Generic HP 970 cartridges?

[Tony Stanford]

Hi -

I've always paid through the nose for genuine HP cartridges, but a
branch of Staples has opened up near me, selling their own brand of
HP970 black ink carts. Needless to say, they are much, much cheaper for
the same volume of ink. I'm tempted.

Since the printing head and ink cart are all in one on HP970, there's no
danger of an expensive repair if the ink ruins the head. Has anyone
tried other-brand names for HP970 printers?

TIA

Tony

 

[Andrew Rossmann]

[This followup was posted to comp.periphs.printers and a copy was sent
to the cited author.]

I've always paid through the nose for genuine HP cartridges, but a
branch of Staples has opened up near me, selling their own brand of
HP970 black ink carts. Needless to say, they are much, much cheaper for
the same volume of ink. I'm tempted.

Since the printing head and ink cart are all in one on HP970, there's no
danger of an expensive repair if the ink ruins the head. Has anyone
tried other-brand names for HP970 printers?

Consumer Reports did a small test of several cartridges. Generally,
most non-OEM were not a good deal. They either cost MORE than the OEM,
or had inferior results, or both.

On the other hand, the black may be OK, especially as it's the
ancient-technology #45 cartridge. Try one and see how it works with how
you use your printer. It may be OK for general printing, but might show
issues in best mode or similar.

 

[tomcas]

Hi -

I've always paid through the nose for genuine HP cartridges, but a
branch of Staples has opened up near me, selling their own brand of
HP970 black ink carts. Needless to say, they are much, much cheaper for
the same volume of ink. I'm tempted.

Since the printing head and ink cart are all in one on HP970, there's no
danger of an expensive repair if the ink ruins the head. Has anyone
tried other-brand names for HP970 printers?

TIA

Tony

Many of us refill our own but I can't see any problem in buying refilled
ones from a proven source. Staples has always stood behind the products
they sell and you are 100% correct that there is no chance of damage in
the HP designed printers. The articles generalizing about the inferior
quality of refilled cartridges are pretty much total BS. If in doubt,
purchase from an ultra reliable source such as MIS Associates.
http://www.inksupply.com/remans.cfm
I have been refilling my 970s with their black and color ink for over 4
years without a lick of trouble, which isn't surprising since they are
exactly the same inks as the OEM.

 

[Bob Headrick]

I've always paid through the nose for genuine HP cartridges, but a branch of
Staples has opened up near me, selling their own brand of HP970 black ink
carts. Needless to say, they are much, much cheaper for the same volume of
ink. I'm tempted.

Since the printing head and ink cart are all in one on HP970, there's no
danger of an expensive repair if the ink ruins the head. Has anyone tried
other-brand names for HP970 printers?

HP commissioned a study by an independent test lab. The results are available
at http://www.hp.com/sbso/product/supplies/supplies_reliability_ink.pdf and I
have pasted the summary below. The quality varied significantly between
vendors, your mileage may vary.

"Executive Summary
In the winter of 2002-2003, Hewlett-Packard commissioned QualityLogic to
conduct a project designed to test the reliability and print quality of
Hewlett-Packard (HP) InkJet cartridges compared to seven brands of
remanufactured ink cartridges for the HP DeskJet 656c (C8942A), 845c (C8934A)
and 990cxi (C6455A) printers. Using practices from industry standard test
procedures and test pages developed by QualityLogic to simulate real world
printing conditions, thousands of pages were printed and visually compared in a
controlled environment.

The test results stood out for their probable impact on cartridge value in
terms of the overall costs of printing with an inkjet cartridge.

Findings:

.. HP had fewer Dead On Arrival (DOA) and under-performing cartridges than the
remanufactured brands. HP ink cartridges clearly lead the reliability test
results with less than 1% color ink and 6% black ink problem cartridges
compared to 54% of the remanufactured cartridges, which suffered numerous DOA,
premature failures, produced a large number of unusable pages or had other
cartridge-related problems.

The management of dead on arrival and under-performing cartridges would require
increased interventions and reprinting--creating a significant impact on
productivity and general "hassle".

HP has a clear lead in the test results."

Regards,
Bob Headrick, not speaking for my employer HP

 

[Tony Stanford]

Thanks for the replies. I am sceptical about test results published by a
company on its own products. They would hardly publish adverse results.

A DOA cart could be taken back with a complaint, of course.

Anyway, I'll try one.

Tony

 

[tomcas]

Thanks for the replies. I am sceptical about test results published by a
company on its own products. They would hardly publish adverse results.

A DOA cart could be taken back with a complaint, of course.

Anyway, I'll try one.

Tony

Tony
You are a smart person. It is wise to always consider the source. Bob
has consistently helped people with great and straight forward advice
but an HP paid for "independent lab test" is no more informative than
advertisements from refillers. It's inconceivable that refillers
performing 100% outgoing functional inspections could get anywhere near
a 54% failure rate, or that a company like Staples would be willing to
risk alienating customers at such alarming failure rates, regardless of
short term profits. For what it is worth, I'm not in the refilling business.

