help dual booting with Vista/linux

[guitardude]

Ok, I love Microsoft and all, but I want to have a little fun. I know that
there are live cds for linux, and I have done this but you cant save
anything really that way (I mean settings and stuff). I would like to set up
a small partition (like between 10 and 15 gigs) just for playing around and
showing off something cool. I have tried to find info on a safe way to do
this but I have seen a lot about how an XP/Vista dual boot setup will erase
each others restore points. I am a huge fan of restore points and I don't
want linux to erase mine. Will linux erase the restore points like XP does
with vista? This is my current setup:

1 HDD (IDE) with two partitions:
1st is the windows vista (location 0 in device properties)
2nd is a recovery partition that Sony put on my laptop. (id like to keep
it if I can. In disk management I cannot get to any of the details for this
partition. it just says "EISA configuration")

It's a 120 gig hard drive and I have a 300 external so space is not really a
problem for me.
I would like to put Ubuntu Linux on the same internal drive as Vista. I have
seen on one website that you should not shrink the Vista Partition (they
said this in bold red) and another said to shrink the vista partition. What
exactly is the risk that makes the one site scream "don't shrink"? If
running Linux with Vista is safe and logical then please let me know the
easiest way to get it going.
thanks,
guitardude

p.s. I am NOT trying to start some kind of Microsoft vs. Linux argument!
please just help me WITHOUT blessing or cursing either OS!

 

[DP]

There is always virtualization. If you want to show off something cool, that
would be the thing. You'd be showing off a virtual machine AND a Linux
installation. Way way cool.
I've heard that installing Linux on MS's Virtual PC is a problem because of
color depth. You can Google that subject. There are ways to install Linux on
MS Virtual PC, but it takes some work, I hear (never tried it myself).
So you might have to go with something like VMWare.

 

[the wharf rat]

Ok, I love Microsoft and all, but I want to have a little fun. I know that
there are live cds for linux, and I have done this but you cant save

You'll need 3 partitions on your drive. The first should be Vista.
The second can be linux or linux swap, and the third is whatever's left
If you don't have unallocated space you'll need to shrink the vista partition
to make room, or else partition a new drive, copy the vista installation or
reinstall, and then proceed. It's not difficult to resize partitions but
do make sure to back up your data.

When you install linux to a drive set up that way linux will
automatically create the dual boot configuration and offer you a choice
as to which OS should be the default. Afterwards you can edit the text file
grub.conf on the linux root partition to change the boot behavior in all
sorts of ways.

The linux swap partition doesn't have to be very large at all, 2x
physical ram at most.

 

[MICHAEL]

Ok, I love Microsoft and all, but I want to have a little fun. I know that there are live cds
for linux, and I have done this but you cant save anything really that way (I mean settings
and stuff). I would like to set up a small partition (like between 10 and 15 gigs) just for
playing around and showing off something cool. I have tried to find info on a safe way to do
this but I have seen a lot about how an XP/Vista dual boot setup will erase each others
restore points. I am a huge fan of restore points and I don't want linux to erase mine. Will
linux erase the restore points like XP does with vista? This is my current setup:

1 HDD (IDE) with two partitions:
1st is the windows vista (location 0 in device properties)
2nd is a recovery partition that Sony put on my laptop. (id like to keep it if I can. In
disk management I cannot get to any of the details for this partition. it just says "EISA
configuration")

It's a 120 gig hard drive and I have a 300 external so space is not really a problem for me.
I would like to put Ubuntu Linux on the same internal drive as Vista. I have seen on one
website that you should not shrink the Vista Partition (they said this in bold red) and
another said to shrink the vista partition. What exactly is the risk that makes the one site
scream "don't shrink"? If running Linux with Vista is safe and logical then please let me
know the easiest way to get it going.
thanks,
guitardude

p.s. I am NOT trying to start some kind of Microsoft vs. Linux argument! please just help me
WITHOUT blessing or cursing either OS!

The deletion of Vista's restore points and shadow copies is
because of XP's volsnap.sys. So, no, Linux will not delete
Vista's restore points.

