Hard drive corruption puzzler

[Gary R.]

A relative has a Dell desktop with a newer WD 80 GB drive, the 7200 JB model
with the 3 year warranty, maybe a year old. FAT32, single partition, WinME
clean install less than a year ago. I recently removed a ton of spyware,
did some system repair (and education) and installed Norton AV 2003 with
current data and a recent scan, along with spyware detection tools for them
to use. The spyware was gone or nearly so, it always takes a while to be
sure.

Yesterday they had left the computer on, and found it trying but unable to
boot to windows, citing corrupted or missing files. I arrived and checked
the bios settings, found that the second Maxtor drive was not being
recognized, and unplugged it. Then I ran dos scandisk on the WD drive,
which found literally hundreds of corrupted files, along with cross-linked
ones. After several passes, it was able to supposedly fix all but a long
filename error, which needed Windows scandisk.

I then was able to boot into safe mode and eventually Windows, but all the
programs were missing from the listing, and of course many sporadic files
were missing that had been saved to at least a hundered .chk files.

There were no power failures that we are aware of, and defrag and such was
not running while the computer was left on. ZoneAlarm Plus was running and
configured conservatively.

I ran the WD diagnostic tests on the drive, both quick and thorough. Both
showed no errors. Up until then, I'd normally just assume a failed hard
drive. In fact, I lost a drive just like this, same model, 3 months old,
while in use...but it failed without question, all diagnostics and data
recovery failed.

So now I have no explanation for why their problem occurred. I can
reinstall the OS and all apps, but I sure don't want this to happen again.
I'll leave the second Maxtor drive off, just in case. I can't very well
send the drive in to WD if it passes the tests, yet that corruption came
from somewhere. I can't imagine any leftover spyware doing this to the file
system, and no sign of a virus, the files were all types and the scan was
very current. No previous problems except a few times they reported that
the Maxtor drive had seemed to disappear, but came back when they unplugged
and replugged the drive. I had checked and replaced the IDE cable, made no
difference.

I resigned my own warranty-replaced WD 80 GB drive to non-critical use,
because I just don't trust it after the failure of the first. Any ideas on
what could have caused this on the relatives' computer? Think I should just
tell them to replace the drive anyway? Could the Maxtor have had some
problem that corrupted the WD? (it was slave on same IDE). Any ideas
welcome, thanks in advance. Sorry for the long post, but I didn't want to
waste anyone's time with answers I've already thought of and tried.

I figure it's 6 hours to restore the files, updates, etc., and I'll do a
Ghost CD for if it happens again, but still would hate to hear the same
story in a month.

Gary

 

[Trent©]

A relative has a Dell desktop with a newer WD 80 GB drive, the 7200 JB model
with the 3 year warranty, maybe a year old. FAT32, single partition, WinME
clean install less than a year ago.

Motherboard? FSB speed? Jumperless? It'll be hard to answer any
further questions without the above...but I'll give it a shot.

Yesterday they had left the computer on, and found it trying but unable to
boot to windows, citing corrupted or missing files. I arrived and checked
the bios settings, found that the second Maxtor drive was not being
recognized, and unplugged it.

The Maxtor problem could be because of the BIOS...or because of the
drive...or because of other things.

Then I ran dos scandisk on the WD drive,
which found literally hundreds of corrupted files, along with cross-linked
ones. After several passes, it was able to supposedly fix all but a long
filename error, which needed Windows scandisk.

Make sure you run a 'thorough'. And make sure the specs for the drive
in the BIOS matches what the drive really is. You don't need to worry
about this if its set to 'auto' in the BIOS.

I ran the WD diagnostic tests on the drive, both quick and thorough. Both
showed no errors. Up until then, I'd normally just assume a failed hard
drive. In fact, I lost a drive just like this, same model, 3 months old,
while in use...but it failed without question, all diagnostics and data
recovery failed.

When you ran the diagnostic, did you make sure the ATA speed of the
drive matched the speed of the mainboard? If not, you need to do
this. This is often the cause of corrupt data.

So now I have no explanation for why their problem occurred. I can
reinstall the OS and all apps, but I sure don't want this to happen again.

If you do this, DON'T put ME back on unless you really have to! A
piece of garbage...IMHO.

But I don't think that ME is your problem.

I'll leave the second Maxtor drive off, just in case. I can't very well
send the drive in to WD if it passes the tests, yet that corruption came
from somewhere. I can't imagine any leftover spyware doing this to the file
system, and no sign of a virus, the files were all types and the scan was
very current. No previous problems except a few times they reported that
the Maxtor drive had seemed to disappear, but came back when they unplugged
and replugged the drive. I had checked and replaced the IDE cable, made no
difference.

