Here's how Microsoft could reward CPP participants!

[David Wilkinson]

Seeing what Microsoft is doing about my bug report is not important to me.
It is of no concern. The fact that they are doing something is important.
And I have seen may of the items addressed in these groups, submitted as bug
reports, taken care of during subsequent builds. Microsoft "does" look at
the reports. They may NOT digest what is in these newsgroups - then again
they may.

I am a developer, and my only current interest in Vista is to see if my
programs will install and run smoothly on it. If I discover bugs in
Vista that prevent this ( have found many), then I certainly want them
fixed, before they become institutionalized as features. So I am very
resentful of the fact that I cannot view the status of my reports. It
just makes no sense to me.

Furthermore, up to and including RC1, none of my issues were fixed. I
was relieved to see that several of them were addressed in build 5728,
but a number of them remain.

David Wilkinson

 

[Steve Urbach]

Absolutely!! I find entering bug reports into a vacuum totally
frustrating. I have never received any feedback in any form from any of
my bug reports (and there have been a lot of them). And I am an MVP/MSDN
subscriber, not a CPP member.

David Wilkinson

I was a Borland Beta tester (Paradox), We got some feedback, a private
forum where we could compare notes and experiences.
Many of my bug reports were fixed, some of my suggestions were
implemented (Guess others concurred <G>)

What bothers me the most is the seemingly moving target for 3rd party
drivers and applications. How does one expect them to keep up if the
target requirements move between releases.
Sound card
RAID card
Graphics (older)
Even my Mouse (trackball)
are either not available or no longer function.
<rant>
My object is to keep electronics OUT of the landfill/junk heap as long
as possible. Only having drivers for the latest and greatest hardware
is not helping the environment.
<\rant>

 

[SAM-R]

Well since 5728 was never posted on the MSDN Server for download, how did
you get it? From the public CPP download Server. You should know that
anything on Connect, stays on Connect. Always has, always will.

 

[David Wilkinson]

Well since 5728 was never posted on the MSDN Server for download, how did
you get it? From the public CPP download Server. You should know that
anything on Connect, stays on Connect. Always has, always will.

IIRC, the link for build 5728 was posted in this newsgroup by TechBeta
members (among others), and was not a protected site.

And quite frankly, if there were any other way of finding out if bugs
had been fixed, I would not be downloading every build I can get my
hands on. It is a very inefficient method of checking on the status of
the product. But no other way is provided for those who are not official
beta testers.

David Wilkinson

 

[Guest]

"...any CPP participants contribute nothing..." ???

I was just wondering how this was determined - maybe MVP comes with some
type of mystical powers so words such as these can be sent down from the
mountain.

I guess since I went through the first CPP beta release, then RC1 5600, and
currently using RC1 5728 without any problems whatsoever and have not
submitted anything since absolutely no problems - I have not contributed
anything. I guess I should have made up some problems and submitted so that I
could have contributed something.

Of course, I followed Microsoft's advice on the download page, and if I
remember correctly in the EULA, also and did not put it on a "production"
machine, instead put it on non-production machine so may not have given it as
much workout as others.

 

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

A small correction on the quote of mine, it should say "many CPP
participants..."
More of an educated guess based on the numbers and probability that all will
not contribute.
Perhaps they all contribute, but I would be very surprised considering the
large numbers.
Contribute may be a bad word but in this case, but by contribute I mean post
bugs and/or contribute something in these newsgroups.
Anyone posting constructively in the newsgroups contributes since they are
looking for a solution, helping others, posting bugs etc.
However the best place for bugs is using the reporting tool.
As I said before, there is no expectation by Microsoft that CPP participants
contribute, but Microsoft does use the information if they do submit it.

I wish that information was available at least to the submitter, but
unfortunately it is not.
Furthermore since the default is private, no one outside Microsoft can
access it to see what transpired unless the person submitting has taken the
time to set to public.

You participate here constructively, so in my view, you contribute.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
http://www.dts-l.org

 

[Guest]

Well,

here's my 2 cents worth....

I've been using vista in production enviornment since pre-rc1. Now, to
qualify production I use it for everyday use. Play my games, surf the net,
listen to music, email, my hobby of programing...etc basic joe schmoe user
stuff.

I've submitted bug reports, 2 or 3 or so for bugs that were serious enough
to stop me from being average joe user. Those bug reports I actually
submitted. More importantly though, every time a program crashed, or
misbehaved, I would submit a report the same way you would for xp...

I think this is the most important thing about the cpp. It helps to capture
errors in everyday use. And as the builds progress I have seen much
improvement. Beta 2 wouldn't run for more then 5 mins unless I turned Hyper
Threading off. Now I have ht on and running for days, everything but my
soundcard on my desktop works great.

As a marketing ploy, it's brilliant. Get people hooked on the new version
long before it actually comes out. I can't imagine myself happily moving
back to xp when my beta expires, I'll simply HAVE to go buy an upgrade before
that happens.

