J
Jeff T
Nil said:
I think that's what I'll do. I'm just going to use Gmail when I need to.
Thanks,
Jeff
I think that's what I'll do. I'm just going to use Gmail when I need to.
Thanks,
Jeff
K
Ken Blake, MVP
That depends entirely on how you set up your e-mail client. If you
want to use an e-mail client and have all you mail kept on the Gmail
server, you can easily do so.
So do I, although I use Outlook. But I can also get to that mail from
a public computer by using the web access to it,
I also have a Gmail account, although I use it very rarely. I normally
also get it via Outlook, but there too, I can get to it by a public
computer if I'm traveling without my laptop, or if I have a laptop but
there's no wi-fi available.
I don't think there's anything particularly wrong with Gmail's web
interface. It's no worse than most others, and better than many
others. But there are *many* things about all web interfaces that are
much inferior to an e-mail client. A web interface is slow and clumsy
by comparison to an e-mail client.
J
Jeff T
Ken Blake said:
How do you get to Outlook or OE via the web on a public computer?
Jeff
N
Nil
Of course. But the OP doesn't seem to know how to use the Gmail web
interface, so it's a little much to expect him to know how to figure
out how to set up a POP mail client to leave the mail on the server. If
that's what he wants (he has so far declined to tell us just what it is
he's trying to do.)
Again, setting up secure web access to your home computer is asking a
bit much of the average user.
Of course. But it's good enough for many people. I've tried to wean
some people off web mail, but they find mail programs to be confusing
and go back to web mail. So, I let them be.
And for occasional use/travel/etc. it's just the ticket.
N
Nil
You don't. Those are programs you install on your local computer. They
are not available on the web.
M
Mayayana
| Of course. But it's good enough for many people. I've tried to wean
| some people off web mail, but they find mail programs to be confusing
| and go back to web mail. So, I let them be.
|
I think that's probably the main reason for webmail.
And also the main reason that people keep their AOL mail.
It's downright bizarre that there isn't a definitive
standard for ports and servers. One should be able to
enter (e-mail address removed) and the email program
should then *know* that the servers are
pop.somewhere.com and smtp.somewhere.com. It
should also know the login protocol and port numbers.
Mozilla/Thunderbird now maintains a database for that
info., making setup a one-click operation for many people,
but they only have listings for large ISPs. There simply
isn't any system to standardize or look up the values for
pop server/smtp server/port/login protocol. One has to
go to the ISP website, hunt them down, and then know
where to enter them in the email program's settings.
| some people off web mail, but they find mail programs to be confusing
| and go back to web mail. So, I let them be.
|
I think that's probably the main reason for webmail.
And also the main reason that people keep their AOL mail.
It's downright bizarre that there isn't a definitive
standard for ports and servers. One should be able to
enter (e-mail address removed) and the email program
should then *know* that the servers are
pop.somewhere.com and smtp.somewhere.com. It
should also know the login protocol and port numbers.
Mozilla/Thunderbird now maintains a database for that
info., making setup a one-click operation for many people,
but they only have listings for large ISPs. There simply
isn't any system to standardize or look up the values for
pop server/smtp server/port/login protocol. One has to
go to the ISP website, hunt them down, and then know
where to enter them in the email program's settings.
V
VanguardLH
Jeff said:
You can add an external POP account that Gmail will poll at their own
schedule (5 minutes initially, upped gradually to 1 hour max if no new
e-mails are retrieved from the external POP account, reset to 5 minutes
upon the next retrieval of new e-mail from the external POP account).
Once you add the external POP account, you may see new tags listed along
the rightside of the Gmail webmail interface. These are Gmail's labels
or means of grouping or categorizing your e-mails in your Gmail account.
If you don't add a label while defining the external POP account then
you won't see those tags. By clicking on a label/tag, you can see which
e-mails are marked so.
Why would there be a Send button (for those external accounts)? All you
defined is an external *POP* account for Gmail to poll. POP is only for
*inbound* emails. You never define the SMTP server for the external
account you add to Gmail. You only defined the POP server for that
external account. There is no Receive button because, as mentioned,
Gmail has its own polling schedule, which is:
5 minutes initially
Poll time increased if no new e-mails are retrieved
Max of 1 hour poll interval
Reset to 5 minutes when new e-mail found in external POP account
So if new e-mails are showing up in your external POP account then the
polling interval is 5 minutes. You don't need a shorter polling
interval than that. If Gmail repeatedly polls the account but finds no
new e-mails to retrieve from there then the polling interval increases.
