Goodbye ATI

[vellu]

Did you buy it from a local store or a webstore of sorts? I would've
returned the card immediately if such apparent faults were evident just
by looking at the thing.

Mike L kirjoitti:

 

[Tom Lake]

Speaking about fault on their part. Last week Wednesday I believe, I
went out and purchased an ATI TV Wonder Elite. Great card right?
Right.. horrible software? RIGHT! None the less, when I opened the
f*cking box, everything looked like it was just throwned in there and
kicked onto the truck for delivery.

Did you buy it directly from ATI? If not, the store that sold it to you
might have rewrapped a return and put it on the shelf. I've known a
few electronics stores to do that. One time, I opened a "sealed"
box for a soundcard and there was a NIC inside!

Tom Lake

 

[Mike L]

I bought it from a retail store. But the thing is, it was sealed, and
it appeared to be sealed from the factory. If the store had done it
themselves, you'd be able to tell.. it wouldn't have been tight, it
would have been fluffly and wrinkled. So like I said, it was just
carelessness on ATI's part. But to be honest, the card works and
that's all I care about. The CD was corrupted, but I don't care
because the software that came with it is garbage anyway. All in all
I should've returned it, but I can't be bothered anymore..

 

[Graystar]

Sounds like an In-Store repackage job to me.
Maybe it was returned with a "hack job" done to the CD as well.
Mighty suspicious that.

 

[Graystar]

Exactly right. Even ATI is relatively good about RMAs.
It's just that they tend to become unreasonable where a user serviceable
little external bolt or nut is concerned.
I wouldn't judge ATI on such an obvious anomaly as the one below.
I've RMA'ed tons of stuff as a tech and know that that story is bizarre.

 

[Graystar]

Yeah. Could be.
But I can tell you that just about any store now can reshrink that glassine
plastic to a nice taught finish and you just can't tell the difference.
I did some of it myself, so I know it can be done easily.
All you need is the right plastic, a nichrome wire sealer, and a standard
heat gun.
Dirt cheap.
I agree. It's not worth the hassle. Thing is... they know that too.
That's the rankle that bugs. They got their money.
If the threshold of dissatisfaction rises high enough then competitors will
beat them. But their techs are not slackers. They just have a crappy
customer service line that just doesn't give a damn. I've read about some
of the tech stuff and it's pretty cool, like the liquid metal closed loop
cooling systems and other stuff....
but if they get too much of a rep for bad service it eventually will bite
them and they will have to do something about it.
Hopefully before we all tell them to FOAD or because we do and they just get
customers who are fools enough not to know any better.
Things seem to be getting worse that way.
No one enforcing good business practices, no one enforcing existing laws on
the books, no one held accountable...
so why should they give a hoot about whether a percentage of their
"customers" are screwed?
I see no reason or motivation for them to care.
Hell of a time to have to live in, imo.
So it's back to playing the odds and trying to pick the pearl out of the cow
pie. <sigh>

 

[Mike L]

That's the thing, I seriously don't know what to make of it. Secondly
I should've thought twice about going to that store because they'r
known for throwing returns right back on the shelf. Well, serves m
right I guess. Ontop of that, I've never had a TV Tuner/Capture Car
before so I don't know what to expect in terms of it being defectiv
or a return

Actually, I'm wondering if you guys can help me out with something. A
far as I can tell the card works great, and ofcourse a few issues wit
the software itself. The ONLY problem I'm experiencing is low soun
being reproduced when I'm watching T.V. on it. I have just a standar
cable connection, nothing fancy, and I'm using a 75 ohm cabl
ofcourse. The sound isn't 'that' low, but it's low enough. The soun
is being routed through the PCI bus and into my soundcard. I kno
with some A.I.W's that they give you a cable to feed into th
"Line-In" connection on the back of your soundcard, bu
this card doesn't do that. I've tried directing the sound through th
Theatre 550Pro chipset itself, and directly into my soundcard as well
Neither worked as the sound is still playing at the same volume. I
I'm recording something off of a video cassette, or from a videogam
console the sound is strong and loud. But ONLY when it comes t
recording and watching T.V. Hopefully this is normal, and was jus
built that way. So if any of you have some ideas as to why this i
happening, then I'd greatly appreciate the responses. Thanks i
advance

 

[Doug_Dread]

Oh dear me!! Here I've just bought an ATI X1900XTX and am running it on an
Asus A8R32-MVP ATI RD580 powered mainboard for double the trouble! I didn't
realise I was going to be doomed by the horrible ATI hardware and software
monsters. Woe is me, what to do now!!!!??

Wait a mo' ..... I'm not having any problems, in fact the system is
brilliant ......... phew, the doomsday prophets had me really worried
there!!

