HP 7550 fading prints?

[Tim]

I have an HP 7550 and ONLY use HP inks.

I'd printed some 4X6's using HP's Photo Paper, Glossy, some weeks/months
back. I'd say maybe 3/4 month maybe. They were printed under BEST with the
proper paper type setting.

I have them scattered around my living room and a couple in the kitchen.
This week I've noted they've ALL turned creepy greenish and have faded too.

The Environment: My rooms have windows, but are mostly left with the blinds
drawn until evening. There is minimal indirect light on the pictures and no
artificial light. The temperature does reach the mid-80's during the day at
this time of the year.

I KNOW that the normal 'Photo Paper' is NOT as long lived at the 'Premium'
or 'Premium Plus' stuff, but I thought they'd last longer than this. With
the cost of ink, not to mention paper, I hate just flushing everything I
print after 12 weeks.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Tim

 

[Bob Headrick]

I have an HP 7550 and ONLY use HP inks.

I'd printed some 4X6's using HP's Photo Paper, Glossy, some weeks/months
back. I'd say maybe 3/4 month maybe. They were printed under BEST with the
proper paper type setting.

I have them scattered around my living room and a couple in the kitchen.
This week I've noted they've ALL turned creepy greenish and have faded too. [snip]
I KNOW that the normal 'Photo Paper' is NOT as long lived at the 'Premium'
or 'Premium Plus' stuff, but I thought they'd last longer than this. With
the cost of ink, not to mention paper, I hate just flushing everything I
print after 12 weeks.

There is actually an enormous difference in lightfastness between different
paper types. HP Premium Plus has about 2x the lightfastness of HP Premium.
The everyday HP photo paper has much less light fade performance. See
http://www.wilhelm-research.com/pdf/PCWorld_FadeFactor_Nov_2002.pdf for some
comparisons. There are lightfade differences of 30x or more between different
papers. For prints that you need to have last for years use appropriate
papers.
http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/genericDocument?lc=en&cc=us&docname=bpy21054
shows relative indications of various HP photo papers.

Regards,
Bob Headrick, not speaking for my employer HP

 

[Tim]

Thanks Bob,

Hoped you'd see my msg.

I accept what you've presented.

Having said that, I'm amazed that these prints, not displayed in sunlight,
didn't even last 12 weeks. Seems a paper that needs withdrawing from the
product line.

re: For prints that you need to have last for years ... - What use would the
average person have for a print that lasts less than three months?

As a Product Manager, which I am, I'd be embarrassed to launch such an
offering, even having told the consumer of the characteristics of the
product in advance.

Nothing personal, of course. I appreciate your presence on this newsgroup.

Thanks,
Tim

I have an HP 7550 and ONLY use HP inks.

I'd printed some 4X6's using HP's Photo Paper, Glossy, some weeks/months
back. I'd say maybe 3/4 month maybe. They were printed under BEST with the
proper paper type setting.

I have them scattered around my living room and a couple in the kitchen.
This week I've noted they've ALL turned creepy greenish and have faded

too.

[snip]
I KNOW that the normal 'Photo Paper' is NOT as long lived at the 'Premium'
or 'Premium Plus' stuff, but I thought they'd last longer than this. With
the cost of ink, not to mention paper, I hate just flushing everything I
print after 12 weeks.

There is actually an enormous difference in lightfastness between different
paper types. HP Premium Plus has about 2x the lightfastness of HP Premium.
The everyday HP photo paper has much less light fade performance. See
http://www.wilhelm-research.com/pdf/PCWorld_FadeFactor_Nov_2002.pdf for some
comparisons. There are lightfade differences of 30x or more between different
papers. For prints that you need to have last for years use appropriate
papers.
http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/genericDocument?lc=en&cc=us&docname=bpy21054
shows relative indications of various HP photo papers.

Regards,
Bob Headrick, not speaking for my employer HP

 

[Traveling]

A different question but about HP papers.

Does HP offer printer settings for a non-HP printer?

If they do, where would I find it?

I really think that there is potenital for a marketing coup to increase the
sale of paper if settings where listed for other major brands of printers.

 

[Bob Headrick]

Does HP offer printer settings for a non-HP printer?
I really think that there is potenital for a marketing coup to increase the
sale of paper if settings where listed for other major brands of printers.

It really is not very practical to do this as different inks and papers have
differnt color output. SInce the objective is to reproduce color faithfully it
is necessary to tune the drivers for each supported paper. On the HP side the
color science folks in the printer divisions stay pretty busy moptimizing the
HP ink and paper results.

Trying to support the competitors ink and writing systes would be a formidable
challenge, especailly since support could not start until the products were on
the market as the competitors would presumably not care to share thier
development plans for printers and inks before then. An additiona difficulty
is that the color corrections for a particular paper are typically made in the
driver and internal printer firmware. It would be exceedingly difficult to
design color maps for a competitors printer without thier cooperation.

