'Empty' Epson carts still contain ink!!

[Nigel Andrews]

I was disturbed to find that the carts which my Epson R300 claimed were
empty (it wouldn't do anything until I swapped) still seemed to have
substantial ink left in them (I shook them and heard liquid slopping
around).
I have the SCC utility but that doesn't seem to be able to force the printer
to reset the levels.

Does anyone experience this?

Nigel

 

[Jan Alter]

I was disturbed to find that the carts which my Epson R300 claimed were
empty (it wouldn't do anything until I swapped) still seemed to have
substantial ink left in them (I shook them and heard liquid slopping
around).
I have the SCC utility but that doesn't seem to be able to force the
printer to reset the levels.

Does anyone experience this?

Nigel

The software on your computer and the chip attached to the cartridge keep
count of how much you've printed and give an estimate of how much ink has
been used. When the chip says empty there may be somewhere between 10 - 25 %
of ink still remaining in the cartridge. The estimate is purposely
conservative by Epson to disallow printing before the cartridge is actually
empty because if you ran out of ink this could cause an annoying head clog
or introduce air into the printhead which could easily create an airlock or
at the minimum again cause premature drying of any ink in the printhead and
again cause a head clog.
To answer your question then; everyone using an Epson with chipped
cartridges experiences this event to a more or lesser degree, but there is
always left over ink, with possibly a rare exception.
A couple of years ago a class action suit was brought against Epson for
exactly what you're referring and a settlement was arranged for every person
who had bought an Epson between 1999 - Apr. '96. The action claimed that
Epson purposely configured its software and hardware to disallow printing
even though there might be as much as 25% of the ink left in the cartridge.
It claimed that consumers were being cheated of not being able to use the
entire amount of ink they'd purchased.
Rather than go to court Epson arranged to pay anyone who had bought one
of their printers within that time frame a sum of $45 ($25 cash and $20
credit towards merchandise at their online store, or $45 credit towards
merchandise at their online store).
Since then Epson's lawyers have rewritten their acceptance of use policy
when purchasing their printers. Whether or not that infers one can't sue
them again for not being able to use the full amount of ink in the cartridge
is an event to be seen.
You could purchase a chip resetter and that would allow you use of the
remaining ink in the cartridge, but that's iffy because you really can't see
how much ink is left.
For a good long term solution you can still purchase see - through
spongeless cartridges at MIS, bulk ink, and a chip resetter for your R300.
The cartridges are as easy to refill as filling a baby bottle. The ink is
excellent (from my own experience using it on a dozen printers at my school
for almost two years at this point) and you will not waste a cent or drop of
ink because the you can keep resetting the cartridge chips and use all the
ink. Additionally you will save a small fortune to what it would cost buying
Epson ink and not be contributing empty plastic into landfills.

http://www.inksupply.com/spongless_carts.cfm

You will no doubt read the noise of MK; the NG printer troll, who is highly
unaccepting of anyone elses opinions regarding refilling. I killfiled him
awhile ago. You can figure his ramblings for yourself.


Jan Alter
(e-mail address removed)
(e-mail address removed)12.pa.us

 

[Nigel Andrews]

Jan,

Thanks for that long and detailed explanation.

I guess I just hadn't 'listened' to previous carts and heard the ink in
those. It is scary how much ink/money we are all throwing away.
It seems time for a real investigation into cart sales. I am in the U.K. and
the government did an investigation into CD sales and unfair hyped prices.
It seems that ink carts should undergo the same examination. Maybe we will
see printer prices increase (some are sold at less than a set of branded
carts would cost!) but at least it will be above board.

You seem well informed. Is there a web resource which would explain
(technically) the printing process of general or specific ink jet printers?

Also, if it is not asking too much, a resource specific for printing
problems with Epson Stylus Photo R300?

many thanks

Nigel

 

[Jan Alter]

Jan,

Thanks for that long and detailed explanation.

I guess I just hadn't 'listened' to previous carts and heard the ink in
those. It is scary how much ink/money we are all throwing away.
It seems time for a real investigation into cart sales. I am in the U.K.
and the government did an investigation into CD sales and unfair hyped
prices. It seems that ink carts should undergo the same examination. Maybe
we will see printer prices increase (some are sold at less than a set of
branded carts would cost!) but at least it will be above board.

You seem well informed. Is there a web resource which would explain
(technically) the printing process of general or specific ink jet
printers?

