Real-world ink longevity test

[TJ]

I printed a copy of a one-page magazine article about my father for his
funeral 13 months ago. The article included both text and a color photo.
I used an HP PSC 2110 printer, Kodak Premium Picture Paper, and HP ink
cartridges that I had refilled numerous times with aftermarket ink.
Since the funeral, the print has been hanging on our living room wall,
framed in a dollar store frame and behind glass. While it is a bright
room, the spot where the print hangs does not receive direct sunlight at
any time.

So far, there has been no discernible fading whatsoever. The print looks
as good to me today as it did the day I printed it. I fully expect it to
look good for years to come.

Accelerated tests of the type done by many labs and/or magazines would
have you believe that aftermarket ink starts fading practically before
it finishes drying. Nothing could be further from the truth. With just a
moderate amount of care, aftermarket ink can last a good, long, time.
With poor care, even OEM ink will fade quickly.

TJ

 

[Michael Johnson]

I printed a copy of a one-page magazine article about my father for his
funeral 13 months ago. The article included both text and a color photo.
I used an HP PSC 2110 printer, Kodak Premium Picture Paper, and HP ink
cartridges that I had refilled numerous times with aftermarket ink.
Since the funeral, the print has been hanging on our living room wall,
framed in a dollar store frame and behind glass. While it is a bright
room, the spot where the print hangs does not receive direct sunlight at
any time.

So far, there has been no discernible fading whatsoever. The print looks
as good to me today as it did the day I printed it. I fully expect it to
look good for years to come.

Accelerated tests of the type done by many labs and/or magazines would
have you believe that aftermarket ink starts fading practically before
it finishes drying. Nothing could be further from the truth. With just a
moderate amount of care, aftermarket ink can last a good, long, time.
With poor care, even OEM ink will fade quickly.

We have hundreds upon hundreds of photos printed with after market ink
and they ALL look as good as the day they were printed. Based on my
personal experience, any difference that exists between OEM and after
market ink used in Canon printers is inconsequential to the average user.

 

[rudijock]

I printed a copy of a one-page magazine article about my father for his
funeral 13 months ago. The article included both text and a color photo.
I used an HP PSC 2110 printer, Kodak Premium Picture Paper, and HP ink
cartridges that I had refilled numerous times with aftermarket ink.
Since the funeral, the print has been hanging on our living room wall,
framed in a dollar store frame and behind glass. While it is a bright
room, the spot where the print hangs does not receive direct sunlight at
any time.

So far, there has been no discernible fading whatsoever. The print looks
as good to me today as it did the day I printed it. I fully expect it to
look good for years to come.

Accelerated tests of the type done by many labs and/or magazines would
have you believe that aftermarket ink starts fading practically before
it finishes drying. Nothing could be further from the truth. With just a
moderate amount of care, aftermarket ink can last a good, long, time.
With poor care, even OEM ink will fade quickly.

TJ

Here here!

Way to go, TJ- The truth may well be that one can expect a somewhat
shorter life from aftermarket inks, but how much, really remains to be
seen.

I also hear that very few (if any) printer manufactures actually make
their own ink, and that the same ink manufacturer that sells ink to ,
lets say, Canon, will sell the same ink to a reseller to be considered
"after market".

I will say this, though- the difference in price makes me feel happy
about having to reprint the picture in another five years, if needed.

I also cant help but think that in another 10 years, we will probably
have electronic photo frames replacing prints, as the cost keeps
dropping.

I can buy an 8x10 here in Toronto for under $200, and I bet in another
year, it will be around $80.

I use aftermarket dye based ink for my continuous ink system, and buy
pigment ink from inksupply.com. Very happy with all I have.

 

[Richard Steinfeld]

So far, there has been no discernible fading whatsoever. The print looks
as good to me today as it did the day I printed it. I fully expect it to
look good for years to come.

TJ, would you be kind enough to tell us what brand of ink you used
and/or who the seller was.

I'd really appreciate this. Thanks.