Eventually it will get up to 1 hour which is the maximum polling
interval. Gmail isn't going to waste their resources that you get for
free to poll an empy account. Once a new e-mail is found in the
external account, Gmail resets to the 5-minute poll interval. So if you
don't get many e-mails in the external account then it could be an hour
before you can see it in Gmail. But then if your external account is so
slow in getting new e-mails then why do you care if the polling interval
is 1 hour? You didn't get to choose when the sender sent their e-mail,
when their e-mail server chose to send it, and when your mail server
chose to put it in your mailbox plus you may not always be available to
immediately respond to a newly received e-mail (i.e., it shows up in
your mailbox but it could be hours before you get around to checking
your e-mails and reading them). Immediacy is NOT an attribute assigned
to e-mail. E-mail is not a prattle protocol that requires immediacy.
There is no Send button because you don't get to send outbound e-mails
using the external POP accounts. They're *POP* accounts, not SMTP
accounts. You can configure Gmail to let you specify what gets put in
the From header when you reply to e-mails retrieved from an external
e-mail but you are still using Gmail's SMTP server to do the sending.
So you compose your reply, select the account to show in the From header
(Gmail by default or pick one of the external accounts), and then send
using Gmail's SMTP server.
There is no Receive button because Google decided not to allow their
users to be abusive to their free service by polling empty accounts at
excessively short intervals. If you get new e-mails, the polling
interval will be short (5 minutes). If it's a long time between getting
new e-mails at the external account then likewise the polling interval
will get longer, too.
V
VanguardLH
I will agree with others that you make it confusing as to exactly what
interface you use to access your Gmail account.
Gmail is a server provided by Google. They provide a webmail client or
web interface you can use as an email client. Or you can use a local
e-mail client if you enable POP/IMAP in your Gmail account.
So stop saying "Gmail" as if it defined the interface on how you use
that *service*. I had to assume from the dearth of details in your
posts that you want to use their webmail client rather than a local
e-mail client. What I've told you applies to their webmail client.
Defining an external POP account in Gmail has Gmail poll that external
account for new e-mails there. Those e-mails are yanked into your Gmail
account and put into your Inbox folder unless you move them using rules.
Gmail will put them by default into the Inbox folder. That means in the
webmail client you will see new e-mails to your external accounts show
up in Gmail's Inbox folder. That also means you can see those retrieved
external e-mails using a local POP e-mail client. POP only understands
the concept of a mailbox. There are no folder commands in POP. The
Inbox folder you see in Gmail's webmail client is the mailbox that a
local POP e-mail client can see. Gmail also lets you use IMAP to access
your Gmail account. IMAP does understand folders but you have to
subscribe to them in your local e-mail client. So using POP or IMAP,
you could see e-mails in your Gmail account that were retrieved from
external accounts if those newly retrieved e-mails are in the Inbox (by
default) when using POP to access your Gmail account or in other folders
if you use rules in Gmail to move them out of the Inbox and you use IMAP
to access your Gmail account and you subscribe to those non-Inbox
folders.
So far, no one here can be sure just how you are accessing your Gmail
account (a service). Maybe you're using their webmail client (i.e., the
web interface to your Gmail account). Maybe you're using a local e-mail
client and using either POP or IMAP to access your Gmail account.
Because you are unclear is why there is confusion in responses.
interface you use to access your Gmail account.
Gmail is a server provided by Google. They provide a webmail client or
web interface you can use as an email client. Or you can use a local
e-mail client if you enable POP/IMAP in your Gmail account.
So stop saying "Gmail" as if it defined the interface on how you use
that *service*. I had to assume from the dearth of details in your
posts that you want to use their webmail client rather than a local
e-mail client. What I've told you applies to their webmail client.
Defining an external POP account in Gmail has Gmail poll that external
account for new e-mails there. Those e-mails are yanked into your Gmail
account and put into your Inbox folder unless you move them using rules.
Gmail will put them by default into the Inbox folder. That means in the
webmail client you will see new e-mails to your external accounts show
up in Gmail's Inbox folder. That also means you can see those retrieved
external e-mails using a local POP e-mail client. POP only understands
the concept of a mailbox. There are no folder commands in POP. The
Inbox folder you see in Gmail's webmail client is the mailbox that a
local POP e-mail client can see. Gmail also lets you use IMAP to access
your Gmail account. IMAP does understand folders but you have to
subscribe to them in your local e-mail client. So using POP or IMAP,
you could see e-mails in your Gmail account that were retrieved from
external accounts if those newly retrieved e-mails are in the Inbox (by
default) when using POP to access your Gmail account or in other folders
if you use rules in Gmail to move them out of the Inbox and you use IMAP
to access your Gmail account and you subscribe to those non-Inbox
folders.