Also, if it is not asking too much, a resource specific for printing
problems with Epson Stylus Photo R300?

many thanks

Nigel

What I have acquired has been specific to my own needs as someone who takes
care of some 80 Epson inkjets at our school for the past nine years and has
been using Epson printers since '91. So if you wanted to know how well any
of the Epson 740, 880, C80, C82, C84 and C88+ printers are doing I could
readily tell you, and for the R1800 I run at home.

There are several very well informed regulars on this NG who have some vast
overall knowledge of many makes of printers and also may have experience
with the R300. They may chime in, and additionally you might want to start
googling for specific problems with that printer.

Jan Alter
(e-mail address removed)
or
(e-mail address removed)12.pa.us

 

[Arthur Entlich]

Jan has provided a very good answer to this issue including the back
grounder on the class action against Epson, and some solutions
top getting around this.

A few extra thoughts.

1) The class action was only for US residents. The rest of us still
haven't received any compensation for those older printers with wasted ink.

2) I believe the printers which were included stretched more recently
than 1999

3) For most printers that the SCC utilities work with, the secret is to
"freeze the ink levels prior to them becoming officially "empty". Once
they reach the theoretical "empty" the SCC utility cannot reverse that.

4) per item 3, if you do freeze the ink level, you may drain the
cartridge empty and create an annoying, although nor irreversible air
lock in the head, which might waste some ink in resolving, making the
benefit less valuable.

Art

 

[Arthur Entlich]

One potential option regarding the extra ink in the cartridges when they
read empty is to save them up and when you have several, you can extract
the ink from a number of them and use it to refill one of the cartridges
of the same color. You can then have a full cartridge which you reset
with a chip resetter (selling for under $10 in most cases). You will
need to research the refilling process on the chipped cartridges on
Google, for instance.

The main thing is to keep the "empty" cartridges in zip lock plastic
bags until you extract the ink, to keep them from drying, and when you
do the extraction and refill process make sure you keep things clean nd
do not contaminate the ink with either other colors, dried ink or dust
and such.

When working with the inks, keep in mind they are toxic (containing
ethylene glycol and other chemicals which are poisonous to pets and
younger children, and that they can stain skin and objects within your
household. Wear plastic or rubber gloves.

Art

 

[Jan Alter]

Hi Art,
I had thought the printers included were to 1999, but I find the dates
cover specifically April '99 - May '06. And it hadn't occurred to me that
there were no international lawsuits going on about this event until you
mentioned that the settlement only affected the U.S.

Fortunately Rust Associates, the folks who handled the setttlement, still
have the website up where I could check that information.

http://www.epsonsettlement.com/Faq.htm

By the way, last week a C84 printer that I use let out its software
complaint that the sponge diaper was in need of change. I used the SCC
utility to reset it, but was quite surprised to see how soon Epson has the
alarm set to have the warning enable itself. Although I do a fair amount of
printing with it to make color certificates and posters for the school I
previously had used the Stylus 880 for much more printing over a three year
period and never got that warning. I'm thinking that Epson these days makes
more of an effort to get limited use out of their hardware before
replacement.
It is basically only that this company still makes the best photographic
inkjets on the planet that keeps me using them. I hate their environmental
methodology as well as as their tactics to extricate as much money as they
can from the consumer, while continuously waging a war on anyone who wants
to attempt to refill a cartridge.

 

[measekite]

Epson print heads are expensive and if run dry you have a major problem.  They leave about 15% left when then are considered empty.  This is taken into consideration in the label when they disclose the usable amount.

Nigel Andrews wrote:

I was disturbed to find that the carts which my Epson R300 claimed were empty (it wouldn't do anything until I swapped) still seemed to have substantial ink left in them (I shook them and heard liquid slopping around). I have the SCC utility but that doesn't seem to be able to force the printer to reset the levels. Does anyone experience this? Nigel

 

[measekite]

Jan Alter wrote:

"Nigel Andrews" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...



