Final Questions before upgrading to Vista

[will_s]

1/ I have Vista SP2 and will do a format and clean install of Vista Home
Premium Upgrade Edition. Now I am pretty sure that Vista will ask for the XP
DVD to verify the upgrade and not make you install XP 1st ?


2/ I see advertised in Australia ia an Acdemic Home Premium Version of Vista
in a Computer Mag for quite a bit cheaper. Is this similar to XP Academic
ie. pretty much available to anyone but business users

3/ How many times can you install Vista and get it registered over the net ?
As I like playing around with my computer can you ring Microsoft to register
your copy again after you pass the limit of installations ?


4/ I have WinXP OEM Home Edition disc ( also have Pro version ) . Is it
possible to upgrade the OEM version to Vista Home Edition Premium ?
Basically I want to keep XP Pro on a different machine instead of Home OEM
version that is on it.

 

[Rock]

1/ I have Vista SP2 and will do a format and clean install of Vista Home
Premium Upgrade Edition. Now I am pretty sure that Vista will ask for the
XP DVD to verify the upgrade and not make you install XP 1st ?

I think you mean you have XP SP2. Is it Pro or Home? Also XP comes on a
CD, not a DVD. It's Vista that comes on a DVD.

No, you are incorrect. This has been changed from the process to upgrade to
XP. To use a Vista upgrade edition, XP must be installed, activated and
genuine. The upgrade is started from the XP desktop. If you have XP Home
then from the XP desktop you can do either an in place upgrade or a custom
install. If you have XP Pro you can only do a custom install, but still
started from the XP Pro desktop.

2/ I see advertised in Australia ia an Acdemic Home Premium Version of
Vista in a Computer Mag for quite a bit cheaper. Is this similar to XP
Academic ie. pretty much available to anyone but business users

Sorry I don't know about this edition

3/ How many times can you install Vista and get it registered over the net
? As I like playing around with my computer can you ring Microsoft to
register your copy again after you pass the limit of installations ?

You can install Vista as many times as you want. Depending on how
frequently you do this, it may at some point require a phone call to
activate.

4/ I have WinXP OEM Home Edition disc ( also have Pro version ) . Is it
possible to upgrade the OEM version to Vista Home Edition Premium ?
Basically I want to keep XP Pro on a different machine instead of Home OEM
version that is on it.

Yes, but as I said above, the OS has to be installed, activated and
genuine, and at the SP2 level if you want to do an in place upgrade. I
don't think we have definitive evidence whether it needs to be at the SP2
level to do a custom install. The license for the OS used as the basis for
the upgrade is subsumed into the Vista license so that copy of XP can't be
installed anywhere else while Vista is installed.

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

1. No. Vista upgrade editions only check for installed copies of Windows.
No more shiny media check.

3. There is no limit on the number of times you can reinstall on the same
machine. You may be required to use phone activation if you reactivate an
excessive number of times in a short period. I assume you mean activation
because regisration is irrelevant.

4. XP Home must be installed and activated in order to be used for the
upgrade to Vista.

If XP Pro is now on the computer and is a retail copy and you want to save
it for transfer to another computer and use XP Home for the upgrade, you
will need to do a clean install XP Home on the computer before using it for
the upgrade to Vista.

 

[will_s]

I think you mean you have XP SP2. Is it Pro or Home? Also XP comes on a
CD, not a DVD. It's Vista that comes on a DVD.

I have SP2 Pro . This site
http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/winvista_upgrade.asp
states that from SP2 Pro I cant go to Home Premium as an upgrade option ?
This sounds stupid and doesnt make sense

No, you are incorrect. This has been changed from the process to upgrade
to XP. To use a Vista upgrade edition, XP must be installed, activated
and genuine. The upgrade is started from the XP desktop. If you have XP
Home then from the XP desktop you can do either an in place upgrade or a
custom install. If you have XP Pro you can only do a custom install, but
still started from the XP Pro desktop.