Richard

 

[rudijock]

TJ, would you be kind enough to tell us what brand of ink you used
and/or who the seller was.

I'd really appreciate this. Thanks.

Richard

I buy my dye based ink from asc365.com and the pigment from www.inksupply.com-
I am looking for a Canadian supplier of pigment ink, that can supply
B&W ink as well.

ASC365.com is located in Markham, Ontario. Inksupply.com in Michigan.

 

[DK]

I printed a copy of a one-page magazine article about my father for his
funeral 13 months ago. The article included both text and a color photo.
I used an HP PSC 2110 printer, Kodak Premium Picture Paper, and HP ink
cartridges that I had refilled numerous times with aftermarket ink.
Since the funeral, the print has been hanging on our living room wall,
framed in a dollar store frame and behind glass. While it is a bright
room, the spot where the print hangs does not receive direct sunlight at
any time.

So far, there has been no discernible fading whatsoever. The print looks
as good to me today as it did the day I printed it. I fully expect it to
look good for years to come.

Accelerated tests of the type done by many labs and/or magazines would
have you believe that aftermarket ink starts fading practically before
it finishes drying. Nothing could be further from the truth. With just a
moderate amount of care, aftermarket ink can last a good, long, time.
With poor care, even OEM ink will fade quickly.

Of course it is OK after a year - it is under glass! Not that there is
anyhting wrong with refilling but thus far every single test I am aware
of has been pretty unequivocal: aftermarket inks fade faster,
sometimes a lot faster, than OEM from reputable vendors (Epson,
Canon).

DK

 

[Michael Johnson]

Of course it is OK after a year - it is under glass! Not that there is
anyhting wrong with refilling but thus far every single test I am aware
of has been pretty unequivocal: aftermarket inks fade faster,
sometimes a lot faster, than OEM from reputable vendors (Epson,
Canon).

Every single print I have produced using after market ink has not faded
at all. Now I don't store them on the dash board of my truck but I also
don't hermetically seal them either. The problem with the tests I have
reviewed is they usually don't test the better after market inks. Also,
many of these tests are done to have a predetermined outcome which is
why they use the more inferior after market inks to test against the OEM
inks. Besides, if I ever do have a print that fades then all I need to
do is print another one. I am willing to get 95%+ of durability of OEM
ink to save 85% of its cost. A good trade, IMO.

 

[rudijock]

Every single print I have produced using after market ink has not faded
at all. Now I don't store them on the dash board of my truck but I also
don't hermetically seal them either. The problem with the tests I have
reviewed is they usually don't test the better after market inks. Also,
many of these tests are done to have a predetermined outcome which is
why they use the more inferior after market inks to test against the OEM
inks. Besides, if I ever do have a print that fades then all I need to
do is print another one. I am willing to get 95%+ of durability of OEM
ink to save 85% of its cost. A good trade, IMO.

I just responded on a different post the price difference-

$2.17 in ink for a borderless 8.5x11 vs .17¢.

How is that for saving? (using a continuous ink system)

 

[NotMe]

| >I printed a copy of a one-page magazine article about my father for his
| >funeral 13 months ago. The article included both text and a color photo.
| >I used an HP PSC 2110 printer, Kodak Premium Picture Paper, and HP ink
| >cartridges that I had refilled numerous times with aftermarket ink.
| >Since the funeral, the print has been hanging on our living room wall,
| >framed in a dollar store frame and behind glass. While it is a bright
| >room, the spot where the print hangs does not receive direct sunlight at
| >any time.
| >
| >So far, there has been no discernible fading whatsoever. The print looks
| >as good to me today as it did the day I printed it. I fully expect it to
| >look good for years to come.
| >
| >Accelerated tests of the type done by many labs and/or magazines would
| >have you believe that aftermarket ink starts fading practically before
| >it finishes drying. Nothing could be further from the truth. With just a
| >moderate amount of care, aftermarket ink can last a good, long, time.
| >With poor care, even OEM ink will fade quickly.
|
| Of course it is OK after a year - it is under glass! Not that there is
| anything wrong with refilling but thus far every single test I am aware
| of has been pretty unequivocal: aftermarket inks fade faster,
| sometimes a lot faster, than OEM from reputable vendors (Epson,
| Canon).