I was disturbed to find that the carts which my Epson R300 claimed were empty (it wouldn't do anything until I swapped) still seemed to have substantial ink left in them (I shook them and heard liquid slopping around). I have the SCC utility but that doesn't seem to be able to force the printer to reset the levels. Does anyone experience this? Nigel



The software on your computer and the chip attached to the cartridge keep count of how much you've printed and give an estimate of how much ink has been used. When the chip says empty there may be somewhere between 10 - 25 % of ink still remaining in the cartridge. The estimate is purposely conservative by Epson to disallow printing before the cartridge is actually empty because if you ran out of ink this could cause an annoying head clog or introduce air into the printhead which could easily create an airlock or at the minimum again cause premature drying of any ink in the printhead and again cause a head clog. To answer your question then; everyone using an Epson with chipped cartridges experiences this event to a more or lesser degree, but there is always left over ink, with possibly a rare exception. A couple of years ago a class action suit was brought against Epson for exactly what you're referring and a settlement was arranged for every person who had bought an Epson between 1999 - Apr. '96. The action claimed that Epson purposely configured its software and hardware to disallow printing even though there might be as much as 25% of the ink left in the cartridge. It claimed that consumers were being cheated of not being able to use the entire amount of ink they'd purchased. Rather than go to court Epson arranged to pay anyone who had bought one of their printers within that time frame a sum of $45 ($25 cash and $20 credit towards merchandise at their online store, or $45 credit towards merchandise at their online store). Since then Epson's lawyers have rewritten their acceptance of use policy when purchasing their printers. Whether or not that infers one can't sue them again for not being able to use the full amount of ink in the cartridge is an event to be seen. You could purchase a chip resetter and that would allow you use of the remaining ink in the cartridge, but that's iffy because you really can't see how much ink is left. For a good long term solution you can still purchase see - through spongeless cartridges at MIS, bulk ink, and a chip resetter for your R300. The cartridges are as easy to refill as filling a baby bottle.

It is not easy.  It is messy.  You will no longer have an Epson printer.  The ink is not as durable and the photos printed will not have the same quality.  If you are school kid print that kind of stuff then the quality makes no difference and that is what this poster does.  They print short lived throw away documents and if they print a lot then the risk of head clogging will be less.  They also are not concerned about paper profiles or exact color.


The ink is excellent (from my own experience using it on a dozen printers at my school for almost two years at this point) and you will not waste a cent or drop of ink because the you can keep resetting the cartridge chips and use all the ink. Additionally you will save a small fortune to what it would cost buying Epson ink and not be contributing empty plastic into landfills. http://www.inksupply.com/spongless_carts.cfm You will no doubt read the noise of MK; the NG printer troll, who is highly unaccepting of anyone elses opinions regarding refilling. I killfiled him awhile ago. You can figure his ramblings for yourself.

These people are not accepting of the truth.  Read the magazines like PCWorld or PC Magazine and then read the reports from Wilhelm labs.  Then make up your own mind.  Once usually buys a print based on the printers track record and reviews and these are done with OEM ink.


Jan Alter [email protected] [email protected]

 

[measekite]

Nigel Andrews wrote:

Jan, Thanks for that long and detailed explanation. I guess I just hadn't 'listened' to previous carts and heard the ink in those. It is scary how much ink/money we are all throwing away. It seems time for a real investigation into cart sales. I am in the U.K. and the government did an investigation into CD sales and unfair hyped prices. It seems that ink carts should undergo the same examination. Maybe we will see printer prices increase (some are sold at less than a set of branded carts would cost!) but at least it will be above board. You seem well informed. Is there a web resource which would explain (technically) the printing process of general or specific ink jet printers? Also, if it is not asking too much, a resource specific for printing problems with Epson Stylus Photo R300? many thanks

For a little more than the price of a set of carts for the Epson R300 you can get a Canon IP4500.  It has duplex printing and twin paper trays that the Epson does not have and the photo quality is better.  The carts are clear and have lights on them telling you when to change then and you can see they are empty.  The printer is much better.


Nigel "Jan Alter" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:aMGmj.3415$fs4.1375@trnddc02...



"Nigel Andrews" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...



I was disturbed to find that the carts which my Epson R300 claimed were empty (it wouldn't do anything until I swapped) still seemed to have substantial ink left in them (I shook them and heard liquid slopping around). I have the SCC utility but that doesn't seem to be able to force the printer to reset the levels. Does anyone experience this? Nigel



