Everything hesitating or stuttering; Fixed by replacing the drive, but now happening again

[Nehmo]

Nehmo<[email protected]> wrote:

No evidence that the drive has a problem so they may well refuse a warranty claim.

The store already agreed to honor the warranty claim. I spoke to them
on the phone. So I can do it if I want.

You should try the drive manufacturer's diagnostic on the drive.

I just got Data Lifeguard Diagnostic for Windows from WD. I didn't
find anything like that for the Toshiba drive, the original drive.

I wouldnt do that personally given that the drive appears to be fine.

To review:
This is the same problem as before; the same exact symptoms manifest.
The first time, the Toshiba drive, the original drive, showed some
SMART problems. The Current Pending Sector Count appeared bad.
Changing the drive, or something that happened while changing the
drive, solved the problem.
Now the laptop, with the new WD drive, after a month of working fine,
is exhibiting the same symptoms as before. But this time the drive
isn't showing any problem in the SMART results.
The cooling design for the drive is not good, but the temperature
hasn't exceeded the manufacturer's limits.

Yes, since its clear that the laptop doesnt cool the drive properly.


Yeah, I think thats most likely. Classic dry joint/cracked trace type fault.


Yeah, the fault is likely producing intermittent data flow from the drive.




Yes, that drive was certainly dying. This one isnt.


I dont think I've ever seen that say anything else, even with a known bad drive.


The SMART report is JUST about the hard drive. If the fault is
outside the hard drive, it wont have any effect on the SMART report.

What I meant is that maybe it's possible the drive has a problem that
doesn't show up in the SMART report. Do all significant problems show
up in the SMART report?

 

[Folkert Rienstra]

Nehmo wrote in news:[email protected]

The store already agreed to honor the warranty claim. I spoke to them
on the phone. So I can do it if I want.


I just got Data Lifeguard Diagnostic for Windows from WD. I didn't
find anything like that for the Toshiba drive, the original drive.


To review:
This is the same problem as before; the same exact symptoms manifest.
The first time, the Toshiba drive, the original drive, showed some
SMART problems.

The Current Pending Sector Count appeared bad.

It wasn't bad. It showed there were unreadable sectors on the drive.
They could have been dealt with.

Changing the drive, or something that happened while changing the
drive, solved the problem.

You left out that you had to retighten some screws first before you
could make it work.

Now the laptop, with the new WD drive, after a month of working fine,
is exhibiting the same symptoms as before.

Which may have been a mechanical/electrical mounting problem all along.

But this time the drive isn't showing any problem in the SMART results.
Exactly.

The cooling design for the drive is not good, but the temperature
hasn't exceeded the manufacturer's limits.

That's debatable.

This one isnt.

Yet it shows the same symptoms.

Which makes the 'other drive dying' debatable.

 

[Rod Speed]

I just got Data Lifeguard Diagnostic for Windows from WD. I didn't
find anything like that for the Toshiba drive, the original drive.

Yeah, thats the big problem with Toshiba drives, the lack of a diag.

To review:
This is the same problem as before; the same exact symptoms manifest.

Yes, but with the original drive, it did have problems clearly
visible in the SMART report and the current drive does not.

So its likely that the symptoms arent actually due to the drive now.

The first time, the Toshiba drive, the original drive, showed some
SMART problems. The Current Pending Sector Count appeared bad.
Changing the drive, or something that happened while changing the
drive, solved the problem.

Now the laptop, with the new WD drive, after a month of working fine,
is exhibiting the same symptoms as before. But this time the drive
isn't showing any problem in the SMART results.

The cooling design for the drive is not good, but the
temperature hasn't exceeded the manufacturer's limits.

And you get the same problem even when the drive cool after being off overnight.

What I meant is that maybe it's possible the drive has
a problem that doesn't show up in the SMART report.

Thats very unlikely, particularly with two completely different drive models.

Do all significant problems show up in the SMART report?

All significant DRIVE problems do. Faults in the system the drive is plugged into dont.

