help with pagefile

T

timOleary

I want to modify my pagefile. Currently it is on my C drive; initial
1536 max 3072, but recommended size is 4606mb
I aded RAM since the system was first set up

So I want to add another pagefile to my D drive which I do not use
much at all.

What size should I make the pagefiles, and for the one on the D drive,
should I put it in its own partition? Currently the drive is not
partitioned, has 16.9G used and 215G free.
there are three folders I can see on it:
MSO Cache 0 bytes
RECYCLER 178 Kbytes
System Volume information 0 bytes
What is recycler? some backup program my wife downloaded?

Thanks
 
G

Gerry

Tim

Frequently users loosely describe partitions as a "drive". Please
clarify what you mean by drive?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disk_partitioning

How much RAM is installed?

Try Ctrl+Alt+Delete to select Task Manager and click the Performance
Tab. Under Commit Charge what is the Total, the Limit and the Peak?


--


Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
T

timOleary

I want to modify my pagefile. Currently it is on my C drive; initial
1536 max 3072, but recommended size is 4606mb
I aded RAM since the system was first set up

So I want to add another pagefile to my D drive which I do not use
much at all.

What size should I make the pagefiles, and for the one on the D drive,
should I put it in its own partition? Currently the drive is not
partitioned, has 16.9G used and 215G free.
there are three folders I can see on it:
MSO Cache 0 bytes
RECYCLER 178 Kbytes
System Volume information 0 bytes
What is recycler? some backup program my wife downloaded?

Thanks

I have 4 gig of RAM now.
currently 1536 to 3072
recommended 4606
Hope this is the information you requested
Thanks
 
G

Gerry

Tim

You may have installed 4 gb of RAM but a 32 bit system will not
recognise 4 gb because it does not have sufficient address spaces.
Typically between 2.8 and 3.2 gb is recognised.

You will encounter differing opinions on pagefile settings. Most people
let Windows manage the pagefile but I prefer to set minimum = maximum
pagefile file settings. I cannot see the point in using a lower minimum
figure.

Placing the pagefile in a dedicated first partition is preferable. Make
it 4,636 given the ample free disk space available. You need to retain a
50 mb pagefile on C to allow for memory dumps and other requirements.

--


Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
M

Mike Hall - MVP

timOleary said:
I want to modify my pagefile. Currently it is on my C drive; initial
1536 max 3072, but recommended size is 4606mb
I aded RAM since the system was first set up

So I want to add another pagefile to my D drive which I do not use
much at all.

What size should I make the pagefiles, and for the one on the D drive,
should I put it in its own partition? Currently the drive is not
partitioned, has 16.9G used and 215G free.
there are three folders I can see on it:
MSO Cache 0 bytes
RECYCLER 178 Kbytes
System Volume information 0 bytes
What is recycler? some backup program my wife downloaded?

Thanks


Tim

Unless you have two separate physical drives, leave the pagefile on C and
let the system manage it..
 
T

timOleary

Tim

Unless you have two separate physical drives, leave the pagefile on C and
let the system manage it..

Sorry for not answering the drive question. I have a C and a D drive
(two separate physical drives).
The existing page file is where Windows placed it.
And my question was how I should alter the pagefile size on C, and
What parameters I should set for the additional pagefile on the D
drive. And is it necessary to partition the D drive and place the
pagefile in there, or just put it on the d drive?

BTW: I know that my 32 bit system does not fully utilize the $G of
RAM.
Thanks for the feedback
 
G

Gerry

Tim

You will get two replies. One from each side of the pagefile debate.

As I understand it the the quickest read / write speeds are at the
beginning of the drive. If you do not partition the pagefile it will be
placed in the middle of the drive. With nothing on the disk you can
reformat and partition the disk without third party tools. Once the
drive is populated you cannot partition non-destructively without third
party tools, so if you are going to partition, it is best to do it now.

If you do not partition, a fixed size pagefile will be positioned in the
middle of the drive, where read / write speeds are slower. If you opt
for a windows managed pagefile that will work until the disk goes below
60% free disk space. At this point the pagefile will start to fragment
free disk space and file fragmentation becomes more problematic. It
becomes increasingly more difficult to create a single contiguous
pagefile where there is less than 50% free disk space. Another argument
for a fixed size pagefile.