I would question the test. Recall that the tobacco companies published
studies out the kazoo that smoking was not harmful.
They even had physicians offering personal endorsements.

FWIW even hand painted oils deteriorate, the rate depends on the more on the
environment and care than on the materials used.

 

[rudijock]

| >I printed a copy of a one-page magazine article about my father for his
| >funeral 13 months ago. The article included both text and a color photo.
| >I used an HP PSC 2110 printer, Kodak Premium Picture Paper, and HP ink
| >cartridges that I had refilled numerous times with aftermarket ink.
| >Since the funeral, the print has been hanging on our living room wall,
| >framed in a dollar store frame and behind glass. While it is a bright
| >room, the spot where the print hangs does not receive direct sunlight at
| >any time.
| >
| >So far, there has been no discernible fading whatsoever. The print looks
| >as good to me today as it did the day I printed it. I fully expect it to
| >look good for years to come.
| >
| >Accelerated tests of the type done by many labs and/or magazines would
| >have you believe that aftermarket ink starts fading practically before
| >it finishes drying. Nothing could be further from the truth. With just a
| >moderate amount of care, aftermarket ink can last a good, long, time.
| >With poor care, even OEM ink will fade quickly.
|
| Of course it is OK after a year - it is under glass! Not that there is
| anything wrong with refilling but thus far every single test I am aware
| of has been pretty unequivocal: aftermarket inks fade faster,
| sometimes a lot faster, than OEM from reputable vendors (Epson,
| Canon).

I would question the test. Recall that the tobacco companies published
studies out the kazoo that smoking was not harmful.
They even had physicians offering personal endorsements.

FWIW even hand painted oils deteriorate, the rate depends on the more on the
environment and care than on the materials used.

If its your livelyhood, and you are selling your work- buy original
ink cartridges (unless you are sure you are doing the right thing
with reliable ink, of course)

Otherwise for those of us who print as a hobby- Screw the printer
companies- ask some of us who feel the ink is reliable for a
recommendation on where to buy.

And if someone tells you you will loose your warranty on your brand
new $69 printer- ask him to buy the next set of cartridges at $80 or
ask him if he doesnt mind if you throw the printer in his back yard,
(as the land fill sites are too full of cartridges and printers) when
it is out of ink so you can buy a new one at $69 and save $20.

Printers are not like cell phones- you have a choice!

Please vote for a choice!

 

[measekite]

I printed a copy of a one-page magazine article about my father for
his funeral 13 months ago. The article included both text and a color
photo. I used an HP PSC 2110 printer, Kodak Premium Picture Paper, and
HP ink cartridges that I had refilled numerous times with aftermarket
ink. Since the funeral, the print has been hanging on our living room
wall, framed in a dollar store frame and behind glass. While it is a
bright room, the spot where the print hangs does not receive direct
sunlight at any time.

So far, there has been no discernible fading whatsoever. The print
looks as good to me today as it did the day I printed it. I fully
expect it to look good for years to come.

Accelerated tests of the type done by many labs and/or magazines would
have you believe that aftermarket ink starts fading practically before
it finishes drying.

That certainly is true.

