Hard drive capacity, etc.


H

Howard Kaikow

I have an old PII 400 with an SE400BX mobo.
3 hard drives, all SCSI.

I need to add a drive. SCSI is too expensive, not to mention, not sure how
easy it would be to rejigger the cable to handle a 4th drive.
So, I need to add an ATA 100 drive.

1. Anyone recall the BIOS restrictions on drive capacity imposed by the
SE440BX?

2. If I buy a 40GB or an 80GB drive, will I be able to ise at least the
first 32GB?

3. Do the capacity restrictions apply to individual partititions, or the
drive as a whole?

4. Currently, I have a CD-RW on one of the IDE connectors (I guess the
master), and a ZIP on the other.
What would be the best config: ATA drive on master, with CD-RW and ZIP on
slave?

5. Yes, I know the ATA 100 would only run as ATA 33, but I have no available
slots for an ATA controller.

6. Any recommendations for drive bay coolers?
 
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A

Arno Wagner

Previously Howard Kaikow said:
I have an old PII 400 with an SE400BX mobo.
3 hard drives, all SCSI.
I need to add a drive. SCSI is too expensive, not to mention, not sure how
easy it would be to rejigger the cable to handle a 4th drive.
So, I need to add an ATA 100 drive.
1. Anyone recall the BIOS restrictions on drive capacity imposed by the
SE440BX?

Pretty low. 8GB? 32GB?
2. If I buy a 40GB or an 80GB drive, will I be able to ise at least the
first 32GB?

Usually not. Some drives have a jumper to limit capacity, that
could work, but only if the limit matches the BIOS limit.
3. Do the capacity restrictions apply to individual partititions, or the
drive as a whole?

The BIOS does not understand partitions, it the whole drive.
4. Currently, I have a CD-RW on one of the IDE connectors (I guess the
master), and a ZIP on the other.
What would be the best config: ATA drive on master, with CD-RW and ZIP on
slave?

Depends on your usage pattern.
5. Yes, I know the ATA 100 would only run as ATA 33, but I have no available
slots for an ATA controller.

I think you will need to find the slot. Actually I would recomend
dropping SCSI and getting both an SATA controller and an
SATA drive with enough capacity.

Arno
 
I

Impmon

I think you will need to find the slot. Actually I would recomend
dropping SCSI and getting both an SATA controller and an
SATA drive with enough capacity.

Unless there's a reason to keep the 400MHz P3, it may be better to
invest in a new mobo and CPU (or an used set that isn't quite as old).
They can handle hard drives into TB range without any size issue, and
most new mobo has onboard SATA and IDE support. Some may have SCSI as
well but those are often high end and somewhat rare. If your old POC
has SCSI PCI card you should be able to transfer that.

I have gotten away installing Win 98se on a 4 year old mobo with
1.4GHz P4 (originally had Win ME). Getting win98 driver was a
challenge but not impossible.
 
E

Eric Gisin

Howard Kaikow said:
I have an old PII 400 with an SE400BX mobo.
3 hard drives, all SCSI.

I need to add a drive. SCSI is too expensive, not to mention, not sure how
easy it would be to rejigger the cable to handle a 4th drive.
So, I need to add an ATA 100 drive.

1. Anyone recall the BIOS restrictions on drive capacity imposed by the
SE440BX?
None for the chipset. Check the BIOS date: 1997 -> 32GB, 1999 -> 128GB.
If you set the drive type to NONE, Windows will use IDE driver limit.
2. If I buy a 40GB or an 80GB drive, will I be able to ise at least the
first 32GB?

3. Do the capacity restrictions apply to individual partititions, or the
drive as a whole?
Whole drive.
4. Currently, I have a CD-RW on one of the IDE connectors (I guess the
master), and a ZIP on the other.
What would be the best config: ATA drive on master, with CD-RW and ZIP on
slave?
HD by itself with good IDE cable.
 
A

Arno Wagner

Unless there's a reason to keep the 400MHz P3, it may be better to
invest in a new mobo and CPU (or an used set that isn't quite as old).

Well, yes. I assumed there was some good reason not to do the obvious....

Arno
 
H

Howard Kaikow

I think you will need to find the slot. Actually I would recomend
dropping SCSI and getting both an SATA controller and an
SATA drive with enough capacity.

THis is an old PC, even if possible, not worth adding more than another
drive.

One Concern is whether a mixed SCSI/IDE system would still boot from the
SCSI. and not mess up drive lettering.
Thanx
 
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H

Howard Kaikow

Impmon said:
Unless there's a reason to keep the 400MHz P3, it may be better to
invest in a new mobo and CPU (or an used set that isn't quite as old).

It is necessary to keep the PC

This is an old PC, not worth adding more than another drive.

One Concern is whether a mixed SCSI/IDE system would still boot from the
SCSI. and not mess up drive lettering
 
H

Howard Kaikow

Eric Gisin said:
None for the chipset. Check the BIOS date: 1997 -> 32GB, 1999 -> 128GB.
If you set the drive type to NONE, Windows will use IDE driver limit.

My sister has the same PC, except I use SCSI and have a more recentBIOS.

When she got the system, it came with a 14.4GB Ultra DMA/33 drive.
So tlhe limit would be higher than 8.4GB

Later, I had her buy a 40GB Maxtor, along with a Promise controller to get
the full speed.
 
G

Guest

Howard said:
It is necessary to keep the PC

This is an old PC, not worth adding more than another drive.

One Concern is whether a mixed SCSI/IDE system would still boot from the
SCSI. and not mess up drive lettering

I've tried this a few times with different systems with mixed results.
Often a computer will insist on booting from the IDE drive even if you
tell it explicitly not to in the BIOS.
 