Create a generous dedicated pagefile partiton now and you can forget
the impact of pagefile fragmentation for the life of your drives. As a
consequence defragmentation of the second partition takes less time than
it would if you had a windows managed pagefile. Moving the pagefile to a
dedicated partition on the second drive will also reduce the time it
takes to defragment the first drive. However, do not forget to leave a
50 mb minimum = maximum pagefile on C to accomodate the needs of the
system.

--


Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
T

timOleary

Tim

You will get two replies. One from each side of the pagefile debate.

As I understand it the the quickest read / write speeds are at the
beginning of the drive. If you do not partition the pagefile it will be
placed in the middle of the drive. With nothing on the disk you can
reformat  and partition the disk without third party tools. Once the
drive is populated you cannot partition non-destructively without third
party tools, so if you are going to partition, it is best to do it now.

If you do not partition, a fixed size pagefile will be positioned in the
middle of the drive, where read / write speeds are slower. If you opt
for a windows managed pagefile that will work until the disk goes below
60% free disk space. At this point the pagefile will start to fragment
free disk space and file fragmentation becomes more problematic. It
becomes increasingly more difficult to create a single contiguous
pagefile  where there is less than 50% free disk space. Another argument
for a fixed size pagefile.

Create a generous dedicated pagefile partiton now and you  can forget
the impact of pagefile fragmentation for the life of your drives. As a
consequence defragmentation of the second partition takes less time than
it would if you had a windows managed pagefile. Moving the pagefile to a
dedicated partition on the second drive will also reduce the time it
takes to defragment the first drive. However, do not forget to leave a
50 mb minimum = maximum pagefile on C to accomodate the needs of the
system.

--

Hope  this helps.

Gerry
 ~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This information is what I was after, and your explanation was clear
and I concur.
Thanks
The Microsoft help article I found on pagefiles was not clear to me
regarding the partition issue for the D drive.
I will definitely partition the D drive. How big a partition would you
recommend?
Can you offer some suggestions as to parameters for the two pagefiles?
I can see what Windows recommends, but I think the parameters shown as
assuming a single page file on the C drive. Does it also make sense to
cosnsider partitioning the C drive and placing the pagefile in its own
place? I would not do that in the foreseeable future.
Thanks again
 
M

Mike Hall - MVP

Gerry said:
Tim

You will get two replies. One from each side of the pagefile debate.

As I understand it the the quickest read / write speeds are at the
beginning of the drive. If you do not partition the pagefile it will be
placed in the middle of the drive. With nothing on the disk you can
reformat and partition the disk without third party tools. Once the drive
is populated you cannot partition non-destructively without third party
tools, so if you are going to partition, it is best to do it now.

If you do not partition, a fixed size pagefile will be positioned in the
middle of the drive, where read / write speeds are slower. If you opt for
a windows managed pagefile that will work until the disk goes below 60%
free disk space. At this point the pagefile will start to fragment free
disk space and file fragmentation becomes more problematic. It becomes
increasingly more difficult to create a single contiguous pagefile where
there is less than 50% free disk space. Another argument for a fixed size
pagefile.

Create a generous dedicated pagefile partiton now and you can forget the
impact of pagefile fragmentation for the life of your drives. As a
consequence defragmentation of the second partition takes less time than
it would if you had a windows managed pagefile. Moving the pagefile to a
dedicated partition on the second drive will also reduce the time it takes
to defragment the first drive. However, do not forget to leave a 50 mb
minimum = maximum pagefile on C to accomodate the needs of the system.

--


Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Gerry and the OP

When a computer starts, the heads move from the parked position and pick up
Windows. In use, the heads are not parked. They pick up programs and files
from all over the disk. If the pagefile is positioned centrally, the heads
will only ever have to traverse half way across to drop or pick up from the
pagefile.

Pagefiles rarely position exactly central, but it is better than having the
pagefile at one end. However, this only applies to a pagefile on the system
drive.

Windows prefers at least part of the pagefile on C, and it is best to set it
to system managed. Space is not wasted, and Windows determines the size
depending upon the range of tasks being undertaken.

The only time that a pagefile should ever be set to a limit is in situations
where a computer is doing the same task over and over, and the reason that
system admins do this is purely to maximize the space available for programs
and files without prejudicing performance.

