Fans etc.

[Bonj]

Hello
I have ordered a AMD Athlon 64 2800+ 1.8GHz chip and an Elite K8M800-M2 Skt
754 motherboard for it, with the intention of building up a 64-bit machine
for general stuff like games, programming etc. I've also ordered a fairly
cheap (but powerful - 500W) power supply off ebuyer for it.

Apparently the chip comes with a heatsink and fan. The power supply is the
cheapest 500W one on ebuyer, but it comes with "dual fans".

Question really, is does anybody reckon I should have any worries about this
configuration, and should I be thinking about getting any extra fans/cooling
systems etc.? If so what sort, where to put them, etc.?

 

[String]

If you buy Cheap you buy twice!
A fool and his money!
You get what you pay for!

ESC is now 100% PC-Chips (someone has to be at the bottom)
Cheap power supplies are a BIG no no and most likely will cause problems you
blame on everything else.
If power supplies were cars your cheap 500w would be a Yugo I have a Enermax
365w if a car a BMW5, so we load them both with 4 people and luggage head on
round trip coast to coast full throttle. What car will make it without
needing new piston rods or burning oil?

Remember how they used to advertise those little speakers at 120w (3w) or
200w for 12$

 

[Bonj]

I was more specifically asking about fans, but since you mention it what
make of power supply would you recommend?

I've had two cheap power supplies in about 3 years on my 32-bit board, so
why should the equivalent higher-power one go wrong any more on a 64-bit
board?

I'm more concerned about whether it's likely to be stable - not whether it
will go wrong *someday*, because I think any power supply will go wrong
*someday*.

 

[borolad]

I was more specifically asking about fans, but since you mention it what
make of power supply would you recommend?

I've had two cheap power supplies in about 3 years on my 32-bit board, so
why should the equivalent higher-power one go wrong any more on a 64-bit
board?

I'm more concerned about whether it's likely to be stable - not whether it
will go wrong *someday*, because I think any power supply will go wrong
*someday*.

Read dozens of thread in this group on PSU's, to get you started
here are just two.

- here is a quote from Wes Newell :

"When I first got my AMD 64 3000+ I couldn't get it to stay boot
sometimes. and other times it would crash during post, etc during the
first minute. I had a 400W PSU.

I ordered 3 more, 500, 550, and 600W. All 3 ran the systemfine. The
400W still powers my XP system just fine. So yes, you need good power.
The 500W was $15, the 550 $18, and the 600 was $24. Yeah, I'm a cheap
sob.

- here is a quote to Craig Coope from AMD :

"Dear Mr. Coope,

Thank you for your interest in the AMD range of products. A 340 W
Power Supply is definitely not sufficient for your system. You should
change it in any case, therefore I suggest you to take 450 W or above,
to be sure you not only have enough now but as well a little reserve
for any eventual future upgrades.

If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact
me again.

Best regards,

David Boizard

European Technical Services Centre
www.amd.com/eurosupport

France: 0800 908 621 (numéro vert)
Germany: +49 89 450 53199
Italy: 800 877 224
United Kingdom: +44 1276 803 299"

Loads of info in here M8

 

[Mac Cool]

Bonj:

Question really, is does anybody reckon I should have any worries
about this configuration

Cheap power supplies can cause problems that are very difficult to
diagnose.

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=270007
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=241132

budget version:
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=241757

 

[Bonj]

Any chance of answering the question that was asked, i.e. fans?

 

[Bonj]

Why are you posting this apparent spam, unless you are affiliated with the
makers of the power supplies?

 

[jacoby]

I would not anticipate any additional cooling solutions. See how it performs
with what you got an go from there.

 

[Paul Busby]

Thus spake Bonj:

Hello
I have ordered a AMD Athlon 64 2800+ 1.8GHz chip and an Elite
K8M800-M2 Skt 754 motherboard for it, with the intention of building
up a 64-bit machine for general stuff like games, programming etc.
I've also ordered a fairly cheap (but powerful - 500W) power supply
off ebuyer for it.
Apparently the chip comes with a heatsink and fan. The power supply
is the cheapest 500W one on ebuyer, but it comes with "dual fans".