I'd go out a get a couple of new, GOOD QUALITY IDE cables...to replace
the current ones. Its late...are they on the same cable? Sorry if
you already mentioned it somewhere.

I resigned my own warranty-replaced WD 80 GB drive to non-critical use,
because I just don't trust it after the failure of the first. Any ideas on
what could have caused this on the relatives' computer? Think I should just
tell them to replace the drive anyway?

Your call, of course.

Could the Maxtor have had some
problem that corrupted the WD? (it was slave on same IDE).

Ah...THERE'S the answer to my question!! lol

Could very well be...if they're set to different ATA settings. Check
each of them. Personally, I'd put them on different controllers.

Also, double check your DMA settings.

Any ideas
welcome, thanks in advance. Sorry for the long post, but I didn't want to
waste anyone's time with answers I've already thought of and tried.

Yer not overclocking...right?

I figure it's 6 hours to restore the files, updates, etc., and I'll do a
Ghost CD for if it happens again, but still would hate to hear the same
story in a month.

DON'T do a CD. Do a clone...from a boot disk...from the WD to a
partition on the Maxtor. Hide the partition on the Maxtor after
(during) the clone...and use the balance for data.

Good luck...let us know.


Have a nice week...

Trent

Certified breast self-exam subcontractor.

 

[Gary R.]

Motherboard? FSB speed? Jumperless? It'll be hard to answer any
further questions without the above...but I'll give it a shot.

Thanks for the suggestions; it's the stock Dell (Intel) MB, PIII 800, not
overclocked (797 currently) i815 chipset, DMA enabled, both drives running
and all rated at ATA100, and have been successfully running at that for
months. Device mgr is clean and drivers are current. I've had astounding
success with WinME on a number of machines, a couple running since 6/00
release date and still fine, so I'm not likely to blame that either...but I
know I'm one of the few fans of the OS, so that's a different story,
different time...

But...
Your message got me thinking maybe I'll swap the cables even though I've
switched them before. When I pulled the WD drive (mounted vertically as
Dell does sandwiched between two pieces of plastic with holes), it felt
warm. I got to thinking...

Warm. In my office, with the A/C on and the case open. Yesterday was the
hottest day since last summer (they didn't get the drive until maybe Sept.),
over 100, they weren't home, probably had the AC off. Closed case, computer
on, no case fan, maybe 90 degree house, on all day, with plastic covering at
least a percentage of the surface area, how hot would that drive be?

If it got hot enough to cause errors (assuming an overheated drive would do
so), it could easily corrupt and cross link files if it tried to boot and
write to or repair (she said scandisk ran and failed numerous times). That
would also explain why I haven't been able to get a single glitch from
it...it's not hot.

So thanks for the good ideas, which helped lead to what I think is the
problem. I'll see if I can read the SMART info off the drive, if it looks
OK and fdisk/format/install Windows goes OK, I'll assume that must be it and
install the drive in a horizontal bay and find a place for a case fan. Dell
didn't exactly seem to have that in mind, but those WD drives run hot anyway
and it needs some circulation. They have a heckuva CPU fan but nothing
moves air inside the case.

Gary

 

[Dumpster]

| | > Motherboard? FSB speed? Jumperless? It'll be hard to answer any
| > further questions without the above...but I'll give it a shot.
| >
| > >Yesterday they had left the computer on, and found it trying but
unable
| to
| > >boot to windows, citing corrupted or missing files. I arrived and
| checked
| > >the bios settings, found that the second Maxtor drive was not being
| > >recognized, and unplugged it.
|
|
| Thanks for the suggestions; it's the stock Dell (Intel) MB, PIII 800,
not
| overclocked (797 currently) i815 chipset, DMA enabled, both drives
running
| and all rated at ATA100, and have been successfully running at that
for
| months. Device mgr is clean and drivers are current. I've had
astounding
| success with WinME on a number of machines, a couple running since
6/00
| release date and still fine, so I'm not likely to blame that
either...but I
| know I'm one of the few fans of the OS, so that's a different story,
| different time...
|
| But...
| Your message got me thinking maybe I'll swap the cables even though
I've
| switched them before. When I pulled the WD drive (mounted vertically
as
| Dell does sandwiched between two pieces of plastic with holes), it
felt
| warm. I got to thinking...
|
| Warm. In my office, with the A/C on and the case open. Yesterday was
the
| hottest day since last summer (they didn't get the drive until maybe
Sept.),
| over 100, they weren't home, probably had the AC off. Closed case,
computer
| on, no case fan, maybe 90 degree house, on all day, with plastic
covering at
| least a percentage of the surface area, how hot would that drive be?
|
| If it got hot enough to cause errors (assuming an overheated drive
would do
| so), it could easily corrupt and cross link files if it tried to boot
and
| write to or repair (she said scandisk ran and failed numerous times).
That
| would also explain why I haven't been able to get a single glitch from
| it...it's not hot.
|
| So thanks for the good ideas, which helped lead to what I think is the
| problem. I'll see if I can read the SMART info off the drive, if it
looks
| OK and fdisk/format/install Windows goes OK, I'll assume that must be
it and
| install the drive in a horizontal bay and find a place for a case fan.
Dell
| didn't exactly seem to have that in mind, but those WD drives run hot
anyway
| and it needs some circulation. They have a heckuva CPU fan but
nothing
| moves air inside the case.
|
| Gary
|
|

