Formatted HD space way less than HD total?

[Tim L]

Hi there,

I use Windows XP Pro 32 bit, service pack 2, Pent. 4 at 2.8 GH, ASUS mother
board, SATA HD(s) and USB 2.0. This is a custom system I built about 2 years
ago. My main drive is C:/ (500 gig), I formatted right out of the box. It
works as expected. The second drive I added (300 gig) was also brand new out
of the box. I formatted it using Windows Disk Manager. I noticed that when
it was finished formatting the Disk Manger told me that the 300 gig drive had
quite a bit less than 300 gigs but I attributed that to the disk reserving
space for it’s own disk management. This last weekend I installed a third
hard drive (750 gig). Again I used Windows Disk Manager to format the new
drive. After formatting the Disk Manager tells me 694.2 gigs are available.
That is 50 gigs unaccounted for. I have looked for hidden files on the disk
but none are reported. Both the 300 and 750 gig drives were formatted for
Basic, single partition, NTSF file structure – both are for data/file storage
only. All of my HD(s) are Western Digital Caviar series with SATA. Can
anyone tell me what I am doing wrong or where the missing HD gig space is
being allocated? And more importantly, how do I make those many, many gigs
available for my storage?

Thank you

 

[Mike C#]

Hi there,

I use Windows XP Pro 32 bit, service pack 2, Pent. 4 at 2.8 GH, ASUS
mother
board, SATA HD(s) and USB 2.0. This is a custom system I built about 2
years
ago. My main drive is C:/ (500 gig), I formatted right out of the box.
It
works as expected. The second drive I added (300 gig) was also brand new
out
of the box. I formatted it using Windows Disk Manager. I noticed that
when
it was finished formatting the Disk Manger told me that the 300 gig drive
had
quite a bit less than 300 gigs but I attributed that to the disk reserving
space for it's own disk management. This last weekend I installed a third
hard drive (750 gig). Again I used Windows Disk Manager to format the new
drive. After formatting the Disk Manager tells me 694.2 gigs are
available.
That is 50 gigs unaccounted for. I have looked for hidden files on the
disk
but none are reported. Both the 300 and 750 gig drives were formatted for
Basic, single partition, NTSF file structure - both are for data/file
storage
only. All of my HD(s) are Western Digital Caviar series with SATA. Can
anyone tell me what I am doing wrong or where the missing HD gig space is
being allocated? And more importantly, how do I make those many, many
gigs
available for my storage?

It's the Marketing Department's fault. Here's the deal: To bump their
numbers up, hard drive manufacturers define 1 GB = 1,000,000,000 bytes.
However, historically in CS we use multiples of 1,024 to define memory.
This means that 1 GB in CS terms is 1,024 * 1,024 * 1,024 = 1,073,741,824
bytes. The OS is reporting the memory in multiples of 1,024, while the hard
drive manufacturer's marketing department is inflating their numbers by
using multiples of 1,000 even. If you multiply the 694.2 number by (1,024 *
1,024 * 1,024), you'll get 745,391,574,220.8, which is much closer to your
expected 750 GB. The difference can probably be accounted for by rounding.

 

[Tim L]

Thank you Mike,

I can live with this, not happily but OK. I am trying to get my arms around
this. If I understand this correctly the OS reporting is the numer I should
be going by for actual memory available where as the advertised number is a
rounded up. Wow, 50 gigs worth of rounding up? I used to have a higher
opinon of Western Digital than I am feeling right now \

 

[LVTravel]

Thank you Mike,

I can live with this, not happily but OK. I am trying to get my arms
around
this. If I understand this correctly the OS reporting is the numer I
should
be going by for actual memory available where as the advertised number is
a
rounded up. Wow, 50 gigs worth of rounding up? I used to have a higher
opinon of Western Digital than I am feeling right now \

Just remember, it isn't just WD that does it. All drive manufacturers do
it!

