Finally, MS is doing the right thing about Piracy

[arachnid]

see you're missing the point. MS ,and they aren't the only ones, define
what is theft, piracy, infringement, whatever, to suit their needs to fit
their purposes not what most define as fair. The way you can tell this is
when they go after someone for something its illegal but if they are doing
it then its the law thats wrong.

"Stolen's a strong word. It's copyrighted content that the owner wasn't
paid for." -- Bill Gates, June 2006, after admitting in an interview
that he'd watched a pirated video.

 

[Ronnie Vernon MVP]

Inline.

That's what Theophilus Eugene "Bull" Connor said about integration in
the southern USA.

That's what prohibition advocates said about drink.

That's what pro England colonists said about becoming independent from
England.

That's what the medieval Catholic Church said about the Inquisition.

"It's the way of the world".

As more and more people are becoming computer savvy, more and more
people will opt for white boxes and more and more people will become
aware of WPA, WGA, etc. and, hopefully, more and more people will become
disgusted and change the "way of the world".

Alias

It will not change unless people start focusing their ire on the real culprit's and not on someone who is trying to find the solution to that problem. The overwhelming majority of people who are the most vociferous about this subject believe that they have a basic right to participate in casual copying, buying the product from less than reputable sources, or simply downloading it from a peer to peer source, simply because they believe that Microsoft already too much money.

This is not an issue of Microsoft versus the user, it's an issue of personal integrity and ethics. Nobody forces anyone to buy a particular product. This whole anti-piracy effort could have ended with WPA, but people, instead of doing what was right simply used all of the various workarounds to get past that.

This is also not an issue of false positives with WGA or the user who was genuinely duped into buying a counterfeit copy, there is plenty of Microsoft support and tools available to resolve these problems.

Like I stated before, I don't like WGA any more than anyone else here, but I will support the efforts, and be very vocal when I see mis-information posted about them.

 

[Alias]

Inline.



Uh, it's a software product! I doubt that WGA will go down in history beside the incidents that you

mentioned. <g>

Only as a brief mention in the section about MS going out of business.
You missed the point.

It will not change unless people start focusing their ire on the real culprit's and not on someone who is trying to find the solution to that problem. The overwhelming majority of people who are the most vociferous about this subject believe that they have a basic right to participate in casual copying, buying the product from less than reputable sources, or simply downloading it from a peer to peer source, simply because they believe that Microsoft already too much money.

In the country where I live, Spain, casual copying is legal as long as
there is no profit motive. In the USA, if Big Business said it, the
government believes it and that settles it.

This is not an issue of Microsoft versus the user, it's an issue of personal integrity and ethics. Nobody forces anyone to buy a particular product. This whole anti-piracy effort could have ended with WPA, but people, instead of doing what was right simply used all of the various workarounds to get past that.

And, in so doing, exercising their right to fair use.

This is also not an issue of false positives with WGA or the user who was genuinely duped into buying a counterfeit copy, there is plenty of Microsoft support and tools available to resolve these problems.

Oh boy, just want I want to do, spend my day talking to someone on the
phone in India about how the WGA program is flawed instead of using the
software I paid for! NOT.

Like I stated before, I don't like WGA any more than anyone else here, but I will support the efforts, and be very vocal when I see mis-information posted about them.

Because it's "the way of the world", right? Man, you sure are a sheep.

Alias

 

[Ronnie Vernon MVP]

In the country where I live, Spain, casual copying is legal as long as
there is no profit motive. In the USA, if Big Business said it, the
government believes it and that settles it.

You don't mean "legal" you mean that it is tolerated, just as it is in the US. Nobody has ever gone to jail over casual copying simply because it is too time consuming, expensive and detrimental for a company to prosecute an individual.

And, in so doing, exercising their right to fair use.

This is not fair use. If a developer writes a software product, they have the right to sell that product to make their living. Casual copying that software takes that right away from them.