 

[Mike L]

Well aren't you a lucky little fellow. So you going to offer me some
help or what? If you're not, you can take your sarcastic attitude
somewhere else.

 

[Graystar]

are you running 64 bit software? If you are that just might be the case.
<grin>

 

[Graystar]

The ONLY problem I'm experiencing is low sound
being reproduced when I'm watching T.V. on it. I have just a standard
cable connection, nothing fancy, and I'm using a 75 ohm cable
ofcourse. The sound isn't 'that' low, but it's low enough. The sound
is being routed through the PCI bus and into my soundcard. I know
with some A.I.W's that they give you a cable to feed into the
"Line-In" connection on the back of your soundcard, but
this card doesn't do that. I've tried directing the sound through the
Theatre 550Pro chipset itself, and directly into my soundcard as well.
Neither worked as the sound is still playing at the same volume.

If I'm recording something off of a video cassette, or from a videogame
console the sound is strong and loud. But ONLY when it comes to
recording and watching T.V. Hopefully this is normal, and was just
built that way. So if any of you have some ideas as to why this is
happening, then I'd greatly appreciate the responses. Thanks in
advance.

Just a stupid question to get it out of the way: Have you checked mixer
settings?
There are some that have seperate mixer programs as well as gain adjustments
under the file menu on input ports.
Check that out 1st and see if it solves it.
Then try a better cable or have the cable guys check if the load for your
area might require a linear gain amp that they would have to install.
There are a bunch of things to do. Most old timer Ratt Shack (radio shack)
guys could give you some help if they are still around.

 

[Mike L]

I appreciate the response, and I think I might look into that. Fo
what it's worth, I was reading some reviews on a forum about th
Sapphire Theatrix 550Pro variant, and one guy was saying that th
card was good, except for the low sound while watching T.V. Lol, s
I'm just guessing like I said before that they probably just built i
that way. Then again why? That doesn't make sense because people ar
obviously going to be using the card for mostly recording an
watching T.V. anyway. Oh well, the card and mostly the software hav
litterally been a dissapointment ever since I bought it. I've made u
my mind and I'm taking it back to the store tomorrow. Enough i
enough, I've frustrated myself beyond frustration

 

[Graystar]

With the original ATI-AIW card I had ages ago, I had an Soundblaster AWE32 F
board.
The functions that came with it took care of those kind of problems. One
was a gain function in the mixer.
Since ATI has deemed Win98SE dead for some time, and since I jumped to XP
Pro x64, in spite of the assurances that the card and software would work.
It doesn't.
So I guess it will be another 5 years without a TV.
I refuse to pay for a new TV as I C it as a huge waste given the content.
I also C cable as currently configured for subscription as totally a ripoff.
Yeah, I might go down to the gym & catch a sci-fi show, but that's free.
The rest is a total rip.
So if I really feel I must, at some point I'll go 2x satellite u/dlink and
take my leave of all the traditional connections.
The card I have works as a Radeon card, just no MM.
Perhaps ATI will now release some 64 bit drivers now that we all have been
informed of the "Vistal Slip"... or not.
I don't know about the other card. You may want to check Sharky Extreme or
equivalent to get perf. reviews.

Good luck.

 

[Half_Light]

Oh SURE they do. Just like they still support the old AIW Pro for Windows
98SE.
Doesn't work worth a damn. They obsolete their drivers and when they come
out with newer cards they don't fully support them in the new operating
systems.
Example XP Pro x64 is not well supported and has very bad drivers. Plus
their idea of support is when you buy a card from them with bad dongle
screws is for YOU to buy a new $45 dongle via Fed Ex delivery and YOU have
to go down and sign for the damn thing rather than have Fed Ex just leave it
at your office.
Sorry, that's not what I call good support.
I want better treatment. If I buy a card and THEY screw up, like they did
buy not threading the attachment nut fully, then they should replace the
dongle bolt that gets chewed up because of a defect they did. I should not
have to send my card all over the country to get a replacement for the nut
on the back of my card.
They could have sent one. As it is, I just tapped out the threads. But
they would not send a replacement for the custom bolt.
Pikers!
Not only that, they don't have the media drivers for 64 bit windows XP Pro,
or will not release them. That sucks hard.
Not exactly would you would call a good OOBE.
They have done this time and time again with various clients.
I'm not giving them another chance.

and yeah, goody goody if they off themselves. Jerks.
If ya sell it, ya should support it for what it's advertised to do,
otherwise Don't Sell it for the purposes listed on the damn box. QED.

Saying ATI drivers are crap is a fact. Just shows that the "Old School"
knows what the hell they are talking about.
Programmers of any salt always say the hardware hardly matters.... that they
can write software to do whatever they want.
Hardware solutions are the oldest school out there. As old as early 80's
Radio Rat Shack days.
Since there are only 2 schools, per se, then that makes you obsolete... and
I don't care if you're fresh out of Schule.
Ya been learnin from Dinosaurs, dear friend... and fossilized ones at that.