 

[Mike C#]

Thank you Mike,

I can live with this, not happily but OK. I am trying to get my arms
around
this. If I understand this correctly the OS reporting is the numer I
should
be going by for actual memory available where as the advertised number is
a
rounded up. Wow, 50 gigs worth of rounding up? I used to have a higher
opinon of Western Digital than I am feeling right now \

The number reported by the OS is the number we use in IT and computer
science, the number printed on the box by the manufacturer is the number
used by their marketing department. As LVTravel pointed out, all hard drive
manufacturers do this because it inflates their numbers. Yes, the 50 gigs
is some serious "rounding" but not unexpected when you realize the
difference between the computer science calculation (1,024 bytes = 1 KB) and
the marketing calculation (1,000 bytes = 1 KB) is equivalent to over 73
million bytes difference per 1 GB. Multiply by 750 and you get about 50+ GB
difference I seem to recall that way back in the day the HDD
manufacturers used to calculate using 1,024 bytes = 1 KB, but that was when
HDDs were extremely small (less than 1 GB).

 

[M.I.5¾]

The number reported by the OS is the number we use in IT and computer
science, the number printed on the box by the manufacturer is the number
used by their marketing department. As LVTravel pointed out, all hard
drive manufacturers do this because it inflates their numbers. Yes, the
50 gigs is some serious "rounding" but not unexpected when you realize the
difference between the computer science calculation (1,024 bytes = 1 KB)
and the marketing calculation (1,000 bytes = 1 KB) is equivalent to over
73 million bytes difference per 1 GB. Multiply by 750 and you get about
50+ GB difference I seem to recall that way back in the day the HDD
manufacturers used to calculate using 1,024 bytes = 1 KB, but that was
when HDDs were extremely small (less than 1 GB).

You mean the days when a 10 *Megabyte* hard disk was regarded as huge and
impossible to fill.

 

[LVTravel]

You mean the days when a 10 *Megabyte* hard disk was regarded as huge and
impossible to fill.

I remember those days but not fondly. Once paid $500 for a 10 MB RLL drive
for a KayPro PC compatible system (originally $1250) that had a NEC V20
processor chip in it. Boy did I think I had died and gone to heaven when I
didn't have to put a 5 1/4" floppy in the A drive to boot the computer.
Went from there to a 386 processor equipped Gateway (when they really built
a good computer) that cost less than the original KayPro.

 

[Mike C#]

You mean the days when a 10 *Megabyte* hard disk was regarded as huge and
impossible to fill.

Yeah, back when 640KB was considered more memory than "anyone would ever
need" I was actually thinking about the old 10 MB hard drives when I
wrote that, just didn't want to date myself too much Geez, I can still
remember the thrill when I moved up to 20 MB!

 

[M.I.5¾]

Yeah, back when 640KB was considered more memory than "anyone would ever
need" I was actually thinking about the old 10 MB hard drives when I
wrote that, just didn't want to date myself too much Geez, I can still
remember the thrill when I moved up to 20 MB!

640k of memory. Luxury. I was talking about the days when 4kb of memory
was adequate and a 4k expansion card (costing £~100) gave so much elbow room
as to be unbelievable*. A 78k floppy drive took some filling, but a 10Mb
winchester hard disk (and this was the top end of the size range!) was
positively unfillable. And to run that hard disk, you had to modify the ROM
code yourself to access it.

*And required another 3 Amps of power capability to power it.

 

[JohnO]

Yeah, back when 640KB was considered more memory than "anyone would ever
need" I was actually thinking about the old 10 MB hard drives when I
wrote that, just didn't want to date myself too much Geez, I can still
remember the thrill when I moved up to 20 MB!

Imagine my thrill in 1990 when I ran across a 300 MB ESDI drive and its
controller in a cabinet that came from ZDS when we moved out...it wasn't
new, but it was pretty darn fast and a lot more space than I needed. Today,
I got 300 MB chunks in my stool. (to paraphrase a famous movie quote.)

And before that, I once upgraded the RAM in my computer from 4k to 16k.
Soldered the chips on piggyback style.

-John O

 

[LVTravel]

Imagine my thrill in 1990 when I ran across a 300 MB ESDI drive and its
controller in a cabinet that came from ZDS when we moved out...it wasn't
new, but it was pretty darn fast and a lot more space than I needed.
Today, I got 300 MB chunks in my stool. (to paraphrase a famous movie
quote.)