E

Eric Gisin

Spam Bob said:
I've tried this a few times with different systems with mixed results. Often a computer will
insist on booting from the IDE drive even if you tell it explicitly not to in the BIOS.

Not an issue if you don't activate any partition, or make them all logical, or set drive type to
NONE.
 
A

Arno Wagner

My sister has the same PC, except I use SCSI and have a more recentBIOS.
When she got the system, it came with a 14.4GB Ultra DMA/33 drive.
So tlhe limit would be higher than 8.4GB

You cannot tell the BIOS limit this way, since the SCSI controller has
its own BIOS with a, usually, prettu high limit. Typically 2TB or
higher, since SCSI uses at least 32 address bits.
Later, I had her buy a 40GB Maxtor, along with a Promise controller to get
the full speed.

The controller would again have its own BIOS and Promise supports
LBA48 in its newer BIOS revisions.

Arno
 
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H

Howard Kaikow

Eric Gisin said:
to in the BIOS.

Not an issue if you don't activate any partition, or make them all logical, or set drive type to
NONE.

Sounds right to me.
I do not know how to set drive type to NONE, but I would not activate any
parturition, and some would be Linux partitions.
 
H

Howard Kaikow

Arno Wagner said:
You cannot tell the BIOS limit this way, since the SCSI controller has
its own BIOS with a, usually, prettu high limit. Typically 2TB or
higher, since SCSI uses at least 32 address bits.

My sister's drive is not SCSI.
 
A

Arno Wagner

My sister's drive is not SCSI.

But it is on an IDE controller card with its own BIOS. If the card's
BIOS is current, then it supports LBA48, i.e. up to 140TB.

Arno
 
G

Guest

Howard said:
Sounds right to me.
I do not know how to set drive type to NONE, but I would not activate any
parturition, and some would be Linux partitions.

Certainly doesn't hurt to give it a shot. I disagree with Eric's
statement, at least in part. I've never tried setting the drive type to
NONE (sounds promising), but his other other suggestions don't guarantee
success in my experience (but they are worth trying). Go into the
system BIOS and change the drive setting from AUTO to NONE.
 
F

Folkert Rienstra

Pretty low. 8GB? 32GB?

In other words: you have no clue.
Usually not. Some drives have a jumper to limit capacity, that
could work, but only if the limit matches the BIOS limit.

You can set the limit to any that you want, you babblebot moron.
When will you ever learn.
The BIOS does not understand partitions, it the whole drive.
Depends on your usage pattern.

Yeah, that tells him.
I think you will need to find the slot.

You are a believer and now you are a thinker too?
Actually I would recomend dropping SCSI and getting both
an SATA controller and an SATA drive with enough capacity.

Of course you do.
 
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F

Folkert Rienstra

Eric Gisin said:
None for the chipset. Check the BIOS date: 1997 -> 32GB, 1999 -> 128GB.
If you set the drive type to NONE, Windows will use IDE driver limit.

"Use" IDE driver limit?
Presumably you mean Windows will be subject to the driver imposed limits?
Surely the driver won't use Int13 !?

Shouldn't the driver use what's in the MBR and ignore Int13 all together?
Or even if it uses bios structures to take the values from, shouldn't these
values still reflect the MBR contained values even though the bios Int13
functions won't support those?
Of course it's a different ballgame at partitioning time when the drive
is empty, and either the drive's capacity or the bios limit is used to set
it up, whichever is lowest. But then we are talking driver supplied Int13 and partitioning software using bios calls, not OS(driver)
calls.
 
F

Folkert Rienstra

Howard Kaikow said:
I have an old PII 400 with an SE400BX mobo.
3 hard drives, all SCSI.

I need to add a drive. SCSI is too expensive, not to mention, not sure how
easy it would be to rejigger the cable to handle a 4th drive.

By buying a new one, if necessary?
So, I need to add an ATA 100 drive.
1. Anyone recall the BIOS restrictions on drive capacity imposed by the
SE440BX?

What is important is whether that limit lets the system hang or not.
And even then that can be dealt with if you have another system avail-
able to set the drive's capacity limit lower with than the board's limit.
2. If I buy a 40GB or an 80GB drive, will I be able to ise at least the
first 32GB?

Sure, that and more if you use a drive overlay.
3. Do the capacity restrictions apply to individual partititions, or the
drive as a whole?

4. Currently, I have a CD-RW on one of the IDE connectors (I guess the
master), and a ZIP on the other.
What would be the best config: ATA drive on master, with CD-RW and ZIP on
slave?
5. Yes, I know the ATA 100 would only run as ATA 33, but I have no available
slots for an ATA controller.

If you are content with only 30MB/s then a comparable SCSI drive
from surplus stock may not be so expensive as you think.
 
F

Folkert Rienstra

You cannot tell the BIOS limit this way,

And he didn't.
since the SCSI controller has its own BIOS with a, usually, prettu high limit.

Babblebot, utterly clueless as always.
The SCSI BIOS has nothing whatsoever to do with the PC's IDE bios.
Typically 2TB or higher, since SCSI uses at least 32 address bits.

What counts is what limit the bios and drivers of the *individual* drive
controllers (host bus adapters) impose on the addressable drive capacity.
That's INT13 and the driver equivalent calls. Since these are standard-
ized they are (should be) the same for each storage device as far as the
same call is concerned.
The controller would again have its own BIOS and Promise supports
LBA48 in its newer BIOS revisions.

Babblebot, what exactly did you not understand in :
"When she got the system, it came with a 14.4GB "
 
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H

Howard Kaikow

Cluck! Cluck!

That's the sound of me chickening out.

I just bought a SCSI drive to avoid the potential ATA issues.
 

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