 

[Tony Stanford]

On Fri, 9 Sep 2005,06:48:02, tomcas wrote

It is wise to always consider the source. Bob has consistently helped
people with great and straight forward advice but an HP paid for
"independent lab test" is no more informative than advertisements from
refillers

Yes, I should have said that I mean no disrespect to Bob. I was just
showing a healthy scepticism about commercial publicity (having been in
the business myself one upon a time!).

As you say, Bob has been a helpful and generous member of this group,
and I have always respected his very informed and honest contributions.

Tony

 

[zakezuke]

As you say, Bob has been a helpful and generous member of this group,

and I have always respected his very informed and honest contributions.

Or take for face value, accept the fact that refilled cartridges have a
higher failure rate, as high as 47% in one test, and buy them in pairs,
and declare victory.

 

[Tony]

Or take for face value, accept the fact that refilled cartridges have a
higher failure rate, as high as 47% in one test, and buy them in pairs,
and declare victory.

The 47% figure staggers me, I am sure there are compatibles and refills that
are that bad but they are definitely in the minority. My experience with
several different brands is that the failure rate is less than 5%. OEM
cartridges probably have a lower failure rate but still measurable. I sometimes
wonder how carefully the list of brands to test is chosen.
Tony

 

[zakezuke]

The 47% figure staggers me, I am sure there are compatibles and refills that

are that bad but they are definitely in the minority

I agree, that seems like such a high failure rate that repeat business
just wouldn't happen. But as I don't have that much experence with HP
refills I can't dispute this number at all. I've only bought one
refill for my psc-950 from lasermonks. It required a couple of head
cleanings to be perfect but aside from that I would buy them again if I
used the HP anymore.

 

[Bob Headrick]

Thanks for the replies. I am sceptical about test results published by a
company on its own products. They would hardly publish adverse results.

The results are broadcast by HP but the tests were conducted by a third party.
Read the full report for the details of the tests they did and how they graded.
They printed hundreds of cartridges worth of tests.

A DOA cart could be taken back with a complaint, of course.

Best to make sure up front what the warranty policy is, in case it is needed.

Anyway, I'll try one.

Let us know your experience.

Regards,
Bob Headrick, not speaking for my employer HP

 

[tomcas]

HP commissioned a study by an independent test lab. The results are available
at http://www.hp.com/sbso/product/supplies/supplies_reliability_ink.pdf and I
have pasted the summary below. The quality varied significantly between
vendors, your mileage may vary.

"Executive Summary
In the winter of 2002-2003, Hewlett-Packard commissioned QualityLogic to
conduct a project designed to test the reliability and print quality of
Hewlett-Packard (HP) InkJet cartridges compared to seven brands of
remanufactured ink cartridges for the HP DeskJet 656c (C8942A), 845c (C8934A)
and 990cxi (C6455A) printers. Using practices from industry standard test
procedures and test pages developed by QualityLogic to simulate real world
printing conditions, thousands of pages were printed and visually compared in a
controlled environment.

The test results stood out for their probable impact on cartridge value in
terms of the overall costs of printing with an inkjet cartridge.

Findings:

. HP had fewer Dead On Arrival (DOA) and under-performing cartridges than the
remanufactured brands. HP ink cartridges clearly lead the reliability test
results with less than 1% color ink and 6% black ink problem cartridges
compared to 54% of the remanufactured cartridges, which suffered numerous DOA,
premature failures, produced a large number of unusable pages or had other
cartridge-related problems.

The management of dead on arrival and under-performing cartridges would require
increased interventions and reprinting--creating a significant impact on
productivity and general "hassle".

HP has a clear lead in the test results."

Regards,
Bob Headrick, not speaking for my employer HP

Bob
Not only did HP commision the report but they hand picked the brands for
the "independent lab" to test and procured samples for 3 of the vendors
through their agents. The report skews the results by combining all the
brands in the statistical summary. Charts 7,8,9,10,11, and 12 clearly
show that some brands are absolute crap and others are almost the same
quality within a particular margin of error. When you get down to the
details you find that some brands even outperformed the HP originals
such as in Chart 5. Three details are missing from the report. One, was
it a blind test in which the brands being tested where not evident until
after all the data was assimilated? Two, were the cartridge that had
signs of visible ink counted towards the DOA? Three, why weren't the
original shipping cartridges used in the test?

 

[Manfred]

The results are broadcast by HP but the tests were conducted by a third
party. Read the full report for the details of the tests they did and how
they graded. They printed hundreds of cartridges worth of tests.

Thanks for brigning in a tad of objectivity, Bob. I mean, this is just like
when Gartner makes an independent stury proving that Windows' Total Cost of
Ownership is so much less than Linux's.

There's absolutely no way anybody can contest the value of those studies.
Unless one is brainwashed by advocacy, of course!