So you are saying that if I have a hard drive crash I would have to install
XP 1st, then install Vista after that ?


Now if both of the above are true then it may be a good reason to say away
from Vista

Sorry I don't know about this edition


You can install Vista as many times as you want. Depending on how
frequently you do this, it may at some point require a phone call to
activate.

There is just so much confusion with different stories out on the web

Yes, but as I said above, the OS has to be installed, activated and
genuine, and at the SP2 level if you want to do an in place upgrade. I
don't think we have definitive evidence whether it needs to be at the SP2
level to do a custom install. The license for the OS used as the basis
for the upgrade is subsumed into the Vista license so that copy of XP
can't be installed anywhere else while Vista is installed.

Ok, so if I put XP OEM Home Edition back on this computer ( and this
computer is the one that came with the OEM XP ) I can then do an upgrade to
XP Vista Premium Edition at the end of this month. That way I will have XP
Pro SP2 that I can use. Hopefully these statements are correct.


btw: thanks for your help


Will

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

Inline

I have SP2 Pro . This site
http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/winvista_upgrade.asp
states that from SP2 Pro I cant go to Home Premium as an upgrade option ?
This sounds stupid and doesnt make sense

XP Pro has functionalities that XP MCE does not. Vista Home Premium is
functionaly equivalent to XP MCE so going from XP Pro to Vista Home Premium
is a "downgrade" meaning that there would be a loss of functionality. There
are a lot of elements that Setup just would not be able to sort out. If an
XP Pro machine is a member of a domain, what is Setup to do with the user
profile since VHP can't join a domain? And so on.

So you are saying that if I have a hard drive crash I would have to
install XP 1st, then install Vista after that ?

Either that or buy a full edition. Otherwise, consider using an image
backup made right after you have Vista set up the first time and restore
back to that if needed.

Ok, so if I put XP OEM Home Edition back on this computer ( and this
computer is the one that came with the OEM XP ) I can then do an upgrade
to XP Vista Premium Edition at the end of this month. That way I will
have XP Pro SP2 that I can use. Hopefully these statements are correct.

As long as the XP Pro is a retail edition, yes.

 

[will_s]

Inline
XP Pro has functionalities that XP MCE does not. Vista Home Premium is
functionaly equivalent to XP MCE so going from XP Pro to Vista Home
Premium is a "downgrade" meaning that there would be a loss of
functionality. There are a lot of elements that Setup just would not be
able to sort out. If an XP Pro machine is a member of a domain, what is
Setup to do with the user profile since VHP can't join a domain? And so
on.

Yet if they let you use the CD as verification then this problem wouldnt
happen.

Either that or buy a full edition. Otherwise, consider using an image
backup made right after you have Vista set up the first time and restore
back to that if needed.

As long as the XP Pro is a retail edition, yes.

So much conflicting information out there. This one from a site that is
suppose to be pretty good

http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/winvista_03.asp

"Clean install. With this method, you boot the PC from the Windows Vista
install DVD, run interactive Setup, format the PC's hard drive, and install
Windows Vista as the only OS. This is probably the rarest way to get Vista
on a PC. You can use a "Full" or "Upgrade" retail version of Windows Vista
to perform a clean install, though you will need "qualifying
media"--typically a Windows XP or 2000 CD that proves you qualify for the
Upgrade version."

Now I am not a computer novice but this is confusing. I can see a lot of
cranky people out there when Vista comes out.

 

[Conor]

1/ I have Vista SP2 and will do a format and clean install of Vista Home
Premium Upgrade Edition. Now I am pretty sure that Vista will ask for the XP
DVD to verify the upgrade and not make you install XP 1st ?


2/ I see advertised in Australia ia an Acdemic Home Premium Version of Vista
in a Computer Mag for quite a bit cheaper. Is this similar to XP Academic
ie. pretty much available to anyone but business users

3/ How many times can you install Vista and get it registered over the net ?
As I like playing around with my computer can you ring Microsoft to register
your copy again after you pass the limit of installations ?