Have a look at the link below for your dual-booting needs;
http://apcmag.com/node/5162/
The definitive dual-booting guide: Linux, Vista and XP step-by-step


-Michael

 

[Michael Jennings]

VirtualBox runs Linux in a Windows box or Windows in a Linux box.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=VirtualBox

 

[guitardude]

sorry for sounding a little dumb maybe, but what is the linux swap thing.
and when you say "whatever's left" your talking about the recovery partition
I guess. So this will do nothing to restore points right? Thanks for your
help.
guitardude

 

[guitardude]

VMWare is free right? I had considered going virtual (your right about the
way way cool) but doesn't it run a little slow since your resources are
being used by the default OS and then a whole other machine. Id rather not
delve into working out kinks in Virtual PC. If VMware runs at a speed
comparable to an actual installation, then that might be just right. Thanks
for your help,
guitardude

 

[guitardude]

Thanks! im glad to hear about the restore points. Funny that you liked to
the apcmag.com site. I was just looking there and got confused when they
recommended shrinking the partition and another site said DO NOT! I did not
read the intro though earlier about each setup being thoroughly tested, so I
will use this guide. It really lays it out plain and simple. Three questions
though: Will this work with my 3 partition system?; In the shrink process,
The "amount of space to shrink in MB" is the amount that will be taken away
from my primary partition to make a new partition right?; and (more like a
comment than a question) one of the instructions says to select the "Manual-
use the largest continuous free space" but the picture shows "Guided- use
the largest continuous free space". I guess I go with the obvious which is
follow the pretty pictures Thanks for your help,
guitardude

 

[MICHAEL]

Just follow the directions carefully.
You'll figure it out.

More info;

http://www.vistax64.com/tutorials/95398-disk-management-shrink-partition.html

http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/windows-vista/resize-a-partition-for-free-in-windows-vista/

Take care,

Michael

 

[guitardude]

Thanks for the info and everything. I'll let you know how it goes (prob.
within the next 2 days)
guitardude

 

[MICHAEL]

You're welcome.

Let us know. Plenty of folks around
here that might be able to help.


-Michael

 

[the wharf rat]

sorry for sounding a little dumb maybe, but what is the linux swap thing.

It's like the windows page file but unix traditionally requires or
at least works best with an actual dedicated partition. That's because
unix virtual memory uses a raw physical device rather than goignt through
the filesystem. So you need to create a small partition to be used for
this "swap" partition.

and when you say "whatever's left" your talking about the recovery partition
I guess. So this will do nothing to restore points right? Thanks for your

Well, no, I forgot about that recovery thing. Hmm, maybe a picture.

You have

|-------restore points partition-----|----------------------vista-----------|

You want

|---restore points----|-------vista-----|-Linux swap---|---------linux---|


(Not to scale

See?

 

[The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly]

There is always virtualization. If you want to show off something cool,
that would be the thing. You'd be showing off a virtual machine AND a
Linux installation. Way way cool.
I've heard that installing Linux on MS's Virtual PC is a problem because
of color depth. You can Google that subject. There are ways to install
Linux on MS Virtual PC, but it takes some work, I hear (never tried it
myself).
So you might have to go with something like VMWare.

To add to this post from DP for the OP:
You can run linux in vmware server 1.04 (I do it on XP as a host with
Ubuntu 7.10), and it works fine except I could never get
beryl/compiz-fusion/cool gui effects to work. If you want that sort of
thing in your linux "coolness", then you will definately want to dual
boot. Otherwise, running a virtual machine certainly seems like it
would meet your needs.


--
Priceless quotes in m.p.w.vista.general group -
Submit your nomination at the link below:
http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/kick.html

View nominations already submitted:
http://htmlgear.tripod.com/guest/control.guest?u=protectfreedom&i=1&a=view

"Fair use is not merely a nice concept--it is a federal law based on
free speech rights under the First Amendment and is a cornerstone of the
creativity and innovation that is a hallmark of this country. Consumer
rights in the digital age are not frivolous."
- Maura Corbett

 

[guitardude]

Just to make sure that you are not misunderstanding me, the recovery
partition I keep talking about is not vistas restore points. It is something
that sony did to my laptop during production. There are instructions in the
help files about using this to make the computer revert back to the same way
it was when it came out of the box (at least software and os wise). Anyways
it doesn't make much of a difference I was just providing clarity. So how
big does the linux swap need to be. Or do I really need it because I have 2
gigs of physical RAM. I didn't think it would be so heavy an OS as to need a
page file when I already have 2 gigs of playground (sorry I neglected to
mention this in my earlier posts.) Yea, thanks for the pictures, I work much
better with visualizations
guitardude

 

[guitardude]

Yea im going for the look good coolness. Thanks for the info.
guitardude

"The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly Known as Nina DiBoy'"

 

[the wharf rat]

Just to make sure that you are not misunderstanding me, the recovery
partition I keep talking about is not vistas restore points. It is something
that sony did to my laptop during production. There are instructions in the

Uh-huh. Laptops often have that special diagnostic/restore
partition. Best to keep it.

So how big does the linux swap need to be.

Yes, you really need it and equal to the size of physical ram is
plenty. I always make mine 2x ram because I'm old fashioned.