FWIW I read a post yesterday where WD and Maxtor do not work well on the
same cable. The poster said to make sure they were installed on separate
cables or separate controllers. I don't remember if it was posted on
24hoursupport, windows-me or here ;-)

 

[Trent©]

Thanks for the suggestions; it's the stock Dell (Intel) MB, PIII 800, not
overclocked (797 currently) i815 chipset, DMA enabled, both drives running
and all rated at ATA100, and have been successfully running at that for
months. Device mgr is clean and drivers are current. I've had astounding
success with WinME on a number of machines, a couple running since 6/00
release date and still fine, so I'm not likely to blame that either...but I
know I'm one of the few fans of the OS, so that's a different story,
different time...

Did you partition and format both drives with ME, Gary? That would be
the proper way to do it, of course.

DON'T use that DOS version (6.x)? of scandisk any longer. It was NOT
intended to be used on FAT32 partitions.

And, as I already mentioned, I wouldn't run both of these drives on
the same controller. I'm assuming you have them set to 'master' and
'slave'. Put the Maxtor on the other controller.

WD has a 'master' setting. If I remember, Maxtor DOESN'T have a master
setting. It defaults to either master or single drive...which could
be causing the problem (I don't really remember...I don't install
Maxtors.) Put them on separate controllers.

But...
Your message got me thinking maybe I'll swap the cables even though I've
switched them before. When I pulled the WD drive (mounted vertically as
Dell does sandwiched between two pieces of plastic with holes), it felt
warm. I got to thinking...

If you have the problem again, spend the $10 bucks and get 2 new, good
quality cables.

Warm. In my office, with the A/C on and the case open. Yesterday was the
hottest day since last summer (they didn't get the drive until maybe Sept.),
over 100, they weren't home, probably had the AC off. Closed case, computer
on, no case fan, maybe 90 degree house, on all day, with plastic covering at
least a percentage of the surface area, how hot would that drive be?

You can easily run them to 130° F...maybe even a little higher. I
doubt that heat is your problem. It could simply be that the drive is
going bad.

The Maxtor not being recognized is what makes me wonder. Change the
power leads...and mark them, so that you can keep track of what's
goin' on.

If it got hot enough to cause errors (assuming an overheated drive would do
so), it could easily corrupt and cross link files if it tried to boot and
write to or repair (she said scandisk ran and failed numerous times). That
would also explain why I haven't been able to get a single glitch from
it...it's not hot.

Again...I doubt if heat is your problem. I'd suspect the relation of
the 2 drives to each other...and how ME reads all this when the os
boots. Jumper settings?...bad power leads?...wrong version of
scandisk?

So thanks for the good ideas, which helped lead to what I think is the
problem.

Actually, that's pretty much all we do here...give you some food for
thought. That's often enough to get the problem solved for a lot of
folks. The grunt work is on your end! lol

I'll see if I can read the SMART info off the drive, if it looks
OK and fdisk/format/install Windows goes OK, I'll assume that must be it and
install the drive in a horizontal bay and find a place for a case fan.

It could simply be the drive going bad.

Good luck.


Have a nice week...

Trent

Certified breast self-exam subcontractor.

 

[w_tom]

DOS scandisk on a FAT32 drive causes major filesystem
problems. Bad news if you ran a scandisk that only
understands FAT16 and FAT12. Dos scandisk converted many OK
files into *.CHK files. That explains your missing files.
Been there. Also made that mistake.

 

[ProfGene]

If you haven't done so at least advise them to scandisk and defrag at least
once a week and run the anti-spyware often.