Fading worries

[TJ]

It's been a bad year for growing vegetable crops this year, and I'm in
the midst of doing the paperwork for a claim on my crop insurance. Part
of that work is producing summaries of the cultural practices I use to
grow my crops. (I have to use accepted practices or my claim will be
denied.)

These summaries will be filed away in the local USDA office for some
kind of future reference, if necessary. Usually, they're never looked at
again, but this year I hear the USDA is doing a round of audits of their
offices, just to see that they are following proper procedure. I printed
my summaries myself, using cheapo plain copy paper in an HP PSC 2110 and
cheapo aftermarket ink, as I don't have a drop of OEM inkjet ink
anywhere on the farm. Should I be worried that the prints will have
faded so badly by the time of the audit that they are unreadable? It
could mean that I have to return any insurance money I may receive.

Maybe I'm worrying over nothing. In the 2 1/2 years I've used this
printer/paper/ink combination, nothing that's been kept inside has faded
yet.

TJ

 

[Al Bundy]

It's been a bad year for growing vegetable crops this year, and I'm in
the midst of doing the paperwork for a claim on my crop insurance. Part
of that work is producing summaries of the cultural practices I use to
grow my crops. (I have to use accepted practices or my claim will be
denied.)

These summaries will be filed away in the local USDA office for some
kind of future reference, if necessary. Usually, they're never looked at
again, but this year I hear the USDA is doing a round of audits of their
offices, just to see that they are following proper procedure. I printed
my summaries myself, using cheapo plain copy paper in an HP PSC 2110 and
cheapo aftermarket ink, as I don't have a drop of OEM inkjet ink
anywhere on the farm. Should I be worried that the prints will have
faded so badly by the time of the audit that they are unreadable? It
could mean that I have to return any insurance money I may receive.

Maybe I'm worrying over nothing. In the 2 1/2 years I've used this
printer/paper/ink combination, nothing that's been kept inside has faded
yet.

TJ

I think you are overly worried. I have never used any OEM ink except
what came with a printer and have never had any text fade noticeably. I
would think if they had problems reading their file they could ask you
for another copy. Since it's so important you should store the
documents digitally. You could also make some extra copies at a copy
machine in town Saturday before the big dance.

 

[Edwin Pawlowski]

I think you are overly worried. I have never used any OEM ink except
what came with a printer and have never had any text fade noticeably.

Yes, but we are talking about a government agency. Most inks are good for
only 50 to 100 years. It may take twice that for an agency review.

 

[Al Bundy]

It's been a bad year for growing vegetable crops this year, and I'm in
the midst of doing the paperwork for a claim on my crop insurance. Part
of that work is producing summaries of the cultural practices I use to
grow my crops. (I have to use accepted practices or my claim will be
denied.)

These summaries will be filed away in the local USDA office for some
kind of future reference, if necessary. Usually, they're never looked at
again, but this year I hear the USDA is doing a round of audits of their
offices, just to see that they are following proper procedure. I printed
my summaries myself, using cheapo plain copy paper in an HP PSC 2110 and
cheapo aftermarket ink, as I don't have a drop of OEM inkjet ink
anywhere on the farm. Should I be worried that the prints will have
faded so badly by the time of the audit that they are unreadable? It
could mean that I have to return any insurance money I may receive.

Maybe I'm worrying over nothing. In the 2 1/2 years I've used this
printer/paper/ink combination, nothing that's been kept inside has faded
yet.

TJ

By the way, I was in a government office a few months ago and they said
they were 100% digital. My forms would be scanned and shredded within
48 hours.
And even fading doesn't mean documents would be unreadable.

 

[milou]

Yes, but we are talking about a government agency. Most inks are good for
only 50 to 100 years. It may take twice that for an agency review.

Don't worry about gvt agencies, they will have scanned the paperwork,
made their own prints and filled a few hard drives, microfilm banks
etc
The OP stuff is there for posterity.

 

[TJ]

By the way, I was in a government office a few months ago and they said
they were 100% digital. My forms would be scanned and shredded within
48 hours.
And even fading doesn't mean documents would be unreadable.

I can promise you, the USDA's Farm Service Agency isn't paperless yet.
I've signed enough paperwork for this claim to make me want to vomit.
I've seen my file from a couple of years back, too. Plenty of paper there.

TJ

 

[TJ]

I think you are overly worried. I have never used any OEM ink except
what came with a printer and have never had any text fade noticeably. I
would think if they had problems reading their file they could ask you
for another copy. Since it's so important you should store the
documents digitally. You could also make some extra copies at a copy
machine in town Saturday before the big dance.

Well, that's a relief. I created the documents with OpenOffice Writer,
but saved them in MS Word format so any clunky government Windows
computer should be able to read it. They're on my hard drive and will be
archived in my next regular backup.

That fading business had me concerned. If you read that report by that
Wilhelm guy, you'll see that non-OEM ink practically starts fading
before the document hits the "out" tray! My own experience contradicts
that, but maybe I've just been very lucky.

TJ

 

[Arthur Entlich]

I'd suggest growing beets next time and using the juice to print with! ;-0

On a more serious note, most black inks used for text printing with HP
printers are pigment based. Of course, 3rd party inks can vary, but
even assuming they are dye inks, if printed on regular bond (photocopy)
paper and kept in a file folder in a file drawer, they will probably
remain just fine for tens of years, at least. The main cause of fading
in the average household is UV exposure from bright lighting (sunlight,
Halogen or fluorescent).