I didn't think it would be so heavy an OS as to need a
page file when I already have 2 gigs of playground

Just like Windows under certain (most?) conditions unix will use
some amount of swap space because it allows more efficient use of real
memory. Some unixes use swap space as temp space too, not linux though.
You actually DON'T need it to run but you can expect no swap space????
warnings and some loss of performance.

Here's a good explanation:

http://sourcefrog.net/weblog/software/linux-kernel/swap.html

 

[guitardude]

Thanks for the article! it explains it all very well. I think im gonna go
with just a little bit over 2 gigs. This space needs to be unallocated
right? My understanding is that I will shrink my vista by 15 gigs and then
shrink that by 2 gigs to make the swap partition, and I don't need to forma
either of these (right?). I am running a backup of all my files on the vista
partition in preparation for the big step. I don't know of any way to back
up my restore partition so I guess I will just have to cross my fingers on
that. Thanks again,
guitardude

 

[the wharf rat]

right? My understanding is that I will shrink my vista by 15 gigs and then
shrink that by 2 gigs to make the swap partition, and I don't need to forma
either of these (right?). I am running a backup of all my files on the vista

You don't have to format either the new swap partition or the new
linux partition, but you probably want to choose "set up disc manually" and
use the partition editor to manage the install. Make the linux partition "/"
(mount as "/") and you're good.

I don't know of any way to back up my restore partition

Your restore partition is almost certainly a bootable DOS file system.
Back it up by hmmmm it might not be visible to Windows... You could boot
a Linux cd and use dd to dump it to an external drive... Or ghost the
partition from Windows... If you can see it and attach it in disc manager
you could probably just back it up with a normal windows backup but of course
you'll lose the bootable part...

 

[NoStop]

Ok, I love Microsoft and all, but I want to have a little fun. I know that
there are live cds for linux, and I have done this but you cant save
anything really that way (I mean settings and stuff). I would like to set
up a small partition (like between 10 and 15 gigs) just for playing around
and showing off something cool. I have tried to find info on a safe way to
do this but I have seen a lot about how an XP/Vista dual boot setup will
erase each others restore points. I am a huge fan of restore points and I
don't want linux to erase mine. Will linux erase the restore points like
XP does with vista? This is my current setup:

1 HDD (IDE) with two partitions:
1st is the windows vista (location 0 in device properties)
2nd is a recovery partition that Sony put on my laptop. (id like to
keep
it if I can. In disk management I cannot get to any of the details for
this partition. it just says "EISA configuration")

It's a 120 gig hard drive and I have a 300 external so space is not really
a problem for me.
I would like to put Ubuntu Linux on the same internal drive as Vista. I
have seen on one website that you should not shrink the Vista Partition
(they said this in bold red) and another said to shrink the vista
partition. What exactly is the risk that makes the one site scream "don't
shrink"? If running Linux with Vista is safe and logical then please let
me know the easiest way to get it going.
thanks,
guitardude

p.s. I am NOT trying to start some kind of Microsoft vs. Linux argument!
please just help me WITHOUT blessing or cursing either OS!

You are receiving a lot of convoluted suggestions here that are just
complicating things for you. Ubuntu's install will take care of
automatically shrinking your existing NTFS partition, making room for its
required partitions. By default it'll create 1 ext3 partition that holds
Ubuntu and another partition for swap. All you have to do in this
installation is decide how much you want to allocate for Ubuntu on your
hard drive. It'll come up with a default suggestion and using the GUI
application called gparted you can use more or less of the NTFS drive. It's
really simple. After installation you'll be able to dualboot into either
Ubuntu or Vista with a menuing system provided by Grub.

Boot the Ubuntu liveCD disk in your CDROM drive and you can run Ubuntu from
there without ever touching your hard drive. This will be SLOW, but will
give you an idea about how Ubuntu works with your hardware. When you're
ready to actually install it to your hard drive, you'll find an Install
icon on the desktop. Double click it, answer a few questions and away it
goes. Installation should take under 30 minutes on today's computers. I
suggest that you use the latest version available: v7.10 of Ubuntu, 32bit
version.

Subscribe to the: alt.os.linux.ubuntu newsgroup if you have further
questions about running Ubuntu.

Cheers.

--
Frank's Brain Activity Plotted (watch the red line):
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i4/Astronomy2/PreformanceMonitor.jpg

California 5150 Notice:

All attempts to try and convince Frank to seek help for his mental
problems have failed. The State of California has no option left but
to issue the following 5150 order within the next 24 hours.
http://tinyurl.com/y2y66g

"Yes, I am a troll" ... Frank's friend AlexB (Frankie Boy, let him know
when visiting hours are at the institution.)

 

[guitardude]

Thanks! I didn't know it would do everything automatically. I'm about to run
the live cd and take it from there. Thanks to everyone who has helped!
guitardude