And before that, I once upgraded the RAM in my computer from 4k to 16k.
Soldered the chips on piggyback style.

-John O

Really want to go back in time, my first job entailed programming an IBM
1401 mainframe in machine language, SPS or Autocoder. The machine had a
whopping 4K of Core memory and with very expensive add-ons could go to 16K.
Was a lot of fun back then. When I graduated to a TI-994A as my first
personal computer I thought I was in heaven with speech, basic and a color
TV for a monitor. Bought the floppy disk drive enclosure and it was bigger
than the computer. Did a lot of programming with that machine. Eventually
sold it for the same amount I paid for it about 3 years later.

Went on to purchase the KayPro. Now, I am sitting at a laptop with 2 GB
RAM, 120 GB internal HDD and USB attached another 3 drives with total of 1
TB of space, hooked to a 22" widescreen display, and am working wirelessly
60 feet away from my router and cable modem using my new Wireless N router
and USB network card. The whole rig cost less than the upgraded KayPro.

 

[Mike C#]

640k of memory. Luxury. I was talking about the days when 4kb of memory
was adequate and a 4k expansion card (costing £~100) gave so much elbow
room as to be unbelievable*. A 78k floppy drive took some filling, but a
10Mb winchester hard disk (and this was the top end of the size range!)
was positively unfillable. And to run that hard disk, you had to modify
the ROM code yourself to access it.

*And required another 3 Amps of power capability to power it.

Oh you wanna trade war stories? LOL. OK, I'm game - I used to have a
Commodore Vic-20 with 2K of RAM and no tape drive/floppy drive. I remember
spending hours typing in programs from the back of Compute!'s Gazette
magazine and then leaving the computer running for days on end, since I'd
lose the program as soon as I turned the power off Hehe

 

[Mike C#]

Really want to go back in time, my first job entailed programming an IBM
1401 mainframe in machine language, SPS or Autocoder. The machine had a
whopping 4K of Core memory and with very expensive add-ons could go to
16K. Was a lot of fun back then. When I graduated to a TI-994A as my
first personal computer I thought I was in heaven with speech, basic and a
color TV for a monitor. Bought the floppy disk drive enclosure and it was
bigger than the computer. Did a lot of programming with that machine.
Eventually sold it for the same amount I paid for it about 3 years later.

Went on to purchase the KayPro. Now, I am sitting at a laptop with 2 GB
RAM, 120 GB internal HDD and USB attached another 3 drives with total of 1
TB of space, hooked to a 22" widescreen display, and am working wirelessly
60 feet away from my router and cable modem using my new Wireless N router
and USB network card. The whole rig cost less than the upgraded KayPro.

OK, I got one more good one for you since you guys wanna roll it wayyyy
back. Back in the late 70s I got to see my first "computer" (no not the
Pong game console) My stepdad was a Chemistry professor at the local
university and he showed me a massive "analog computer" (I still have no
idea how the heck that thing worked) as well as the newest sensation on
campus - a digital computer with memory configured as 12-bit bytes
Apparently the 8-bit byte was still competing with various other
configurations in a sort of VHS-vs.-Betamax showdown. Guess which one
turned out to be "Betamax"?

 

[M.I.5¾]

Oh you wanna trade war stories? LOL. OK, I'm game - I used to have a
Commodore Vic-20 with 2K of RAM and no tape drive/floppy drive. I
remember spending hours typing in programs from the back of Compute!'s
Gazette magazine and then leaving the computer running for days on end,
since I'd lose the program as soon as I turned the power off Hehe

VIC-20? That was donkey's years after the era, I'm talking about.

 

[M.I.5¾]

OK, I got one more good one for you since you guys wanna roll it wayyyy
back. Back in the late 70s I got to see my first "computer" (no not the
Pong game console) My stepdad was a Chemistry professor at the local
university and he showed me a massive "analog computer" (I still have no
idea how the heck that thing worked) as well as the newest sensation on
campus - a digital computer with memory configured as 12-bit bytes
Apparently the 8-bit byte was still competing with various other
configurations in a sort of VHS-vs.-Betamax showdown. Guess which one
turned out to be "Betamax"?