 

[DK]

| >I printed a copy of a one-page magazine article about my father for his
| >funeral 13 months ago. The article included both text and a color photo.
| >I used an HP PSC 2110 printer, Kodak Premium Picture Paper, and HP ink
| >cartridges that I had refilled numerous times with aftermarket ink.
| >Since the funeral, the print has been hanging on our living room wall,
| >framed in a dollar store frame and behind glass. While it is a bright
| >room, the spot where the print hangs does not receive direct sunlight at
| >any time.
| >
| >So far, there has been no discernible fading whatsoever. The print looks
| >as good to me today as it did the day I printed it. I fully expect it to
| >look good for years to come.
| >
| >Accelerated tests of the type done by many labs and/or magazines would
| >have you believe that aftermarket ink starts fading practically before
| >it finishes drying. Nothing could be further from the truth. With just a
| >moderate amount of care, aftermarket ink can last a good, long, time.
| >With poor care, even OEM ink will fade quickly.
|
| Of course it is OK after a year - it is under glass! Not that there is
| anything wrong with refilling but thus far every single test I am aware
| of has been pretty unequivocal: aftermarket inks fade faster,
| sometimes a lot faster, than OEM from reputable vendors (Epson,
| Canon).

I would question the test. Recall that the tobacco companies published
studies out the kazoo that smoking was not harmful.
They even had physicians offering personal endorsements.

Most of the test that I used to form the impression expressed above
were done by refilling enthusiasts and posted on Nifty-Stuff.com inkjet
forums.

http://www.nifty-stuff.com/docs/inkjet-fading.php but if you
search there, you'll find several more. The basic result in all tests
has been very consistent: third party inks, even the better ones like
Image Specialists (e.g., apparently = MIS and Fromulabs),
suck in comparison to OEM when it comes to fade resistance.

Mind you, I refill. If anything, I am *very* surprised why big OEM
companies so consistently come ahead of less known. Obviously,
Canon does not make its inks...

DK

 

[measekite]

We have hundreds upon hundreds of photos printed with after market ink
and they ALL look as good as the day they were printed. Based on my
personal experience, any difference that exists between OEM and after
market ink used in Canon printers is inconsequential to the average user.

That is not true.

 

[DK]

Every single print I have produced using after market ink has not faded
at all. Now I don't store them on the dash board of my truck but I also
don't hermetically seal them either. The problem with the tests I have
reviewed is they usually don't test the better after market inks. Also,
many of these tests are done to have a predetermined outcome which is
why they use the more inferior after market inks to test against the OEM
inks.

Not true when it comes to nifty-stuff.com user tests.
http://www.nifty-stuff.com/docs/inkjet-fading.php
http://www.nifty-stuff.com/docs/inkjet-fading1.php

Besides, if I ever do have a print that fades then all I need to
do is print another one. I am willing to get 95%+ of durability of OEM
ink to save 85% of its cost. A good trade, IMO.

Totally agree. That's why I refill, too. But the fact remains - for some
reason imitators thus far can never get it right.

DK

 

[measekite]

[email protected] wrote:

On Aug 19, 9:29 pm, TJ <[email protected]> wrote:



I printed a copy of a one-page magazine article about my father for his funeral 13 months ago. The article included both text and a color photo. I used an HP PSC 2110 printer, Kodak Premium Picture Paper, and HP ink cartridges that I had refilled numerous times with aftermarket ink. Since the funeral, the print has been hanging on our living room wall, framed in a dollar store frame and behind glass. While it is a bright room, the spot where the print hangs does not receive direct sunlight at any time. So far, there has been no discernible fading whatsoever. The print looks as good to me today as it did the day I printed it. I fully expect it to look good for years to come.

You do not understand.  Canon designs their printers and formulates their ink to go with that printer.  They may outsource the actual mfg but they own the process and maintain the quality control and the packaging and everything is up to their specs.  The same is true for Epson and HP.  They do not buy who knows what from some sleezeball in China who is out to make a fast buck (ie dog food, toothpaste, leaded paint for your kid, and magnets on toys to choke your kid) and some fly by night web vendor who will not tell you what they are selling.