4/ I have WinXP OEM Home Edition disc ( also have Pro version ) . Is it
possible to upgrade the OEM version to Vista Home Edition Premium ?
Basically I want to keep XP Pro on a different machine instead of Home OEM
version that is on it.

1) With the Upgrade versions, the previous OS must be installed and
activated.

2) Available to anyone who is a student or anyone with kids at school.

3) As many times as you want on the same PC.

4) If you've installed XP Home and activated it first, yes.

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

Yet if they let you use the CD as verification then this problem wouldnt

happen.

What has the cd to do with it? It is not a matter of not being able to
downgrade because of some authentication issue. All a shiny media check did
in XP was verify that certain key files were present on the media. Setup
didn't run anything on the cd, it just took a look to see if the files that
define Windows were present.

It is because the bits won't work. They just won't. Think back to when XP
came out. You could not upgrade from Windows 2000 Pro to XP Home. If you
had Windows 2000 Pro you could only upgrade to XP Pro. It wasn't some
stupid decision by the marketing dept. It was the fact that MS cannot
guarantee that an upgrade would even work right since Windows 2000 Pro has
software in it for use on networks and other business uses that XP Home
doesn't.

The same going from XP Pro to VHP. The lack of some functionality in VHP
that XP Pro supports means that the editions simply cannot mesh. Therefore
you have to do a custom install of VHP. You can use an upgrade edition to
do it but you can't use the upgrade functionality. Only custom.

"will

So much conflicting information out there. This one from a site that is
suppose to be pretty good

http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/winvista_03.asp

"Clean install. With this method, you boot the PC from the Windows Vista
install DVD, run interactive Setup, format the PC's hard drive, and
install Windows Vista as the only OS. This is probably the rarest way to
get Vista on a PC. You can use a "Full" or "Upgrade" retail version of
Windows Vista to perform a clean install, though you will need "qualifying
media"--typically a Windows XP or 2000 CD that proves you qualify for the
Upgrade version."

Now I am not a computer novice but this is confusing. I can see a lot of
cranky people out there when Vista comes out.

This info is wrong. If you are using a 32bit upgrade edition you must run
it from the legacy desktop. You cannot format the system partition of a
running OS so any edition of Vista that requires launching from the legacy
desktop would not permit you to format the system drive and that would be
the one you are upgrading or you are not doing an upgrade in the first
place.

Only the 64bit upgrade editions permit you to run upgrade or custom installs
without running from the legacy desktops.

Also, Paul is not using "clean install" the way MS uses the term but is
using it the way most users do, and that is that a reformat is involved.
When you see "clean" on the Vista Get Ready page and elsewhere it does NOT
mean that a reformat is part of the process. It might be but it often
cannot be.

 

[Rock]

Responses inline:

"Rock" wrote

I have SP2 Pro . This site
http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/winvista_upgrade.asp
states that from SP2 Pro I cant go to Home Premium as an upgrade option ?
This sounds stupid and doesnt make sense

That is correct. Just as with upgrades to XP: not all OS's which qualified
for purchasing an upgrade edition could be upgraded to XP - some needed a
clean install. You couldn't upgrade Windows 2000 to XP Home. Also owning
windows 95 qualified you to use the upgrade edition, but you couldn't
upgrade 95 to any flavor of XP, it had to be an clean install. This was a
technology issue, same as with certain upgrade paths from XP to Vista.
Depending on the version of XP you have and what version of Vista you want
to go to, the in place upgrade might not be possible.

So you are saying that if I have a hard drive crash I would have to
install XP 1st, then install Vista after that ?

Yes if you want to use the upgrade edition. Another option is to create an
image of the drive after Vista was first installed, or at any time along the
way, and restore that image after a crash. I think imaging software is
essential and some versions of Vista come with Complete PC Backup which is
imaging. Acronis True Image 10 works fine in Vista.