If it would give you more peace of mind, just photocopy the pages with a
standard black and white photocopier like those found in most libraries
or malls, at 5-10 cents a page. Laser printer and photocopier black
toners are usually very stable (they usually are a mix of dye, pigment
(usually carbon black) and waxes and thermal plastics). Just keep them
away from vinyl plastic which they tend to stick and transfer to.

Some people would probably love for their accounting records to
disappear before the tax people saw them ;-)

While on this subject... one real menace I have encountered is the use
of thermal printing output (like the older thermal fax paper) used for
store receipts. I have had some of these fade way in less than 30 days,
even in dark keeping. Some become blotchy or areas completely fade away
to nothing. Considering some of these receipts are for goods with 5-6
year warranties, and the warranty wording requires "proof of purchase"
in way of the original store receipt to prove date of purchase, that
could be a real problem.

Since I have a photocopier in my home (one of my best investments in
terms of saving money and time - my second is a good quality guillotine
paper cutter) I now always photocopy my receipts from major purchases
that come with warranties as a safeguard. It has saved my bacon a few
times on warranty claims.

Art

 

[Arthur Entlich]

You forgot to mention that it will be lost by several of the agencies
that have it, and some versions of it will end up in the hands of
someone buying a government surplus computer.

Art

 

[TJ]

I'd suggest growing beets next time and using the juice to print with! ;-0

On a more serious note, most black inks used for text printing with HP
printers are pigment based. Of course, 3rd party inks can vary, but
even assuming they are dye inks, if printed on regular bond (photocopy)
paper and kept in a file folder in a file drawer, they will probably
remain just fine for tens of years, at least. The main cause of fading
in the average household is UV exposure from bright lighting (sunlight,
Halogen or fluorescent).

If it would give you more peace of mind, just photocopy the pages with a
standard black and white photocopier like those found in most libraries
or malls, at 5-10 cents a page. Laser printer and photocopier black
toners are usually very stable (they usually are a mix of dye, pigment
(usually carbon black) and waxes and thermal plastics). Just keep them
away from vinyl plastic which they tend to stick and transfer to.

Some people would probably love for their accounting records to
disappear before the tax people saw them ;-)

While on this subject... one real menace I have encountered is the use
of thermal printing output (like the older thermal fax paper) used for
store receipts. I have had some of these fade way in less than 30 days,
even in dark keeping. Some become blotchy or areas completely fade away
to nothing. Considering some of these receipts are for goods with 5-6
year warranties, and the warranty wording requires "proof of purchase"
in way of the original store receipt to prove date of purchase, that
could be a real problem.

Since I have a photocopier in my home (one of my best investments in
terms of saving money and time - my second is a good quality guillotine
paper cutter) I now always photocopy my receipts from major purchases
that come with warranties as a safeguard. It has saved my bacon a few
times on warranty claims.

Art

One good reason to have an all-in-one printer - if you do much copying.
One button push and you have your copy - without having to fire up the
whole computer system. Before I got my PSC I had a scanner and printer,
and I could send the scan directly to the printer to make copies, but I
had to go through booting the computer to do it. My computer isn't on
all the time. I save on my power bill by shutting it down when I'm not
using it. I even kill the power going to it.

Oh, and Art... I tried growing beets. Been growing them for years. This
year, though, it didn't work. Too much rain early in the season
compacted the soil, and they never got a chance to recover. Frost will
take care of it this winter, but it won't help this year's crop. Beets
were one of the crops I have on the list for the insurance claim. I
might try making ink from them next year, though. Would that make me an
Original Manufacturer? Then again, maybe I'd be better off making
ethanol from them...

TJ

 

[Arthur Entlich]

Well, good luck with next year's beet crop. Do keep in mind that
depending on the all-in-one printer you have, copies may be inkjet ink,
and could be dye ink, meaning the copies could fade over time.

There are all-in-one laser printers (now both black and white and color)
which use very fade resistant toners.

Art

TJ wrote:

 

[me]

Well, that's a relief. I created the documents with OpenOffice Writer,
but saved them in MS Word format so any clunky government Windows
computer should be able to read it. They're on my hard drive and will
be archived in my next regular backup.

When I'm sending something to somebody else from openoffice I tend to
send it as a pdf, there's also less chance of the layout being messed up
then, as I can view the pdf afterwards to check it works, whereas
different versions of MSOffice seem to render MSOffice documents
differently.

On one occasion someone sent me either a powerpoint or excel file (I
forget which), and entertainingly enough openoffice rendered it better
than microsoft's standalone viewer!

 

[TJ]

When I'm sending something to somebody else from openoffice I tend to
send it as a pdf, there's also less chance of the layout being messed up
then, as I can view the pdf afterwards to check it works, whereas
different versions of MSOffice seem to render MSOffice documents
differently.

On one occasion someone sent me either a powerpoint or excel file (I
forget which), and entertainingly enough openoffice rendered it better
than microsoft's standalone viewer!

I believe it. OpenOffice is better for my purposes than the Microsoft
product. It does all the most-used stuff as well or better than Office,
it's free, and it works seamlessly with Windows, Mac OS X, and Linux.

One doesn't have to spend a fortune to use a computer.

TJ