A pagefile placed on a second physical drive ,which for the most part only
contains data, does not have to be in a separate partition. If it is, odds
are that the partition will be too small which would slow everything down,
or too large which wastes space. System managed is the name of the game
again.
 
T

Twayne

Mike said:
Gerry and the OP

When a computer starts, the heads move from the parked position and
pick up Windows. In use, the heads are not parked. They pick up
programs and files from all over the disk. If the pagefile is
positioned centrally, the heads will only ever have to traverse half
way across to drop or pick up from the pagefile.

Pagefiles rarely position exactly central, but it is better than
having the pagefile at one end. However, this only applies to a
pagefile on the system drive.

Windows prefers at least part of the pagefile on C, and it is best to
set it to system managed. Space is not wasted, and Windows determines
the size depending upon the range of tasks being undertaken.

The only time that a pagefile should ever be set to a limit is in
situations where a computer is doing the same task over and over, and
the reason that system admins do this is purely to maximize the space
available for programs and files without prejudicing performance.

A pagefile placed on a second physical drive ,which for the most part
only contains data, does not have to be in a separate partition. If
it is, odds are that the partition will be too small which would slow
everything down, or too large which wastes space. System managed is
the name of the game again.

Just to add another 2 ¢ to that:

No one has mentioned what this machine is being used for I don't think,
which has a bearing on whether even bothering with moving the pf
(pagefile) is of any benefit anyway.
With 4 Gig of RAM, it would take some intensive operations on large
data before the pf were even used, let alone used very much, for data
switching. If the pf is seldom or never used, then leaving everything
at default is sensible and provides a tiny decrease in the opportunity
for things to go wrong. In my situation, I consider anything under 500
Meg pf not used as I never see any noticeable delays occur. Much beyond
that though and i can start to notice pauses and occasional slowdowns,
especially if it reaches a Gig or more. That would be when I'm doing
video work. Those number of course are likely to vary by each case.
I don't believe in a separate partition for the pf either for the
reasons Mike gave, plus it guarantees the heads will never be in the pf
region when it's needed. The pf located on the most used area of the
drive is usually the best place for it, so that the heads will normally
likely be closer to it. It causes zero problems here, and I have a
non-System Managed pf on each drive; 150 Meg min/max on the boot drive
for dumps, and System Managed on my other physical hard drive. I"ve
read that if you don't limit the pf on the boot drive, that the other pf
may never be used until it becomes full & needs more room; haven't
verified that though it makes sense. My monitor shows that pf at a
fairly steady 150 to 167 Meg size.
I did note substantial increases in efficiency when I move my pg to a
second hard drive. For video rendering it was in the order or 33% to
almost 50%. Rendering is extremely disk/pf intensive.
Also, very large pagefiles occurring do and will impact other
programs that are running, especially if it reaches or surpasses say a
Gig in size and consisting of large buffers being stored in it. If a
person is reaching those proportions, then the opposite of not needing
to move the pf happens: the pf may be doing all it can do. Further
effors may be required in faster spinning drives, faster graphics cards,
faster RAM, faster cpu, etc. etc. etc.. In other words, you can only go
so far with the pf. There IS a point of diminishing returns after which
it won't be providing any further advantages.

One more thing to consider when you're envisioning your disk drive and
the data on it: Most programs have to show it in 2D as though it were
one big, vinyl record with all the data on its surface. But remember,
the disk is actually made up of several platters, or sub-disks, and
heads for each platter. Thus, what looks to be to the right of one
sector on a screen representation might actually be on a platter under
or over that sector. It depends on how it's structured.
Going there is really splitting hairs, but it helps when one comes
across some of the seeming inconsistancies on screen representations.

HTH,

Twayne`
 
G

Gerry

Tim

Mike represents the other viewpoint. Twayne is a Troll, who extols the
virtues of using a Registry Cleaner and has many other "bright" ideas.

The pagefile on the second drive should be 1.5 times the RAM. Make it
4,606 mb if that is the recommended figure. Adding further RAM to your
system would be pointless as you would exceed the address space limit
,which applies to 32 bit systems.Make the partition on the second drive
5,100 mb. I would not partition the rest of the second drive unless you
have a particular reason to do so. Leave it as a single partition.

The partition on C drive should be 50 mb on a basis that minimum =
maximum. This accomodates the system needs and permits the creation of a
dump file should have the misfortune to suffer a BSOD ( Blue Screen of
Death ) error.