The software on your computer and the chip attached to the cartridge keep count of how much you've printed and give an estimate of how much ink has been used. When the chip says empty there may be somewhere between 10 - 25 % of ink still remaining in the cartridge. The estimate is purposely conservative by Epson to disallow printing before the cartridge is actually empty because if you ran out of ink this could cause an annoying head clog or introduce air into the printhead which could easily create an airlock or at the minimum again cause premature drying of any ink in the printhead and again cause a head clog. To answer your question then; everyone using an Epson with chipped cartridges experiences this event to a more or lesser degree, but there is always left over ink, with possibly a rare exception. A couple of years ago a class action suit was brought against Epson for exactly what you're referring and a settlement was arranged for every person who had bought an Epson between 1999 - Apr. '96. The action claimed that Epson purposely configured its software and hardware to disallow printing even though there might be as much as 25% of the ink left in the cartridge. It claimed that consumers were being cheated of not being able to use the entire amount of ink they'd purchased. Rather than go to court Epson arranged to pay anyone who had bought one of their printers within that time frame a sum of $45 ($25 cash and $20 credit towards merchandise at their online store, or $45 credit towards merchandise at their online store). Since then Epson's lawyers have rewritten their acceptance of use policy when purchasing their printers. Whether or not that infers one can't sue them again for not being able to use the full amount of ink in the cartridge is an event to be seen. You could purchase a chip resetter and that would allow you use of the remaining ink in the cartridge, but that's iffy because you really can't see how much ink is left. For a good long term solution you can still purchase see - through spongeless cartridges at MIS, bulk ink, and a chip resetter for your R300. The cartridges are as easy to refill as filling a baby bottle. The ink is excellent (from my own experience using it on a dozen printers at my school for almost two years at this point) and you will not waste a cent or drop of ink because the you can keep resetting the cartridge chips and use all the ink. Additionally you will save a small fortune to what it would cost buying Epson ink and not be contributing empty plastic into landfills. http://www.inksupply.com/spongless_carts.cfm You will no doubt read the noise of MK; the NG printer troll, who is highly unaccepting of anyone elses opinions regarding refilling. I killfiled him awhile ago. You can figure his ramblings for yourself. Jan Alter [email protected] [email protected]

 

[measekite]

Jan Alter wrote:

"Nigel Andrews" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...



Jan, Thanks for that long and detailed explanation. I guess I just hadn't 'listened' to previous carts and heard the ink in those. It is scary how much ink/money we are all throwing away. It seems time for a real investigation into cart sales. I am in the U.K. and the government did an investigation into CD sales and unfair hyped prices. It seems that ink carts should undergo the same examination. Maybe we will see printer prices increase (some are sold at less than a set of branded carts would cost!) but at least it will be above board. You seem well informed. Is there a web resource which would explain (technically) the printing process of general or specific ink jet printers? Also, if it is not asking too much, a resource specific for printing problems with Epson Stylus Photo R300? many thanks Nigel "Jan Alter" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:aMGmj.3415$fs4.1375@trnddc02...



"Nigel Andrews" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...



I was disturbed to find that the carts which my Epson R300 claimed were empty (it wouldn't do anything until I swapped) still seemed to have substantial ink left in them (I shook them and heard liquid slopping around). I have the SCC utility but that doesn't seem to be able to force the printer to reset the levels. Does anyone experience this? Nigel



The software on your computer and the chip attached to the cartridge keep count of how much you've printed and give an estimate of how much ink has been used. When the chip says empty there may be somewhere between 10 - 25 % of ink still remaining in the cartridge. The estimate is purposely conservative by Epson to disallow printing before the cartridge is actually empty because if you ran out of ink this could cause an annoying head clog or introduce air into the printhead which could easily create an airlock or at the minimum again cause premature drying of any ink in the printhead and again cause a head clog. To answer your question then; everyone using an Epson with chipped cartridges experiences this event to a more or lesser degree, but there is always left over ink, with possibly a rare exception. A couple of years ago a class action suit was brought against Epson for exactly what you're referring and a settlement was arranged for every person who had bought an Epson between 1999 - Apr. '96. The action claimed that Epson purposely configured its software and hardware to disallow printing even though there might be as much as 25% of the ink left in the cartridge. It claimed that consumers were being cheated of not being able to use the entire amount of ink they'd purchased. Rather than go to court Epson arranged to pay anyone who had bought one of their printers within that time frame a sum of $45 ($25 cash and $20 credit towards merchandise at their online store, or $45 credit towards merchandise at their online store). Since then Epson's lawyers have rewritten their acceptance of use policy when purchasing their printers. Whether or not that infers one can't sue them again for not being able to use the full amount of ink in the cartridge is an event to be seen. You could purchase a chip resetter and that would allow you use of the remaining ink in the cartridge, but that's iffy because you really can't see how much ink is left. For a good long term solution you can still purchase see - through spongeless cartridges at MIS, bulk ink, and a chip resetter for your R300. The cartridges are as easy to refill as filling a baby bottle. The ink is excellent (from my own experience using it on a dozen printers at my school for almost two years at this point) and you will not waste a cent or drop of ink because the you can keep resetting the cartridge chips and use all the ink. Additionally you will save a small fortune to what it would cost buying Epson ink and not be contributing empty plastic into landfills. http://www.inksupply.com/spongless_carts.cfm You will no doubt read the noise of MK; the NG printer troll, who is highly unaccepting of anyone elses opinions regarding refilling. I killfiled him awhile ago. You can figure his ramblings for yourself.



