-of-sides ones stretch or
squeeze it (I think it's that way round, anyway).

When the 8.5x11 area was to the left, pulling on the corner would have
made it bigger, which woudl be okay, except the right half was still
hanging over the width boundary.

When I moved the 8.5x11 area to the middle, since it was already the
right width, stretching it vertically would have distorted it.

Ah, sounds like you have some sort of "layers", where the image is on a
different one to the text. Drives me nuts when I have to edit someone
else's Word document that's got images like that.

I guess I'll understand this if I live long enough.

In neither program could I rotate. OODraw, iirc only had rotating of
text, and OOWrite had nothing. Doesn't MSWord have Rotate? OODraw

Yes - you get a sort of handle that sticks out of one side of the image,
and you turn it round with that. Not sure which version that came in
with.
[]

could figure out how, rotated and made the image substantially bigger if
I could place it in landscape mode.

Just R (for right) or L in IrfanView ... (-: (Or shift-J then R or L for
"lossless" rotation (by multiples of 90° only) of JPEGs.

In irfanview I could rotate it. I never tried pasting into Irfanview,
only into the two open office programs. With Irfan, I only opened the
file. Maybe if I'd pasted, it woudl have been full width and then I
could have rotated, and it would have looked nice.

But by this time there were so many paths to take.

I didn't write many comments but I will try some more experiments with
all this, using your suggestions. Thanks.