Ghost

[Don Dunlap]

Someone here was giving me some info on Ghost and I would like to ask
another question. I have Systemworks 2003 and when I make a bootable floppy
with Ghost on it, I cannot connect with my external USB enclosure that has a
ATA hard drive attached. I check the right boxes signifying USB 2.0 and
after booting from the floppy, I get the message: "ID5 = USB 2.0 Storage
Device" and them the system hangs.

This seems to indicate that the external storage device has been found, but
Ghost can't communicate with it. I have sent an e-mail to Symantic and
received a double talk response. First the Tech said that 2003 didn't
support this option. When I pointed out that the documentation said
otherwise, he responded:

"please note that Norton Ghost 2003 supports creating and restoring images
from external USB drives. However drives connected via enclosures are not
supported. These drives encounter issues while powering up in the DOS mode"

How else can you have an external USB drive other than an enclosure?

I don't understand who Ghost can support external USB drives but not
external enclosures. I questioned that but received no response. My
question is, does anyone else here who has Ghost 2003 use an external USB
2.0 device and can you use it to clone an internal drive?

I have no problems with Windows communicating with the drive and have used
Ghost to clone a drive in an external Firewire enclosure. I just want the
extra speed that USB 2.0 will provide.

On a side note, I tested Windows XP Pro writing to the external Firewire and
USB drives and to another internal drive. The results were strange.

Writing a 16 GB file to
External USB - 12 min 50 sec
External Firew - 15 min 57 sec
Internal SATA - 11 min 36 sec

What is surprising is the time for copying to the internal drive. I was
expecting a significant reduction in time that the external USB drive takes
and it is only 1 min and 21 seconds faster with the internal drive. Is this
normal?

Don Dunlap

 

[R. McCarty]

Your transfer rates/times look normal. Even though USB2/Firewire
have 400+ Megabyte 'maximum' transfer rates, you'll never obtain
those speeds in real world use.
I have a Maxtor 5000-LE external USB drive (Essentially, a normal
IDE drive housed in an external enclosure). On it's best day, it can
only reach a 24-26 Megabyte sustained transfer rate.
On your internal (IDE) Drive, which UDMA mode is it using ? Also
is it a traditional PATA or a SATA Drive. I would use a simple Disk
Drive benchmark tool to test its Access time, Burst and Sustained
Rates. A recent model drive (UDMA 5 or SATA) should have rates
well into the 50 Megabytes or greater.
Try Disk Speed 32, available at:
http://www.geocities.com/vgrinenko/DiskSpeed32/

 

[Anna]

Don: Please see my inline comments...

Someone here was giving me some info on Ghost and I would like to ask
another question. I have Systemworks 2003 and when I make a bootable
floppy with Ghost on it, I cannot connect with my external USB enclosure
that has a ATA hard drive attached. I check the right boxes signifying
USB 2.0 and after booting from the floppy, I get the message: "ID5 = USB
2.0 Storage Device" and them the system hangs.

First of all...make sure you're working with the latest build, Ghost
2003.793. If you're not, I assume you know how to use Symantec's LiveUpdate
feature in Ghost to download/install that latest build. The early Ghost 2003
versions *did* have some problems accessing USB 2.0 external hard drives;
however, that was corrected (based upon my experience) with the later
builds. I've used the present Ghost 2003 version with the bootable floppy
innumerable times to perform the cloning operation with many different USB
EHDs.

This seems to indicate that the external storage device has been found,
but Ghost can't communicate with it. I have sent an e-mail to Symantic
and received a double talk response. First the Tech said that 2003 didn't
support this option. When I pointed out that the documentation said
otherwise, he responded:

"please note that Norton Ghost 2003 supports creating and restoring images
from external USB drives. However drives connected via enclosures are not
supported. These drives encounter issues while powering up in the DOS
mode"

How else can you have an external USB drive other than an enclosure?

The current "tech support" provided by Symantec (at least as it involves the
Ghost program in my experience) is a sad state of affairs. Apparently
Symantec has "outsourced" its technical support and judging from my limited
experience and the comments I've heard from others, these "technicians" are,
for the most part, barely qualified to proved the level of tech support most
users need.

I don't understand who Ghost can support external USB drives but not
external enclosures. I questioned that but received no response. My
question is, does anyone else here who has Ghost 2003 use an external USB
2.0 device and can you use it to clone an internal drive?