REgards,
Bob Headrick, not speaking for my employer HP

 

[Steve B]

FWIW, I've had prints from my old HP930 (4yrs) and newer HP5550 (16 months)
laying around in similar circumstances to yours with zero fading in all this
time. That's with HP ink, refill ink, some HP Premium paper, lots of Ilford
Printasia glossy and Imation Photojet glossy. I seem to be able to get away
with any storage method, even a couple of prints have for the last year been on
a shelf sandwiched between folders but with about an inch exposed, and there's
zero difference between the covered area and the exposed area despite lots of
fluorescent lighting exposure (but no direct sunlight, just normal shaded
daylight).
Differences? Well, it's England and we hardly ever see temperatures in the
80's. More like 68 deg
average I suppose indoors. Humid though. Gas pollutants can have a huge effect
on fading, as can draughts, especially if combined with light exposure but I
don't think anyone really understands the combined effect fully.
It would seem sensible to change papers and keep your prints covered up in the
meantime.

Thanks Bob,

Hoped you'd see my msg.

I accept what you've presented.

Having said that, I'm amazed that these prints, not displayed in sunlight,
didn't even last 12 weeks. Seems a paper that needs withdrawing from the
product line.

re: For prints that you need to have last for years ... - What use would the
average person have for a print that lasts less than three months?

As a Product Manager, which I am, I'd be embarrassed to launch such an
offering, even having told the consumer of the characteristics of the
product in advance.

Nothing personal, of course. I appreciate your presence on this newsgroup.

Thanks,
Tim

I have an HP 7550 and ONLY use HP inks.

I'd printed some 4X6's using HP's Photo Paper, Glossy, some weeks/months
back. I'd say maybe 3/4 month maybe. They were printed under BEST with the
proper paper type setting.

I have them scattered around my living room and a couple in the kitchen.
This week I've noted they've ALL turned creepy greenish and have faded

too.

[snip]
I KNOW that the normal 'Photo Paper' is NOT as long lived at the 'Premium'
or 'Premium Plus' stuff, but I thought they'd last longer than this. With
the cost of ink, not to mention paper, I hate just flushing everything I
print after 12 weeks.

There is actually an enormous difference in lightfastness between different
paper types. HP Premium Plus has about 2x the lightfastness of HP Premium.
The everyday HP photo paper has much less light fade performance. See
http://www.wilhelm-research.com/pdf/PCWorld_FadeFactor_Nov_2002.pdf for some
comparisons. There are lightfade differences of 30x or more between different
papers. For prints that you need to have last for years use appropriate
papers.

http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/genericDocument?lc=en&cc=us&docname=bpy21054

shows relative indications of various HP photo papers.

Regards,
Bob Headrick, not speaking for my employer HP

 

[Tim]

Actually Steve, you got me thinking about Gas pollutants. I have a very nice
Indian family living downstairs. You think the Curry fumes might be ...? ;>)

Thanks,
Tim

 

[Joel]

I have an HP 7550 and ONLY use HP inks.

I'd printed some 4X6's using HP's Photo Paper, Glossy, some weeks/months
back. I'd say maybe 3/4 month maybe. They were printed under BEST with the
proper paper type setting.

I have them scattered around my living room and a couple in the kitchen.
This week I've noted they've ALL turned creepy greenish and have faded too.

The Environment: My rooms have windows, but are mostly left with the blinds
drawn until evening. There is minimal indirect light on the pictures and no
artificial light. The temperature does reach the mid-80's during the day at
this time of the year.

I KNOW that the normal 'Photo Paper' is NOT as long lived at the 'Premium'
or 'Premium Plus' stuff, but I thought they'd last longer than this. With
the cost of ink, not to mention paper, I hate just flushing everything I
print after 12 weeks.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Tim

This is what I have been doing for the past several years and all the
prints last much longer than before.

1) Have all the photo cropped to the correct size either 4x6 or 8x10

2) Burn the photos to CD (or CD-RW) and take to either Wal-Mart or SAM's
Club and let them do the printing for me. I have printed thousands of
photos this way and they last just like the photos taken by 35mm camera, and
the quality of digital camera is much better than regular 35mm camera.

SAM's Club coats 20 cents for 4"x6" (never done 8x10 there), and Wal-Mart
costs 26 cents for 4x6 and $2.86 for 8x10. And this is 1 HOUR service, if
you print 200-300 photos then you may have to wait for 2-3 hours or so.

 

[Mushroom]

Seriously, PhotoPaper is NOT the same as Premium or Premium plus. The
Photo paper uses an absorbant inkjet receiving layer over the subtrate.
The ink is absorbed into it but pollutants in the air can still get at
the ink pigments/dyes and they react to them - this is what changes the
colour. You need to use the Premium Plus paper which uses a swellable
receiving layer - the ink stays behind a UV and airproof layer and is
gauranteed for 70 years minimum - much longer than silver halide. Using
a "closed loop" system - HP priner, HP inks, HP swellable photo paper
will give you infinitely better and more consistent paper than all that
stuff abot taking the camera card/Cd to a photo shop.