Question really, is does anybody reckon I should have any worries
about this configuration, and should I be thinking about getting any
extra fans/cooling systems etc.? If so what sort, where to put them,
etc.?

Wouldn't it be better to ask advice /before/ purchase rather than seeking
agreement afterwards? Case fans can easily be added as required (ie, if
reported temps are higher than expected/desired or if the temps drop with
the side panel off). As for PSUs, you may have got away with cheap & nasty
ones in the past but modern CPUs are more demanding as are video cards.
Cheap PSUs nearly always have far lower capacity than advertised. AMD
publish a list of tested PSUs, it's not definitive but a guide to who makes
some decent ones. Some ECS m/bs have been very popular & stable, possibly
more by luck than judgement. Cheap m/bs equal cheap caps, poor PSU
regulation & cut corners, even /less/ support than from the likes of Asus.

If I can't afford decent kit, I simply wait until I can, that way I have
more chance of stability & less need to upgrade sooner rather than later.
Whatever, good luck with your build. As for RAM, be careful with what you
fit if you want to run it at 200MHz. The moral being research to avoid
problems rather doing so to fix them

 

[Ed]

Hello
I have ordered a AMD Athlon 64 2800+ 1.8GHz chip and an Elite K8M800-M2 Skt
754 motherboard for it, with the intention of building up a 64-bit machine
for general stuff like games, programming etc. I've also ordered a fairly
cheap (but powerful - 500W) power supply off ebuyer for it.

Apparently the chip comes with a heatsink and fan. The power supply is the
cheapest 500W one on ebuyer, but it comes with "dual fans".

Question really, is does anybody reckon I should have any worries about this
configuration, and should I be thinking about getting any extra fans/cooling
systems etc.? If so what sort, where to put them, etc.?

You should have at least 1 rear case exhaust fan, if using high end
video card you may want to have 2 rear fans and/or a front case fans
also.

My full tower case has 2 front and 2 rear 80mm outlets, so I use 4
thermal case fans with their sensors stuck to various hardware, this
keeps it cool when needed and quite as possible when just surfing,etc.

It's not so much the size of the PSU but the quality, just look at the
PSU spec and compare, a lot of el-cheapo PSUs create line noise that can
actually cause ram errors beside other problems. I'd take a 350W/380W
Antec PSU over any no-name 450W+ PSU.

The stock AMD heatsink-fan works great and is fairly quite, though if
you have a cheap thin case it won't really matter what fans you use as
they'll all seem loud. Skimping on a good case and PSU now will just
give you grief later on IMO.

Ed

 

[Bonj]

It's not so much the size of the PSU but the quality, just look at the
PSU spec and compare, a lot of el-cheapo PSUs create line noise that can
actually cause ram errors beside other problems. I'd take a 350W/380W
Antec PSU over any no-name 450W+ PSU.

Is it just a case of "you get what you pay for" or are certain makes
reputable and others not? Got a link for that one you would recommend, or
how much would I expect to spend on it?

 

[Bonj]

Ok, say if I install a cheap power supply, if it "goes up the spout" is it
likely to break just itself, or anything else?
As in most likely scenario?

 

[dawg]

Really,the only fans you should need are CPU, Northbridge ,Lower front
inside case(intake) and PS fan. An exhaust fan in the back is fine if there
is room. If you are overclocking,more powful fans in those places is
warranted.
And the Antec Power supply line at 380w and up is a good choice. With the
more powerful components nowadays a CLEAN power source is definitely a must.
Cheap power supplies don't have clean power, by which I mean,steady voltage
from all lines.

 

[Iain Dingsdale]

Ok, say if I install a cheap power supply, if it "goes up the spout" is it
likely to break just itself, or anything else?
As in most likely scenario?

Could break itself and every other component, could break just itself, could
just cause stability problems. But do you want to risk it?
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17181488

 

[Ed]

Is it just a case of "you get what you pay for" or are certain makes
reputable and others not? Got a link for that one you would recommend, or
how much would I expect to spend on it?