Oh boy, just want I want to do, spend my day talking to someone on the
phone in India about how the WGA program is flawed instead of using the
software I paid for! NOT.

My point was that there are resources available to solve any of the problems.

Because it's "the way of the world", right? Man, you sure are a sheep.

Alias

No, you would be the sheep in this discussion, simply because you just follow the pack and do what they do without worrying about whether it is right or not. You make statements with no proof to back them up.

We had this discussion, that lasted almost a year, way back when WPA was added to XP. The diatribe, conjecture, and misinformation is exactly the same. Only the players have changed.

See here for some more resources you may be able to copy and paste.

Microsoft Newsgroups
Product Activation Discussions 2001:
http://tinyurl.com/ubuzn

 

[Alias]

You don't mean "legal" you mean that it is tolerated,

No, I mean *legal*, as in not against Spanish law, as in the music
industry taking a man to court over downloading thousands of songs and
sharing them with his friends being legal.

See:

http://www.elmundo.es/navegante/200...6a18a6aa166fe2881ed58b67897c617c&t=1162396616

If you can't read Spanish, find someone who can.

just as it is in the US. Nobody has ever gone to jail over casual copying simply because it is too time consuming, expensive and detrimental for a company to prosecute an individual.

Many people have settled out of court in the lame USA and paid 3 grand.
What planet do you live on?

This is not fair use. If a developer writes a software product, they have the right to sell that product to make their living. Casual copying that software takes that right away from them.

Not in Spain.

My point was that there are resources available to solve any of the problems.

My point is without the anti piracy crap that doesn't stop piracy, these
resources would not be necessary.

No, you would be the sheep in this discussion, simply because you just follow the pack and do what they do without worrying about whether it is right or not. You make statements with no proof to back them up.

To which statements are you referring?

We had this discussion, that lasted almost a year, way back when WPA was added to XP. The diatribe, conjecture, and misinformation is exactly the same. Only the players have changed.
See here for some more resources you may be able to copy and paste.

Microsoft Newsgroups
Product Activation Discussions 2001:
http://tinyurl.com/ubuzn

I don't copy and paste. That's a Carey Frisch thing.

Oh, and please do something about your word wrap in your newsreader.

Alias

 

[Ronnie Vernon MVP]

No, I mean *legal*, as in not against Spanish law, as in the music
industry taking a man to court over downloading thousands of songs and
sharing them with his friends being legal.

See:

http://www.elmundo.es/navegante/200...6a18a6aa166fe2881ed58b67897c617c&t=1162396616

If you can't read Spanish, find someone who can.

Were discussing software, not music. The difference is that there are thousands of music files, with software you only download it one time. I doubt that anyone has ever been prosecuted for downloading one music file.

Many people have settled out of court in the lame USA and paid 3 grand.
What planet do you live on?

Again, you're trying to change the subject from software to music.

Not in Spain.

So, do the people in Spain not have to activate their copies of Windows? Preventing casual copying then must be commiting an illegal act?

To which statements are you referring?

Your entire diatribe. If it is Microsoft or any other established successful business, then it must be wrong. They must be responsible for all of the worlds ills. You're convinced that something is wrong, but you're perplexed as to what it is or how to solve the problems. You actually think that it is wrong if someone is trying to protect their own intellectual property.

I don't copy and paste. That's a Carey Frisch thing.

At least he tries to help people.

Oh, and please do something about your word wrap in your newsreader.

I don't see any problems with word wrap here? Must be your software?

 

[Alias]

Were discussing software, not music. The difference is that there are thousands of music files, with software you only download it one time. I doubt that anyone has ever been prosecuted for downloading one music file.

No, we're discussing piracy and, last I checked, MP3s *are* software.
And, if you read the article, you will see it applies to all downloads
and sharing those downloads.

Again, you're trying to change the subject from software to music.

You're not getting the point. Fair use is fair use is fair use.