Accelerated tests of the type done by many labs and/or magazines would have you believe that aftermarket ink starts fading practically before it finishes drying. Nothing could be further from the truth. With just a moderate amount of care, aftermarket ink can last a good, long, time. With poor care, even OEM ink will fade quickly. TJ --



Here here! Way to go, TJ- The truth may well be that one can expect a somewhat shorter life from aftermarket inks, but how much, really remains to be seen. I also hear that very few (if any) printer manufactures actually make their own ink, and that the same ink manufacturer that sells ink to , lets say, Canon, will sell the same ink to a reseller to be considered "after market". I will say this, though- the difference in price makes me feel happy about having to reprint the picture in another five years, if needed. I also cant help but think that in another 10 years, we will probably have electronic photo frames replacing prints, as the cost keeps dropping. I can buy an 8x10 here in Toronto for under $200, and I bet in another year, it will be around $80. I use aftermarket dye based ink for my continuous ink system, and buy pigment ink from inksupply.com. Very happy with all I have.

 

[measekite]

TJ, would you be kind enough to tell us what brand of ink you used
and/or who the seller was.

He will not because he cannot. The relabeler will not tell him what the
brand (mfg/fomulator) is.

 

[measekite]

DK wrote:

TJ <[email protected]> wrote:



I printed a copy of a one-page magazine article about my father for his funeral 13 months ago. The article included both text and a color photo. I used an HP PSC 2110 printer, Kodak Premium Picture Paper, and HP ink cartridges that I had refilled numerous times with aftermarket ink. Since the funeral, the print has been hanging on our living room wall, framed in a dollar store frame and behind glass. While it is a bright room, the spot where the print hangs does not receive direct sunlight at any time. So far, there has been no discernible fading whatsoever. The print looks as good to me today as it did the day I printed it. I fully expect it to look good for years to come. Accelerated tests of the type done by many labs and/or magazines would have you believe that aftermarket ink starts fading practically before it finishes drying. Nothing could be further from the truth. With just a moderate amount of care, aftermarket ink can last a good, long, time. With poor care, even OEM ink will fade quickly.



Of course it is OK after a year - it is under glass! Not that there is anyhting wrong with refilling but thus far every single test I am aware of has been pretty unequivocal: aftermarket inks fade faster, sometimes a lot faster, than OEM from reputable vendors (Epson, Canon).


That is correct but there are peole here who preach to the choir.


DK

 

[measekite]

Every single print I have produced using after market ink has not
faded at all. Now I don't store them on the dash board of my truck
but I also don't hermetically seal them either. The problem with the
tests I have reviewed is they usually don't test the better after
market inks. Also, many of these tests are done to have a
predetermined outcome which is why they use the more inferior after
market inks to test against the OEM inks. Besides, if I ever do have
a print that fades then all I need to do is print another one. I am
willing to get 95%+ of durability of OEM ink to save 85% of its cost.
A good trade, IMO.

Would you use that junk if you were a professional photographer and sold
your prints?

 

[DK]

Not true when it comes to nifty-stuff.com user tests.
http://www.nifty-stuff.com/docs/inkjet-fading.php
http://www.nifty-stuff.com/docs/inkjet-fading1.php


Totally agree. That's why I refill, too. But the fact remains - for some
reason imitators thus far can never get it right.

Here is the simplest illustration of this fact:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1003&message=12198835

 

[Burt]

(snip)
http://www.nifty-stuff.com/docs/inkjet-fading.php but if you
search there, you'll find several more. The basic result in all tests
has been very consistent: third party inks, even the better ones like
Image Specialists (e.g., apparently = MIS and Fromulabs),
suck in comparison to OEM when it comes to fade resistance.

Mind you, I refill. If anything, I am *very* surprised why big OEM
companies so consistently come ahead of less known. Obviously,
Canon does not make its inks...

DK

DK - Sensient-Formulabs is an ink formulator. Their product is sold by
alotofthings.com. MIS is presumed to sell inks made by Image Specialist,
another ink formulator. There are a few other vendors - Computer Friends
presumable sells IS inks, and Precision Colors
(http://home.eol.ca/~mikling/) states on their web site that all the inks
they sell are IS inks. I've been told that any vendor that sells IS inks as
well as other formulators inks must sign an agreement with IS to not
advertise the inks they sell as IS inks. Precision only sells IS inks and
is not bound by that requirement.