I buy cards with the most bling, bling and the ATI red looks so much
better through my case window tham the green Nvidia shit.

 

[Half_Light]

Listen buddy, I'm not here to start some sort of childish flamewar.
I'm talking from experience. I currently
own TWO products from ATI and subject to how great they truly are,
they're being held back by "sloppy written" software AND
drivers. You can claim that I'm some sort of representative
undercover from Nvidia all you want, but the truth of the matter is
ATI is seriously lacking in the software department. Can you explain
to me why I was forced to use CAT 5.11 when 5.12 and 5.13 were out? I
had to wait for the release of 6.1, and even still they weren't
perfect. Using 5.12 or 5.13 resulted in my system constanly locking
up. For God sakes, Control Centre wouldn't even open! I have plenty
of respect for ATI, because truthfully speaking their products and
ingenuity surpass Nvidia by far, but what's the point when their
software is holding back your hardware?

Go look at the forums for people playing Oblivion and using Nvidia
cards. One of the suggested fixes is to use older Nvida drivers. I'm
using CAT 6.3 drivers and have no problem with any of my games or
software, and I have a lot of games. You're FOS. Fact.

 

[Half_Light]

Damn straight. I don't care about the nVidia issues at all. That's not why
I bought the ATI AIW.

Most people know that AIW cards are problematic. If you want TV on
your PC then get a seperate tuner card. That way you can use any video
card and still have TV. ATI's other cards are just fine though and not
problematic.

 

[Mike L]

It's all too frustrating, honestly. No other capture card I've looke
at is perfect, though nothing is right? Either the card is great an
the software sucks, or the software is good and card sucks. Almos
every capture card now is shipping with Power Cinema, and almos
every single review I've read has deemed that program as the absolut
worst. They litterally called it an insult to programming. So I'
stuck.. I have no clue which card to grab

 

[Graystar]

Yep. They certainly package them that way, don't they. <g>

 

[Graystar]

Most people know that AIW cards are problematic. If you want TV on
your PC then get a seperate tuner card. That way you can use any video
card and still have TV. ATI's other cards are just fine though and not
problematic.

Most people know that AIW cards are "problematic"? Oh, I don't think so.
I've been a PC tech for years and I know for a fact that most are clueless.
I've been out for 2 years doing other projects, so with all the hype and
reviews there was no indication they would not work with 64 bit.
It's not on the packaging.
Even those who do know about AIW problems cannot assume that the same will
be true over time and every release version.

Your assumptions about the use requiring just a "TV card" are specious.
As for the "other cards", who cares? I have THIS card, and the TV function
was the least of the MM features that I wanted to use.

 

[Graystar]

It's all too frustrating, honestly. No other capture card I've looked
at is perfect, though nothing is right? Either the card is great and
the software sucks, or the software is good and card sucks. Almost
every capture card now is shipping with Power Cinema, and almost
every single review I've read has deemed that program as the absolute
worst. They litterally called it an insult to programming. So I'm
stuck.. I have no clue which card to grab.

Well it used to work right with Win98SE until they dropped support for the
drivers.
Updates to the OpSys just bogged it down to the point of unuseability, then
a final update killed the support.
No driver worked to restore the functions.
It's been years since I bothered to take a chance with them and their
packaging and board review sites gave no indication that it wouldn't work.
This is just all "inconvenient".
If I "really" needed to use the MM functions all that much, though it's a
PITA to do it, I could just slap another HD set in the HD bays and pump XP
pro standard on the system and install the drivers and I'd prolly be good to
go.
As it is I don't want XP pro standard. Or I could check to see if they
support a flavor of Linux first then throw that into another set of HDs &
swap out the existing drives.
I don't want to do that. I have expensive software now that I use on this
system and it's not worth my time.
I wouldn't get too worked up about it, just goto a few of the overclocker's
websites and read about what cards might be good and read more reviews.
Just be advised to check the specs carefully and if they don't have listed
what you need to know, call the suckers and ask them.
Assume nothing and you'll be better off.
So I wasn't as careful as I should have been with this card. So. The basic
video functions as is, so I'm not making a fuss about it, I'm only
responding to you and perhaps venting a bit that they didn't specify the
requirements on the packaging better.

As for the card to pick, make a list of the hardware you have now, your
operating system, what programs that you know require high performance,
then make sure they match... and pick your card based on those requirements.
Again, if they don't say, call their techs and ask with a list of what you
have.
Likely you'll get a good answer. Or you can post to the techs on some of
the overclockers sites, like Sharky Extreme.
Perhaps they can help too.

Good hunting.