So far, no one here can be sure just how you are accessing your Gmail
account (a service). Maybe you're using their webmail client (i.e., the
web interface to your Gmail account). Maybe you're using a local e-mail
client and using either POP or IMAP to access your Gmail account.
Because you are unclear is why there is confusion in responses.
K
Ken Blake, MVP
Sorry if what I said confused you. No, you can never get to any e-mail
program on a public computer. My point was that Gmail and almost any
other e-mail provider lets you get your e-mail either by web access or
by am e-mail program. And what I recommend is an e-mail program
normally, and web access only if you don't have access to an e-mail
program, for example, when you are traveling and using a public
computer.
Once again, Gmail doesn't require that you set it up to use only one
of the two. You can use either any time you want.
K
Ken Blake, MVP
Yes, but I don't expect people here to know how to do anything. It's
up to us to tell them what the right things are and how to do them.
Again, it's easy for us to tell them how to do almost anything, and
that's what we're here for
Good enough? Perhaps, but telling people how to do something a better
way is our job here.
Confusing? Personally I think e-mail programs are much less confusing
than web mail, and if we do a good job of explaining them, it
shouldn't be a problem for them.
Absolutely! We agree completely about that. Even I sometimes use it
when traveling. My point is that it's very much the wrong choice for
normal use, not for traveling.
J
Jeff T
VanguardLH said:
The reason I don't say how I'm accessing my Gmail account is because I'm not
really sure. It's just something I downloaded off the internet. I know I
don't have a local e-mail client set up to work with Gmail and I don't
really want to. My OE and Gmail are two separate accounts and that's fine.
I hope this helps. It would help me if I knew what you wanted to know. I
don't understand this client and service stuff. There's a lot of stuff I
don't understand, like interface. I thought it was a simple question. (Is
there any way to "get mail" in Gmail or does it just automatically come
in?) Sorry I caused so much confusion. I hate to be confused.
Jeff
K
Ken Blake, MVP
I've said this a couple of times, but I'll try one more time. You are
misunderstanding what we have been telling you. Please read the
following very carefully:
You say "my OE and Gmail are two separate accounts" but that is *not*
correct. Its not being correct (and the implications of its not being
correct) is what both Dave and I were trying to tell you. Contrasting
Gmail and Outlook Express is like contrasting your cable television
service with your local NBC channel.
Gmail is an e-mail provider and you can have an account with them. So
you can talk about a Gmail account. But you can *not* talk about an
Outlook Express account. Outlook Express is *not* an e-mail account;
it's an e-mail client--a *program* that lets you get your e-mail from
all the e-mail accounts you have.
For example, I have four e-mail accounts--one with Comcast, one with
Gmail, and two with private providers. Personally I use Outlook to get
all my mail from all four of those accounts, but with Windows XP you
could use Outlook Express, or any other e-mail program.
Please do *not* confuse e-mail clients with e-mail accounts. To say it
once again, an e-mail client like Outlook Express lets you get mail
from your e-mail accounts, *including* Gmail. You don't have to make a
choice between Gmail *or* Outlook Express; you can readily use both
because they are two completely different things.
Once again, it depends on what you mean by "get mail." Mail
automatically comes in to your Gmail server (a computer at Google);
you don't have to do anything to make that happen once you have set up
your Gmail account. Then to read your mail (if that's what you mean by
"get mail") it depends on how you do it. If you read it on the Gmail
web site, you don't have to do anything except read it; it comes to
the web site automatically. But if you read your Gmail in Outlook
Express (or any other e-mail client), which again I strongly recommend
over reading it on the web site (it's much faster, much better, and
much less clumsy), you have to tell Outlook Express to get any mail
that has arrived at the Gmail server (unless you have set up Outlook
Express to do this every x minutes, which is a good thing to do with
any e-mail account you get in Outlook Express).
J
Jeff T
Jeff
Thanks for being so patient with me. You have given me more information than
I needed to know. I've got mail setup just the way I want it, I can get
gmail from any computer and OE only from mine.
As to my original question (Is there any way to "get mail" in Gmail or does
it just automatically come
in?) somebody could have said "Hit the refresh button".
One of the bad things about Gmail is that you can't get any newsgroups, my
questions might seem dumb but these newsgroups have helped me immensly.
Let's look at it this way, it gave you something to do for a day, that makes
time go faster.
Jeff
Thanks for being so patient with me. You have given me more information than
I needed to know. I've got mail setup just the way I want it, I can get
gmail from any computer and OE only from mine.