Pah! Luxury. You haven't even lived until you have had to progam a
Schlumberger Valve analogue computer built in the early 1970's.

 

[LVTravel]

Pah! Luxury. You haven't even lived until you have had to progam a
Schlumberger Valve analogue computer built in the early 1970's.

I started in computers back in 1966 fresh out of high school. The first
computer I programmed was the IBM 1401 and a Honeywell knockoff of the 1401
and used it and different IBM systems over the years at different jobs
(1401, 7080, 7090, System 360, System 3, etc.) Even had an old wired board
computer back in 1968, that the government center I was working for, was
being used for communications. Worked on Univac 1500 systems and others
when in Navy. Yep, those were the good old days.

 

[Mike C#]

I started in computers back in 1966 fresh out of high school. The first
computer I programmed was the IBM 1401 and a Honeywell knockoff of the
1401 and used it and different IBM systems over the years at different
jobs (1401, 7080, 7090, System 360, System 3, etc.) Even had an old wired
board computer back in 1968, that the government center I was working for,
was being used for communications. Worked on Univac 1500 systems and
others when in Navy. Yep, those were the good old days.

You guys are making me feel bad about the luxurious VAX minicomputer I
learned COBOL on. I see now that they had already added several layers of
abstraction, like "keyboards" and "electric power cords" lol. The way you
guys talk, it almost sounds like you used to pedal bikes with square wheels
to generate power to run the abacus

 

[LVTravel]

You guys are making me feel bad about the luxurious VAX minicomputer I
learned COBOL on. I see now that they had already added several layers of
abstraction, like "keyboards" and "electric power cords" lol. The way you
guys talk, it almost sounds like you used to pedal bikes with square
wheels to generate power to run the abacus

You aren't far wrong. While these weren't vacuum tube jobs they were the
true 2nd generation systems. I was fortunate enough to be one of the first
in the Navy to have a copy of the COBOL compiler created for the AN/UYK4
(Univac 1500 militarized) computer in 1969. Took it, with permission, from
NAVCOSSAC in the Navy Yard in Washington DC where it was written, and took
it to the ship to which I was transferred in 1970. Used it to write many
programs for use on the ship. No one else in the fleet had a copy for
another year. I feel privileged to have the experience I had back in the
earlier days of computer. Granted things back then did not move as fast as
they do with computers now. I wish I knew as much proportionally to the
amount of knowledge about computers now as I did back then. Back then I was
the computer genius, now unfortunately just a hacker and teacher.

 

[M.I.5¾]

You aren't far wrong. While these weren't vacuum tube jobs they were the
true 2nd generation systems. I was fortunate enough to be one of the
first in the Navy to have a copy of the COBOL compiler created for the
AN/UYK4 (Univac 1500 militarized) computer in 1969. Took it, with
permission, from NAVCOSSAC in the Navy Yard in Washington DC where it was
written, and took it to the ship to which I was transferred in 1970. Used
it to write many programs for use on the ship. No one else in the fleet
had a copy for another year. I feel privileged to have the experience I
had back in the earlier days of computer. Granted things back then did
not move as fast as they do with computers now. I wish I knew as much
proportionally to the amount of knowledge about computers now as I did
back then. Back then I was the computer genius, now unfortunately just a
hacker and teacher.

Unfortunately the ability to absorb knowledge about these things is
inversely proportional to age. When you are young (20's) you can almost
learn a (computer) language overnight (and that includes assembler). You
see a tip or trick and you remember it for years. Thirty years later, you
are struggling to remember something you looked up yesterday.

 

[Mike C#]

Unfortunately the ability to absorb knowledge about these things is
inversely proportional to age. When you are young (20's) you can almost
learn a (computer) language overnight (and that includes assembler). You
see a tip or trick and you remember it for years. Thirty years later, you
are struggling to remember something you looked up yesterday.

In all fairness though, there's a heckuva lot more to know today than there
was thirty years ago.