First I would figure out about how much power you'll need as a minimum,
you can get a fairly good idea by using a PSU calculator like this
one... http://takaman.jp/psu_calc.html?english , notice how the
different rails of the PSU (3V,5V,12V,etc) all require a certain amount
of power for your hardware. When looking at PSUs look at the specs of
each rail and not just the Wattage number they slap on it.

All I can add is that my last 4 AMD builds are all running on Antec PSUs
and not a single crash or lock up on these systems!

Ed
--
Antec 400W
Athlon 64 3200+ newcastle
2*512MB
2*PATA100 7200rpm
1*CDRW
1*DRDRW
1*Floppy
1*ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 128
1*Audigy 2

Antec 380W
Athlon 64 3000+ clawhammer
2*512MB
2*SATA100 7200rpm
1*CDRW
1*DRDRW
1*Floppy
1*Saphire 9800 Pro 128
1*Audigy 2Z

 

[String]

The capasitors pop, swell, bulge, whine or scream under load. A bad power
supply may fry a Mainboard and CPU before its too late, a good supply >IF<
they go most often do so quickly and save the rest of the parts from
overload.

Good luck

 

[Wes Newell]

If you buy Cheap you buy twice!

And you will be able to afford to.

A fool and his money!

Pay too much for expensive name brand electronics.

You get what you pay for!

This has been proven wrong so many times it's a joke. You get what you
research. to be a good value, other, well, you said it in your second
sentence.

ESC is now 100% PC-Chips (someone has to be at the bottom) Cheap power
supplies are a BIG no no and most likely will cause problems you blame on
everything else.

You're full of crap. Yeah, there's some cheap crap out there that isn't
very good or way over rated, but there's also very good inexpensive PSU's.
There's also some very expensive PSU's you'll find as crap.

If power supplies were cars your cheap 500w would be a Yugo I have a
Enermax 365w if a car a BMW5, so we load them both with 4 people and
luggage head on round trip coast to coast full throttle. What car will
make it without needing new piston rods or burning oil?

Both being maintained properly, it's a toss up. But your comparison is
very flawed. The BMW would be considred a 600W PSU compared to the Yugo
which would be a 300W PSU, so the extra load on the Yugo would make it
fail sooner in theory., but not in every instance.

Remember how they used to advertise those little speakers at 120w (3w)
or 200w for 12$

Speakes are not electronics, and shouldn't be compared to it.

 

[String]

Wes your arguing for argument sake alone My examples were made to make it
clear cheap products make big claims to sell junk and if you re-read I never
made any recommendation of ANY overpriced items just a warning to do
homework to avoid disappointing junk. I suspect I hit a nerve and you have
some of the low quality parts I mentioned. My point with the car was a great
example how power supplies are like cars, regardless of power claims they
are not the same. Most of those metaphors are used for a reason and
reticulating them for nothing real shows you have been a victim of each. The
speakers are a great example of overblown claims to sell junk.
If you buy Cheap you buy twice! (when smart people don't have to)
A fool and his money! (buy crap and pray for luck)
You get what you pay for! (buy crap get crap)

 

[Wes Newell]

I was more specifically asking about fans, but since you mention it what
make of power supply would you recommend?

For adequate ventilation you should add at least one intake to the lower
front portion of the case. If you want to do it right, cut out all the air
restricting metal grills where you mount the fan and enlarge the pastic
air intake portion as required to let the fan operate without air
restriction problems.

I've had two cheap power supplies in about 3 years on my 32-bit board,
so why should the equivalent higher-power one go wrong any more on a
64-bit board?

I've used literally hundreds of cheap PSU's with no more failure rates
than expenive one (disregarding the 10 I paid $2 ea for).

I'm more concerned about whether it's likely to be stable - not whether
it will go wrong *someday*, because I think any power supply will go
wrong *someday*.

I'd get 2 600W PSU's and keep one for a backup. This 600W specs look
fantastic, but I haven't used one. The price is right.

http://www.3btech.net/chdufan600wa.html

I've used a 500 & 600W Lead Power and a 550W Power Magic. They worked fine
with my A64 system. Just make sure the +12v rails are at least 20A I'd say.

 

[Bonj]

Oh right ! I see, you're assuming I'm overclocking.
Thanks for the clarification...