What I have acquired has been specific to my own needs as someone who takes care of some 80 Epson inkjets at our school for the past nine years and has been using Epson printers since '91. So if you wanted to know how well any of the Epson 740, 880, C80, C82, C84 and C88+ printers are doing I could readily tell you, and for the R1800 I run at home. There are several very well informed regulars

These are cult member who are not willing to use mfg OEM ink to get the best quality.  They are continually having issues.  You cannot read the thousands of NON POSTS because they are not there of people who are not having problems because they are using OEM ink, specifically Canon.  They rarely post because they do not have issues.


on this NG who have some vast overall knowledge of many makes of printers and also may have experience with the R300. They may chime in, and additionally you might want to start googling for specific problems with that printer. Jan Alter [email protected] or [email protected]

 

[measekite]

Hi Art,
I had thought the printers included were to 1999, but I find the dates
cover specifically April '99 - May '06. And it hadn't occurred to me that
there were no international lawsuits going on about this event until you
mentioned that the settlement only affected the U.S.

Fortunately Rust Associates, the folks who handled the setttlement, still
have the website up where I could check that information.

http://www.epsonsettlement.com/Faq.htm

By the way, last week a C84 printer that I use let out its software
complaint that the sponge diaper was in need of change. I used the SCC
utility to reset it, but was quite surprised to see how soon Epson has the
alarm set to have the warning enable itself. Although I do a fair amount of
printing with it to make color certificates and posters for the school I
previously had used the Stylus 880 for much more printing over a three year
period and never got that warning. I'm thinking that Epson these days makes
more of an effort to get limited use out of their hardware before
replacement.
It is basically only that this company still makes the best photographic
inkjets on the planet that keeps me using them.

Not true except for possible the 3800. The IP4500, Pro 9/9500 are
superior to Epson. I have done side by side testing. OEM ink of course.

 

[Aftermarketink]

It is not easy. It is messy. You will no longer have an Epson printer. The ink is not as durable and the >photos printed will not have the same quality. If you are school kid print that kind of stuff then the quality >makesno difference and that is what this poster does. They print short lived throw away documents and if >they print a lot then the risk of head clogging will be less. They also are not concerned about paper profiles >or exact color.

This is not true...

Your printer will still be an Epson.

These people are not accepting of the truth. Read the magazines like PCWorld or PC Magazine and then >read the reports from Wilhelm labs. Then make up your own mind. Once usually buys a print based on the >printers track record and reviews and these are done with OEM ink.

This is not true...

Most people buy a printer based on what the store sales person says or
what is the cheapest.

 

[Aftermarketink]

For a little more than the price of a set of carts for the Epson R300 you can get a Canon IP4500. It has duplex printing >and twin paper trays that the Epson does not have and the photo quality is better. The carts are clear and have lights on >them telling you when to change then and you can see they are empty. The printer is much better.

Again not true...

The Epson R300 print quality is better than the Canon IP4500. Epson is
know for it's pro level printers...Canon is not.

Canon cartridges do not have lights on them.

 

[Aftermarketink]

These are cult member who are not willing to use mfg OEM ink to get the best quality. They are continually having issues. You cannot >read the thousands of NON POSTS because they are not there of people who are not having problems because they are using OEM ink, >specifically Canon. They rarely postbecause they do not have issues.

Not true....

I use aftermarket ink in my Canon IP4000 because it is better overall
for me...and I have never had a problem with it. The amount of people
that post here with problems with thier printer only use OEM ink and
come here to report thier problems.

 

[Aftermarketink]

Not true except for possible the 3800.  The IP4500, Pro 9/9500 are
superior to Epson.  I have done side by side testing.  OEM ink of course.