But regardless, I don't begrudge ms for their beta programs. I'm not in the
tech community. I look at it like this, I'm doing ms a favor by trying the
os in everyday use. I report my bugs to both ms and hardware and software
companies. In fact, I'm still waiting on a good driver for my cmedia 9880
chipset.

I agree, I think ms could sell us a key at a discounted price, especially
since they save the cost of manufactuing the material to buy a box at best
buy or circuit city. Or better yet, run some launch events like they did for
Visual Studio last year and invite the cpp community. If cpp testers were
serious enough, they'd show up and get a coupon or dvd of the os.

Early release to beta testers could actually help ms in marketing...the
whole word of mouth thing..."Hey man, I got an advance copy of Vista and not
a bug in it....works great on my system, you should get it when it's released
next month, wanna check it out, here's my notebook..." etc. I talk all the
time about my expierence with vista with friends and family and even showed
it off from time to time to people wanting to see it, but not install a beta.

Anyway guys, really ms doesn't owe us cpp testers a thing...they did us a
favor by opening up to us. So whatever ms does or doesn't do, I'm fine with.
I fully expect to pay for 2 upgrades to vista ultimate at retail price, if
ms gives me a better deal, great, if not oh well. I'll still beta test the
next os if ms allows me to.

 

[Jim Fraas]

I may not contribute too much ,but the fact is I DO use Vista on a regular
basis.
With thr XP and 98 tests I went full tilt (ran the Beta OS exclusively but
installed RTM clean.
RC2 will be the FIFTH Vista build i use.

 

[Jim Fraas]

Idf there was a crieria requiring to submit a certain number of bug reports
in order to get rearly access to RTM code,wouldnt folks try to submit FAKE
Bug reports?

 

[Steve Urbach]

Bug reports could/should be validated by the code teams before further
details are released.

I would be pleased simply to know if *MY* bug reports could be
confirmed and or duplicated.

 

[Intel Inside]

Not if they have any sense of integrity.
There will always be people without scruples.

 

[David Wilkinson]

Bug reports could/should be validated by the code teams before further
details are released.

I would be pleased simply to know if *MY* bug reports could be
confirmed and or duplicated.

Yes, yes, yes.

As it is, for each release I download and burn and install both
versions, which takes several hours, and then spend several more hours
refiling the reports on the same bugs that are still there.

It just makes no sense.

David Wilkinson

 

[David Wilkinson]

Well,

here's my 2 cents worth....

I've been using vista in production enviornment since pre-rc1. Now, to
qualify production I use it for everyday use. Play my games, surf the net,
listen to music, email, my hobby of programing...etc basic joe schmoe user
stuff.

I've submitted bug reports, 2 or 3 or so for bugs that were serious enough
to stop me from being average joe user. Those bug reports I actually
submitted. More importantly though, every time a program crashed, or
misbehaved, I would submit a report the same way you would for xp...

I think this is the most important thing about the cpp. It helps to capture
errors in everyday use. And as the builds progress I have seen much
improvement. Beta 2 wouldn't run for more then 5 mins unless I turned Hyper
Threading off. Now I have ht on and running for days, everything but my
soundcard on my desktop works great.

As a marketing ploy, it's brilliant. Get people hooked on the new version
long before it actually comes out. I can't imagine myself happily moving
back to xp when my beta expires, I'll simply HAVE to go buy an upgrade before
that happens.

But regardless, I don't begrudge ms for their beta programs. I'm not in the
tech community. I look at it like this, I'm doing ms a favor by trying the
os in everyday use. I report my bugs to both ms and hardware and software
companies. In fact, I'm still waiting on a good driver for my cmedia 9880
chipset.

I agree, I think ms could sell us a key at a discounted price, especially
since they save the cost of manufactuing the material to buy a box at best
buy or circuit city. Or better yet, run some launch events like they did for
Visual Studio last year and invite the cpp community. If cpp testers were
serious enough, they'd show up and get a coupon or dvd of the os.

Early release to beta testers could actually help ms in marketing...the
whole word of mouth thing..."Hey man, I got an advance copy of Vista and not
a bug in it....works great on my system, you should get it when it's released
next month, wanna check it out, here's my notebook..." etc. I talk all the
time about my expierence with vista with friends and family and even showed
it off from time to time to people wanting to see it, but not install a beta.

Anyway guys, really ms doesn't owe us cpp testers a thing...they did us a
favor by opening up to us. So whatever ms does or doesn't do, I'm fine with.
I fully expect to pay for 2 upgrades to vista ultimate at retail price, if
ms gives me a better deal, great, if not oh well. I'll still beta test the
next os if ms allows me to.

[snip]

I would agree with everything you say if we could see the status of the
bug reports. As it is I only bother with it because I am a developer,
and I need to know whether Vista bugs have been fixed, or I need to code
around them.

David Wilkinson


David Wilkinson