So, do the people in Spain not have to activate their copies of Windows? Preventing casual copying then must be commiting an illegal act?

If you copy, crack or sit on software (be it photo editing, MP3s, or an
OS) and sing the blues in the privacy of your home and there is no
profit motive, it is legal.

Your entire diatribe.

How specific.

If it is Microsoft or any other established successful business, then
it must be wrong.

Um, I didn't say that.

They must be responsible for all of the worlds ills.

I didn't say that either.

You're convinced that something is wrong, but you're perplexed as to
what it is or how to solve the problems. You actually think that it is
wrong if someone is trying to protect their own intellectual property.

I didn't say that either. You're batting average isn't doing very well
today.

At least he tries to help people.

Actually, he does the opposite, especially when he recommends that the
solution is to buy a full, retail copy of Windows. He's 100% behind
WPA/WGA/WGAN and *anything* MS might want to do. He's helping and
fawning over MS, not the posters.

I don't see any problems with word wrap here? Must be your software?

I sure do and you're the only one so it's not my software but yours.

Alias

 

[arachnid]

You're not getting the point. Fair use is fair use is fair use.

You guys may be arguing different concepts of fair use. Europe's laws tend
to favor the consumer more than in the corporatist US, and their concept
of fair use is broader.

Having said that, fair use of commercial copyrighted products should not
include broadcasting it to the whole world. That's what copyright is, a
right to copy for use by others. IMO that is a fair restriction and the
ONLY one that should be allowed under the law. Arbitrary licensing
restrictions and the use of technical means to limit use of the product
should both be illegal.

 

[caver1]

You guys may be arguing different concepts of fair use. Europe's laws tend
to favor the consumer more than in the corporatist US, and their concept
of fair use is broader.

Having said that, fair use of commercial copyrighted products should not
include broadcasting it to the whole world. That's what copyright is, a
right to copy for use by others. IMO that is a fair restriction and the
ONLY one that should be allowed under the law. Arbitrary licensing
restrictions and the use of technical means to limit use of the product
should both be illegal.

That is the point I was making previously. One one hand MS argues that
their using no software should be patentable you should only be able to
copywrite it. So they still took it. So they are still quilty. They
argue on one hand that their copywrites should be enforced everywhere in
the world but those whose they want to take. Then in another place (MS
and Novell) they say that they will make sure that their patents will be
enforced. What else do they have except software patents. Its like DDT,
can't be sold in the US because it is so dangerous but US companies can
manufacture it here and sell it elsewhere and then claim they are
benefiting all of mankind. If it is law then it has to apply to all
whether individual or business or gov't equally and everywhere.
And no if you read my previous post I am not anti MS. Most all business
and gov't do this.

 

[Bob I]

That is the point I was making previously. One one hand MS argues that
their using no software should be patentable you should only be able to
copywrite it. So they still took it. So they are still quilty. They
argue on one hand that their copywrites should be enforced everywhere in
the world but those whose they want to take. Then in another place (MS
and Novell) they say that they will make sure that their patents will be
enforced. What else do they have except software patents. Its like DDT,
can't be sold in the US because it is so dangerous but US companies can
manufacture it here and sell it elsewhere and then claim they are
benefiting all of mankind. If it is law then it has to apply to all
whether individual or business or gov't equally and everywhere.
And no if you read my previous post I am not anti MS. Most all business
and gov't do this.

As with your confusion between Piracy and Patent infrigment. DDT is not
"DANGEROUS", again PLEASE get informed before attempting to post.
http://www.epa.gov/history/topics/ddt/01.htm

 

[TrollFoodDispenser]

Show me where MS has been identified as a "Pirate" in any court RULING.
If you can't then your statement is false. You made that statement, now
back it up with some factual information.

Leythos proving he does not know the difference between opinion and fact.

 

[TrollFoodDispenser]

What was that thing involving Apple and Xerox all about?

Alias

Dang, you are good!