I would not partition your the first drive.

My supper is ready so I will write later about the merits of firther
partitioning. This is another controversional topic where you encounter
two viewpoints.


--


Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
G

Gerry

Mike

You know we have differing viewpoints. I can agree with much of what you
say but at the end of the day we prefer differing ways to set up our
systems.

You admit that your first paragraph does not apply to a second drive. If
there is only a nominal pagefile on the first drive then your pont about
head travel is academic. It has little weight when trying to compare
pros and cons of the two approaches.

Paragraph 2 is sidelined because we are discussing a pagefile on the
second not the first drive.

Your point in paragraph 3 about wasted space is not material. A
pagefile limited to 50 mb is not a significant amount and if the user is
concerned about wasting 50 mb of disk space they need to purchase a
larger hard drive. You cannot have a nominal pagefile that is system
managed! There has to be a maximum as unless there is it will cease to
be a nominal amount.

Paragraph 4 falls down because most users do use their computer the same
way day in day out. The system admin on the home computer is the user
and arguments for separation are equally valid for a home user.

Your final paragraph opens up a can of worms. You assume the second
partition on the second drive is to contain data files. Data files can
be current or archived files. The data files can be be small and they
can be large. "If it is, odds are that the partition will be too small"
Tim has 215 gb free on the first drive. He is hardly short of disk
space.

Not using the Windows managed options avoids all the fragmentation
problems made worse by a non-contiguous pagefile as the amount of free
disk space reduces to below 30%. Removing the pagefile from the
partition actually means that you can have smaller free disk space
before the impact of limited disk space space starts to kick in. You may
need to think about that one. The same point applies to a pagefile
dedicated to archived photos because copying to the partition should
leave each file contiguous. Of course if you edit a photo in the archive
you mess up the arrangement. The point is you only need 15% or slightly
less free disk space to defragment. If you don't need to defragment you
need negligible free disk space and you will still be able to view and
copy from your archive.

My suggestions reduce the time taken to defragment as well as
eliminating the effect of a fragmented pagefile on other files and free
disk space. A long term .solution effective until the user needs a
larger drive.


--


Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
M

Mike Hall - MVP

Gerry said:
Tim

Mike represents the other viewpoint. Twayne is a Troll, who extols the
virtues of using a Registry Cleaner and has many other "bright" ideas.

The pagefile on the second drive should be 1.5 times the RAM. Make it
4,606 mb if that is the recommended figure. Adding further RAM to your
system would be pointless as you would exceed the address space limit
,which applies to 32 bit systems.Make the partition on the second drive
5,100 mb. I would not partition the rest of the second drive unless you
have a particular reason to do so. Leave it as a single partition.

The partition on C drive should be 50 mb on a basis that minimum =
maximum. This accomodates the system needs and permits the creation of a
dump file should have the misfortune to suffer a BSOD ( Blue Screen of
Death ) error.

I would not partition your the first drive.

My supper is ready so I will write later about the merits of firther
partitioning. This is another controversional topic where you encounter
two viewpoints.


--


Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Gerry

They are two different approaches for two different scenarios
 
G

Gerry

Mike

What different scenarios?


--


Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
T

timOleary

Mike

What different scenarios?

--

Gerry
 ~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


I am trying to familiarize myself with adjusting the pagefile but my
settings do not seem to be 'sticking'
please review these screen shots and tell me what the settings should
be and what I'm doing wrong.

http://www.postimage.org/gallery.php?session_id=e89fd6a6a3fd4ddb0d54bc48c76b4d58&sid=Pq

finally, if I manage to get the settings updated, how can I test the
PC to measure the improvement?
thanks
 
T

Twayne

Gerry said:

Mike represents the other viewpoint. Twayne is a Troll, who extols the
virtues of using a Registry Cleaner and has many other "bright" ideas.

Call it what you wish; I merely reply to EVERY post I happen to see that
says registry cleaners are snake oil, never work, will cause
interoperability and other such nonsense misinformation. If you don't
like being called on it, be prepared to defend it, something you nor
your tiny group of libelous misinfomationists can do with any sort of
verifiable evidence. I shall ignore further such foolishness and OT
comments in this thread.
The pagefile on the second drive should be 1.5 times the RAM. Make it
4,606 mb if that is the recommended figure. Adding further RAM to your
system would be pointless as you would exceed the address space limit
,which applies to 32 bit systems.Make the partition on the second
drive 5,100 mb. I would not partition the rest of the second drive
unless you have a particular reason to do so. Leave it as a single
partition.