 

[Joel]

Seriously, PhotoPaper is NOT the same as Premium or Premium plus. The
Photo paper uses an absorbant inkjet receiving layer over the subtrate.
The ink is absorbed into it but pollutants in the air can still get at
the ink pigments/dyes and they react to them - this is what changes the
colour. You need to use the Premium Plus paper which uses a swellable
receiving layer - the ink stays behind a UV and airproof layer and is
gauranteed for 70 years minimum - much longer than silver halide. Using
a "closed loop" system - HP priner, HP inks, HP swellable photo paper
will give you infinitely better and more consistent paper than all that
stuff abot taking the camera card/Cd to a photo shop.

There won't be 70 years, not even 2-3 years if explore to light. Some
color may last longer than other, and some has much shorter life. Let say
some colors last for 100 years and some last for 1 year, and 1 year later
the photo will show DOT DOT DOT DOT and lot of DOTS because some color faded
away and turn the 100-year color into ugly DOTs.

And there isn't anything special about it, just like the regular paint,
color marker, color pen etc. some color last longer than other, and some
fades faster than other.

 

[Bob Headrick]

There won't be 70 years, not even 2-3 years if explore to light.
Some color may last longer than other, and some has much shorter
life. Let say some colors last for 100 years and some last for 1 year,
and 1 year later the photo will show DOT DOT DOT DOT and lot
of DOTS because some color faded away and turn the 100-year color
into ugly DOTs.

In your example the light fade would be rated as 1 year (or less). The rating
is based on the time it tekes the print to show just noticable degradation,
which will happen once the first color fades.

Read up on the subject at http://www.wilhelm-research.com/.

Regards,
Bob Headrick, not speaking for my employer HP

 

[Joel]

In your example the light fade would be rated as 1 year (or less). Therating
is based on the time it tekes the print to show just noticable degradation,
which will happen once the first color fades.

Read up on the subject at http://www.wilhelm-research.com/.

Regards,
Bob Headrick, not speaking for my employer HP

I don't speak for HP either, and I don't know if I can trust any other
opinion more than my own eyes (unless I have my eyes poked out). Yes, I
have read few color tests from several different ink and paper companies,
and dozen individual users which often found more ink and paper problem than
the ink and paper companies.

 

[Bob Headrick]

Read up on the subject at http://www.wilhelm-research.com/.

[snip]

Yes, I have read few color tests from several different ink
and paper companies, and dozen individual users which
often found more ink and paper problem than the ink and
paper companies.

Henry Wilhelm is not an ink or paper company, he is a researcher and has been
doing this for 20+ years. From his web site: "Henry Wilhelm is co-founder,
president, and director of research at Wilhelm Imaging Research, Inc. and
appears frequently as a speaker on inkjet printing technologies and print
permanence at industry conferences, trade shows, and museum conservation
meetings."

See http://www.wilhelm-research.com/about_us.html for details.

regards,
Bob Headrick, not speaking for my employer HP

 

[Joel]

Read up on the subject at http://www.wilhelm-research.com/.

[snip]

Yes, I have read few color tests from several different ink
and paper companies, and dozen individual users which
often found more ink and paper problem than the ink and
paper companies.

Henry Wilhelm is not an ink or paper company, he is a researcher and has been
doing this for 20+ years. From his web site: "Henry Wilhelm is co-founder,
president, and director of research at Wilhelm Imaging Research, Inc. and
appears frequently as a speaker on inkjet printing technologies and print
permanence at industry conferences, trade shows, and museum conservation
meetings."

See http://www.wilhelm-research.com/about_us.html for details.

regards,
Bob Headrick, not speaking for my employer HP

To tell you the truth, I think I would live with the print from photolab
like Wal-Mart, SAM's Club etc.. even they may not last more than 100 years
(I just saw a small Epson printer claims to last up to 200 years) as manyof
my family photos already turned yellow and faded away after 60-70 years.
Well, you may have seen some older family photos, or lot of people searching
for away to restore their old family photos (of their parents, grandparents,
or great grandparents etc.).

In the past, I printed some thousands photos with different inkjet
printers, I don't have the chance to see most of them but few and from good
distance they still look good, but in few inches I can see some fading and
dots showing. Yes, the prints from newer printers seem to last longer than
older printers (I have had 6 inkjet printers) but after few shorts years I
can see some dots showing, some color fades and shifts faster than other.

And I don't even need to wait for 100-200 years to see the difference.
So, I just take my photos to Wal-Mart (26 cents a pop) or SAM's (20 centsa
pop) and let them do the printing. I still have Epson Photo 900 and HP
Photosmart 1350 for some quick color print (I also have 2 laser printers for
normal print).