As to my original question (Is there any way to "get mail" in Gmail or does
it just automatically come
in?) somebody could have said "Hit the refresh button".
One of the bad things about Gmail is that you can't get any newsgroups, my
questions might seem dumb but these newsgroups have helped me immensly.
Let's look at it this way, it gave you something to do for a day, that makes
time go faster.
Jeff
N
Nil
Someome did: me. On Monday, in the very first response to your
question.
Google Mail (Gmail) is for mail. Google Groups is for newsgroups.
J
Jeff T
Nil said:
Sorry Nil, I just checked and I guess you did tell me to do that.
Again, sorry!
Jeff
V
VanguardLH
Jeff said:
Presumably you meant by using a web browser. Again you leave out all
details so others have to guess what you really meant to say, something
a pro troll would also do to drag on a conversation. You chose to
continue being vague in just what you are doing to "get mail". When
asked to elucidate by telling us just exactly what you do to "get mail",
you continue to refuse to divulge that information. So far, and as far
as we know, you're just banging on the keyboard and mouse like a monkey
and happen to "get mail".
When using a web browser, you are not "getting" anything. You are
looking at it. All the e-mail you see is still up on their server. You
didn't "get mail" from there. You're looking through a window (of the
web browser) to see what is up on the server. With a local e-mail
client, like OE, you are retrieving those e-mails from the server to
"get" them onto your computer to look at them there.
You don't "get" OE. You install, configure, and use it. It's a
program. There are several e-mail clients that will run as portable
applications so you could put them on a USB drive and carry it around
with you - assuming that other computers aren't locked down, like
disabling their removable drives, including USB ports.
That would also apply to the e-mails you see in the Inbox folder, or in
any other folder. If you're sitting there just watching your web
browser and new items are put into that same folder then you won't see
them until the web browser's window gets refreshed to show them. Yes,
they could try using meta-refresh to periodically get your web browser
to refresh its state but that also means changing the display when the
user might not want it. If they had a short refresh, you'd keep seeing
the window flicker as it refreshed. What you describe will happen in
ALL folders shown in Gmail and in pages shown at other sites, too.
Hitting the Refresh button does NOT make Gmail go poll your other
external accounts. It just refreshes (repaints) the current page to get
whatever would be its current contents. So if you see new e-mails after
a Refresh then Gmail had *previously* retrieved those new e-mails but
you didn't see them until you did a Refresh (or switch to a different
folder and then back again).
What does newsgroups have to do with Gmail? One is Usenet (NNTP) and
the other is e-mail (POP/IMAP/SMTP). Different protocols, different
purposes.
OE is a combo client, as are many others, in that it supports both
e-mail and Usenet protocols. You indicate - but almost deliberately
never reveal (which is starting to make you look like a troll) - that
you are using a web browser to access your Gmail account. That's an
e-mail service. If you want to visit newsgroups then point your web
browser elsewhere just like you do when you want to visit different
sites. Gmail is one site. Google Groups (http://groups.google.com/) is
a different site.
Be aware that many regulars block, kill, or hide posts from Google
Groupers. Lots of spam originates from Google Group posters as well as
many forgers and trolls posting from there. There is also the problem
that those that are incapable of figuring out how to install, use, and
configure a newsreader and can only figure out how to use a webnews-for-
boobs interface to Usenet represent a community too stupid to bother
with in Usenet. Google Groupers strongly tend to be the low-brow types:
severe boobs, spammers, trolls, forgers. So if you use Google Groups to
visit Usenet then expect many to never see your posts and they muffle
the noise that generates from that source.
If you're going to continue using any operating system then go to the
library and spend your own time learning about that OS. Even a couple
Dummies books will help. There are Dummies books on applications, too.
We aren't here to train. We are here to help.
J
Jeff T
This can't go on forever.
Bye,
Jeff
Bye,
Jeff
K
Ken Springer
Darn it, Jeff! LOL
I was going to email you with two small things that might help you that
never got mentioned. I didn't want to add to the fuel/fire here. But
you don't have a valid email address. :-(
If you're interested in knowing, my email addy is valid, feel free to
send me an email.
--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.6.8
Firefox 8.0.1
Thunderbird 8.0.
LibreOffice 3.3.4
V
VanguardLH
Ken said:
And what are those types that try to harvest e-mail addresses from
Usenet posts? Oh yeah, spammers.
K
Ken Springer
That's why you have spamware, and why I hinted for his email.
--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.6.8
Firefox 8.0.1
Thunderbird 8.0.
LibreOffice 3.3.4