A lot of that is pure myth; common sense will debunk it if one will
think about it. Say you have 256Meg of RAM and an image of 800 Meg to
load. 256 X 1.5 = 384 Meg of pf. 384 + 256 = 640Meg. You cannot load
that graphic or anything else greater than 640 - room for whatever
program you have running. Even with 512 Meg, considering the room
needed for many graphic programs, that same 800 Meg graphic still won't
load. Even your um, ha site agrees with those things being myth.

http://www.aumha.org/win5/a/xpvm.php

http://www.techenclave.com/guides-and-tutorials/windows-xp-tweaks-that-doesnt-work-6519.html

http://www.computing.net/answers/windows-xp/mythsfacts-about-swap-file-optimization/13477.html

The partition on C drive should be 50 mb on a basis that minimum =
maximum. This accomodates the system needs and permits the creation
of a dump file should have the misfortune to suffer a BSOD ( Blue
Screen of Death ) error.

That size depends on which dump you have enabled. 50M should be more
like 200 M but it is a movable figure. Hi/low=same is OK for a boot
drive pf where there will be another one on another drive.
I would not partition your the first drive.

I wouldn't partition anything.
My supper is ready so I will write later about the merits of firther
partitioning. This is another controversional topic where you
encounter two viewpoints.

There are a lot more than two viewpoints here. To get a good look at
the overall picture you really need to exercise your favorite search
engine bei ti google or yahoo or whatever you use.

HTH,

Twayne`
 
T

Twayne

timOleary said:
I am trying to familiarize myself with adjusting the pagefile but my
settings do not seem to be 'sticking'
please review these screen shots and tell me what the settings should
be and what I'm doing wrong.

http://www.postimage.org/gallery.php?session_id=e89fd6a6a3fd4ddb0d54bc48c76b4d58&sid=Pq

finally, if I manage to get the settings updated, how can I test the
PC to measure the improvement?
thanks

If you forget to click "Set" before leaving the window, the settings
won't be "set". Maybe that's the problem?

Twayne
 
G

Gerry

Tim

Select Start, Control Panel, System, Advanced tab, Performance click
Settings, select the Advanced tab, and under Virtual memory click
Change.
Under Drive [Volume Label], click the drive that contains the paging
file that you want to change.
Under Paging file size for selected drive, click Custom size, type a new
paging file size in megabytes (MB) in the Initial size (MB) or Maximum
size (MB) box, and then click Set. Click OK to close the dialog box and
Apply on the next page.

Restart the computer to Apply the changes.

The Set and the Apply buttons often get overlooked.

--


Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
T

timOleary

Tim

Select Start, Control Panel, System, Advanced tab, Performance click
Settings, select the Advanced tab, and  under Virtual memory click
Change.
Under Drive [Volume Label], click the drive that contains the paging
file that you want to change.
Under Paging file size for selected drive, click Custom size, type a new
paging file size in megabytes (MB) in the Initial size (MB) or Maximum
size (MB) box, and then click Set. Click OK to close the dialog box and
Apply on the next page.

Restart the computer to Apply the changes.

The Set and the Apply buttons often get overlooked.

--

Hope  this helps.

Gerry
 ~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I am trying to familiarize myself with adjusting the pagefile but my
settings do not seem to be 'sticking'
please review these screen shots and tell me what the settings should
be and what I'm doing wrong.

finally, if I manage to get the settings updated, how can I test the
PC to measure the improvement?
thanks

thanks DUH.
BTW: reading your dialog on the technical points of this issue is
going to keep me busy for weeks.
 
G

Gerry

Tim

You're welcome.

It has taken more than weeks to learn about the pagefile <G>. My
interest in the subject started about 10 years ago, stimulated by Alex
Nichol a very influential writer on the topic. Sadly Alex died in 2004.
http://www.aumha.org/win5/a/xpvm.htm

You asked earlier about partitioning earlier. This link will give you
ideas:
http://www.aumha.org/a/parts.htm

--


Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments. After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.

Ask a Question

Top