As I mentioned above, I've used the present Ghost 2003 version to clone the
contents of internal drives to USB EHDs without any problems. Similarly, one
can clone the contents of the USB EHD back to one's internal drive for
restoration purposes. I assume you're aware that you cannot boot from the
USB device.

I have no problems with Windows communicating with the drive and have used
Ghost to clone a drive in an external Firewire enclosure. I just want the
extra speed that USB 2.0 will provide.

On a side note, I tested Windows XP Pro writing to the external Firewire
and USB drives and to another internal drive. The results were strange.

Writing a 16 GB file to
External USB - 12 min 50 sec
External Firew - 15 min 57 sec
Internal SATA - 11 min 36 sec

What is surprising is the time for copying to the internal drive. I was
expecting a significant reduction in time that the external USB drive
takes and it is only 1 min and 21 seconds faster with the internal drive.
Is this normal?

I haven't made any recent speed tests involving copying/moving files from an
internal drive to a USB EHD. My primary interest is in cloning speed as it
affects the time it takes to clone the contents of an internal drive to the
USB EHD. Using relatively medium-powered processors and modern hard drives,
I've found Ghost's cloning speed (internal HD ==> USB EHD) to be in the
range of 700 to 800 MB/min. Ghost is not a "speed demon" in my experience.
Lately, I've been working with the Acronis True Image program and I find its
cloning speed to be considerably faster than Ghost - roughly about 1 GB/min
cloning to a USB EHD.
Anna

 

[Don Dunlap]

R,

I understand all of what you say and agree. My only surprise came when I
saw the time required for an internal to internal disk write. It surprised
me to note that it was only 1 minute 21 seconds faster than the write to the
external disk. I mentioned in my post that it is a SATA drive but I didn't
say that both internals were. They are.

I will download and try Disk Speed 32 and thanks for the recommendation/

Don Dunlap

 

[Don Dunlap]

My comments inline also

Don: Please see my inline comments...


First of all...make sure you're working with the latest build, Ghost
2003.793. If you're not, I assume you know how to use Symantec's
LiveUpdate feature in Ghost to download/install that latest build. The
early Ghost 2003 versions *did* have some problems accessing USB 2.0
external hard drives; however, that was corrected (based upon my
experience) with the later builds. I've used the present Ghost 2003
version with the bootable floppy innumerable times to perform the cloning
operation with many different USB EHDs.

I have the latest Ghost build. I use live update routinely at least twice a
week.

The current "tech support" provided by Symantec (at least as it involves
the Ghost program in my experience) is a sad state of affairs. Apparently
Symantec has "outsourced" its technical support and judging from my
limited experience and the comments I've heard from others, these
"technicians" are, for the most part, barely qualified to proved the level
of tech support most users need.

It seems as if most tech support has been contracted out to India, The tech
at Symantic had a name that sounded Indian. I have dealt with them with
Direcway and with Dell and they are only reading a script and mouthing
canned responses. I don't believe any of them is really knowledgeable.
Many times their accent is also so heavy that I have difficulty
understanding them.

As I mentioned above, I've used the present Ghost 2003 version to clone
the contents of internal drives to USB EHDs without any problems.
Similarly, one can clone the contents of the USB EHD back to one's
internal drive for restoration purposes. I assume you're aware that you
cannot boot from the USB device.

Yes, I am aware. The BIOS in the new Dell that I have shows USB as an
option in the Boot Drive sequence and am wondering if they have adopted
something new. I haven't tried it because I haven't been able to clone my C
drive to the USB enclosure drive yet. I will try it when I get it working
and see what they are talking about.

I haven't made any recent speed tests involving copying/moving files from
an internal drive to a USB EHD. My primary interest is in cloning speed as
it affects the time it takes to clone the contents of an internal drive to
the USB EHD. Using relatively medium-powered processors and modern hard
drives, I've found Ghost's cloning speed (internal HD ==> USB EHD) to be
in the range of 700 to 800 MB/min. Ghost is not a "speed demon" in my
experience. Lately, I've been working with the Acronis True Image program
and I find its cloning speed to be considerably faster than Ghost -
roughly about 1 GB/min cloning to a USB EHD.
Anna

My only question in this area was wondering why the internal disk to
internal disk write was only 1 min 21 seconds faster than writing to the
external USB drive. Both internal disks are SATA. I was expecting
considerable increase in speed. I have a 400 Mhz buss and 533 memory.

Don