 

[JAD]

The room temperature is normal, around 70 degrees F.
The drive specs seem to allow an operating temperature of 60 degrees
C, http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=102&language=en
I'm not blocking any vents.
The problem exists even when I start the computer. The Windows start-
sound is jerky. The temp when I last started was 46 degrees C.
I already opened the laptop looking for fur. I didn't find much. I'll
open it again, but the drive compartment is different from the area
cooled by the CPU fan.
About in the middle of this page http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=2580
, you can see a pic of the CPU fan. The article notes that there is no
direct cooling for the HD. There is a PCMCIA slot above the HD, and
the article notes taking out the dummy card lowers the drive temp a
bit. I just did this, but I believe something is permanently damaged.
The last time this problem presented itself, when I wrote the previous
threads about a month ago, I solved the problem by replacing the
drive. It must be the same problem, but I don't understand what's
going on. Did the old drive, the one before the replacement, die from
being too hot? And now is the same thing happening to the new drive?
Should I replace this drive too?

This happens in safe mode also?

 

[Nehmo]

It wasn't bad. It showed there were unreadable sectors on the drive.
They could have been dealt with.

In your opinion, the former drive wasn't bad. I still have it. Yes, I
can read it using the USB connected external adapter. It doesn't seem
to be reading with any trouble, except I still get the hesitation to a
degree. When I _do_ get the hesitation, I see the internal drive
indicator light flicker. I speculate the external drive (the original
Toshiba drive) is doing OK, but its output is interrupted whenever the
internal drive gets accessed.

I've been trying to play movies from one and then the other drive to
see if there is any difference. It's hard to tell because even if I
play a movie on the F drive (the external Toshiba) the C internal
drive comes into play some how.

You left out that you had to retighten some screws first before you
could make it work.

Actually, that happened when I was cleaning the vents prior to
changing the drive, but the implications are the same. Maybe something
isn't connecting properly. The connector for the drive seems most
likely to be the problem.

Which may have been a mechanical/electrical mounting problem all along.

I suppose I could push the connector tighter, but there's not much
else to do.

That's debatable.


Yet it shows the same symptoms.

Which makes the 'other drive dying' debatable.






No.

You and Rod seem to disagree on this. He says all significant drive
problems show up in the SMART report.

 

[JAD]

does the hesitation happen in safe mode?

 

[Folkert Rienstra]

Nehmo wrote in news:[email protected]

In your opinion, the former drive wasn't bad.

Not 'necessarily' bad. The 'bad' sectors may have been induced externally.
They'll disappear once overwritten.

I still have it. Yes, I can read it using the USB connected external
adapter. It doesn't seem to be reading with any trouble,

It should (with trouble) if it is hitting on the pending bad sectors, which
suggests that they have been put out of use in the filesystem by the OS.

except I still get the hesitation to a degree. When I _do_ get
the hesitation, I see the internal drive indicator light flicker.

Suggesting memory paging, maybe?

I speculate the external drive (the original Toshiba drive) is doing OK,
but its output is interrupted whenever the internal drive gets accessed.

Perhaps. It could be the other way around if the stutter causes the OS
to write to a system log file.

I've been trying to play movies from one and then the other drive
to see if there is any difference. It's hard to tell because even if
I play a movie on the F drive (the external Toshiba) the C internal
drive comes into play some how.

That's making analyzing this problem very difficult.
Unless of course this actually *is* the problem, but then, why did
it go away for a while? On the other hand, it could be an organiza-
tional problem that needs to build up again first, to re-show itself.

Actually, that happened when I was cleaning the vents prior to changing
the drive, but the implications are the same. Maybe something isn't
connecting properly. The connector for the drive seems most likely to
be the problem.

I suppose I could push the connector tighter, but there's not much else
to do.


You and Rod seem to disagree on this.

Not that uncommon.

He says all significant drive problems show up in the SMART report.

No he didn't:

"All significant DRIVE problems do. Faults in the system the drive is plugged into dont"