Your other option is to buy a full version, which can do either an in place
upgrade (XP must be installed) or a custom installation where an the XP OS
doesn't need to be installed

Now if both of the above are true then it may be a good reason to say away
from Vista

Your choice but I don't think you're using good logic or common sense here.

There is just so much confusion with different stories out on the web


Ok, so if I put XP OEM Home Edition back on this computer ( and this
computer is the one that came with the OEM XP ) I can then do an upgrade
to XP Vista Premium Edition at the end of this month. That way I will
have XP Pro SP2 that I can use. Hopefully these statements are correct.

Yes. The installation has to be activated and genuine, and for an in place
upgrade it has to be at the SP2 level.

btw: thanks for your help

You're welcome.

 

[will_s]

What has the cd to do with it? It is not a matter of not being able to
downgrade because of some authentication issue. All a shiny media check
did in XP was verify that certain key files were present on the media.
Setup didn't run anything on the cd, it just took a look to see if the
files that define Windows were present.

It is because the bits won't work. They just won't. Think back to when
XP came out. You could not upgrade from Windows 2000 Pro to XP Home. If
you had Windows 2000 Pro you could only upgrade to XP Pro. It wasn't some
stupid decision by the marketing dept. It was the fact that MS cannot
guarantee that an upgrade would even work right since Windows 2000 Pro has
software in it for use on networks and other business uses that XP Home
doesn't.

The same going from XP Pro to VHP. The lack of some functionality in VHP
that XP Pro supports means that the editions simply cannot mesh.
Therefore you have to do a custom install of VHP. You can use an upgrade
edition to do it but you can't use the upgrade functionality. Only
custom.

"will
This info is wrong. If you are using a 32bit upgrade edition you must run
it from the legacy desktop. You cannot format the system partition of a
running OS so any edition of Vista that requires launching from the legacy
desktop would not permit you to format the system drive and that would be
the one you are upgrading or you are not doing an upgrade in the first
place.

Only the 64bit upgrade editions permit you to run upgrade or custom
installs without running from the legacy desktops.

Also, Paul is not using "clean install" the way MS uses the term but is
using it the way most users do, and that is that a reformat is involved.
When you see "clean" on the Vista Get Ready page and elsewhere it does NOT
mean that a reformat is part of the process. It might be but it often
cannot be.

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/getready/upgradeinfo.mspx


According to this chart you can upgrade to either of the Home versions from
XP Pro.

 

[Jane C]

Yes, you can, but you have to do a clean (custom) install.
[/QUOTE]

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

The Upgrade Matrix shows you that Windows 2000, XP, and XP Pro x64 all
qualify for upgrade pricing to Vista.

The green dots are the scenarios in which you can perform either a custom or
upgrade install.

The yellow dots are the scenarios in which you can only do a custom install.

The intersections of both Vista Home Basic and Vista Home Premium with XP
Pro are yellow. Therefore you cannot do an upgrade-in-place from XP Pro to
any Home edition.

Please don't confuse 'qualifying to use an upgrade edition' with 'performing
an upgrade' (as in upgrade the bits).

 

[will_s]

The Upgrade Matrix shows you that Windows 2000, XP, and XP Pro x64 all
qualify for upgrade pricing to Vista.

The green dots are the scenarios in which you can perform either a custom
or upgrade install.

The yellow dots are the scenarios in which you can only do a custom
install.

The intersections of both Vista Home Basic and Vista Home Premium with XP
Pro are yellow. Therefore you cannot do an upgrade-in-place from XP Pro
to any Home edition.

Please don't confuse 'qualifying to use an upgrade edition' with
'performing an upgrade' (as in upgrade the bits).

so what is a custom install ?

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

Removal of files to windows.old, laying down the Windows image file,
registration of components and installation of drivers, etc.

Old files, settings, and apps are not retained.