Not True...

Epson printers are the choise of millions of pro's...Canon is not.
The Epson 3800 is far superior to any Canon printer. Epson is a better
printer thank Canon when it comes to photo's.

 

[Arthur Entlich]

Hi Jan,

The waste ink pad protection numbers are unique for each printer model,
based upon several factors:

1) The size/capacity of the pads

2) The amount of ink used in the cleaning cycles (depends upon the ink
formulation, and the head design and number of nozzles... more nozzles
more ink goes down the tubes per cleaning cycle)

3) The type of ink. Dye inks contain mainly water, alcohol and glycols.
with a tiny amount of colorant. The liquids are mainly volatile and
evaporate over time. Ultrachrome inks have more glycols which have low
volatility and also have pigment inks and resins which leave behind more
residue. Durabrite also leave behind a lot of ink residue. SO those
inks require more "space" to be used up in the pads. Also, the
Durabrite inks are faster drying and tend to crust over the surface of
the waste ink pads so additional wet ink may not absorb as well into the
pads.

4) Lastly, there is likely a game being played by Epson. If the waste
ink pad protection numbers get hit while the printer is still under
warranty, Epson gets stuck with having to exchange it, which is costly.

Let's just say that I would not be surprised if Epson has determined the
just right numbers to make sure that the vast majority of these printers
make it past the one year warranty period prior to throwing the error
for the protection numbers. The majority of users of these printers
will sadly discard them when they throw this code because they will be
told that the cost of replacing the waste ink pads approaches the cost
of replacing the printer, which is sadly often true. ALthough I cannot
guarantee that resetting the protection numbers once is completely safe,
in most cases one reset is OK, but I still suggest people place the
printer on some absorbent paper with [plastic below it, so should the
ink pads overflow and leak, the ink will not damage things.

The best answer to this is to look on the internet for instructions for
extending the waste ink tube out of the printer and placing it into a
bottle. Then the waste ink is stored in the bottle, and when full the
bottle can be capped and disposed of properly (depending upon your
local) and start a new bottle. You will still need to use the SCC or
front panel presses to reset the protection numbers when the printer
indicates they are being reached, but you don't need to worry about ink
leaking out of the bottom of the printer.

Lastly, you may be shocked about how much ink goes to waste from your
very costly cartridges since you have the external bottle, which may
explain why Epson doesn't make such a design, as it would be pretty
obvious how much of your ink doesn't end up on the paper.

Art

 

[Arthur Entlich]

LOL.

Epson apparently is working on a technology that will change the brand
name of their printers if you use 3rd party inks, refills, or even
non-Epson paper. Other inkjet manufacturers are sure to follow.

<Grin>

Art

 

[tomm42]

Not True...

Epson printers are the choise of millions of pro's...Canon is not.
The Epson 3800 is far superior to any Canon printer. Epson is a better
printer thank Canon when it comes to photo's.

Yes Epson is has pros using their printers, but those printers are
very different than their desktop models. Very different cartridge,
head assembly. This starts with the Pro 3800 printer. Canon is making
inroads into the pro printer market as is HP, the reason Epson sold so
many printers is they were excellent printers for their price point
and Epson had no competition. Now that HP and Canon have excellent pro
printers the markets are changing.

Tom

 

[measekite]

tomm42 wrote:

On Jan 27, 5:09 pm, [email protected] wrote:



On Jan 27, 12:39 pm, measekite &lt;[email protected]&gt; wrote:



Not true except for possible the 3800. The IP4500, Pro 9/9500 are superior to Epson. I have done side by side testing. OEM ink of course.



Not True... Epson printers are the choise of millions of pro's...Canon is not. The Epson 3800 is far superior to any Canon printer.

The Canon EFT5000 may print better photos in a number of circumstances but Epson stands behind the 3800 better than Canon does behind theirs.&nbsp; Canon also had some mechanical problems but that may have been corrected.


Epson is a better printer thank Canon when it comes to photo's.

Except for the 3800 printer, all of the lower priced Epson printers are not as good (results wise) as the Canon printers.


Yes Epson is has pros using their printers, but those printers are very different than their desktop models. Very different cartridge, head assembly. This starts with the Pro 3800 printer. Canon is making inroads into the pro printer market as is HP, the reason Epson sold so many printers is they were excellent printers for their price point and Epson had no competition. Now that HP and Canon have excellent pro printers the markets are changing. Tom