Email correction

[Arthur Entlich]

I just posted an alternative email address to reach me, but I made an
error. My apologies.


The correct temporary email address is:

eprinterhelp(at)yahoo(dot)com

(at) = @
(dot) = .

Thank you.

Art

 

[TJ]

I just posted an alternative email address to reach me, but I made an
error. My apologies.


The correct temporary email address is:

eprinterhelp(at)yahoo(dot)com

(at) = @
(dot) = .

Thank you.

Art

First energy costs go out of sight, then major parties in the US select
idiots for Presidential candidates, financial entities start failing,
governments step in with massive "rescue" cash and interest rate cuts,
global stock markets go nuts, and finally, Arthur Entlich makes a mistake.

We are in deep, deep trouble. ;^)

(Sorry, Art. I couldn't resist.)

TJ

 

[measekite]

First energy costs go out of sight, then major parties in the US select
idiots for Presidential candidates, financial entities start failing,
governments step in with massive "rescue" cash and interest rate cuts,
global stock markets go nuts, and finally, Arthur Entlich makes a
mistake.

Is that in addition to top posting?

 

[Arthur Entlich]

You forgot that Canada is going to the polls this coming Tuesday, right
after our Thanksgiving holiday (hey, things get colder sooner up here!)...

Our election was called (it wasn't supposed to occur until a year from
now) at the beginning of September, and 40 or so days later we're
voting. The opposition parties hardly had the time to select
candidates, and several had to drop out as scandals have unfolded about
them. A strategic voting system has been designed on the web by some
people, and is getting traction, and another website is offering vote
matching so people who are "forced" to vote a certain way in their
riding to make sure the Conservatives don't get back into power, can
trade their vote with someone who promises to vote in their riding for
the candidate. This is necessary this election because while there is
basically on viable Right Wing party, there are 4 or more on the other
side, and the fear is the Right Wing will walk up the center and win.

The way things stand about 30% of the vote can win a position as a
result of the many parties.

As to my error... maybe I was just a bit distracted as about 40% of my
net worth slide away between the stock market and the fact that the Can
currency went from about 92-94 US cents per CAN $, to 83 US cents per
Can $, meaning our imports will be up about 15% or more, and we now have
half the money to spend!

I'm voting for Jimmy Carter, myself ;-)

Art




If you are interested in issues surrounding e-waste,
I invite you to enter the discussion at my blog:

http://e-trashtalk.spaces.live.com/

 

[TJ]

You forgot that Canada is going to the polls this coming Tuesday, right
after our Thanksgiving holiday (hey, things get colder sooner up here!)...

Our election was called (it wasn't supposed to occur until a year from
now) at the beginning of September, and 40 or so days later we're
voting. The opposition parties hardly had the time to select
candidates, and several had to drop out as scandals have unfolded about
them. A strategic voting system has been designed on the web by some
people, and is getting traction, and another website is offering vote
matching so people who are "forced" to vote a certain way in their
riding to make sure the Conservatives don't get back into power, can
trade their vote with someone who promises to vote in their riding for
the candidate. This is necessary this election because while there is
basically on viable Right Wing party, there are 4 or more on the other
side, and the fear is the Right Wing will walk up the center and win.

The way things stand about 30% of the vote can win a position as a
result of the many parties.

As to my error... maybe I was just a bit distracted as about 40% of my
net worth slide away between the stock market and the fact that the Can
currency went from about 92-94 US cents per CAN $, to 83 US cents per
Can $, meaning our imports will be up about 15% or more, and we now have
half the money to spend!

I'm voting for Jimmy Carter, myself ;-)

Art

Don't get me started on elections. I'm a voting inspector in my county,
one of the folks that check to see if voters are properly registered
before allowing them to vote, and we operate the voting machines, too.
NY dragged it's collective feet in complying with HAVA (Help America
Vote Act. Sigh. Why do they need these cutsey names?), and this election
is the first where the new "Accessible" voting machines will be used by
those with "Special Needs." (I believe that is the currently politically
correct term, anyway.) The ballot marker device will be used, but since
the optical scanner part hasn't been "verified" yet, most people will be
using the old lever machines.

Thank God for small favors. The new machine is a disaster to set up. The
swivel joints of the screen are so tight that only the stronger half of
the general population will be able to move it from storage/transport
into operating position. They tell us they will get better with use, but
why couldn't they have put tension adjusting hand wheels on those
joints? This is a single-purpose machine, yet it takes nearly five
minutes to boot up. My Linux computer takes just a shade over two
minutes, and it has a lot more to do than this device. Anybody can use
the device if they so choose, but it will take around 25 minutes to
vote, and there's no way to speed it up for those with fewer special
needs than others. Whoever programmed that software should be fired.

I don't automatically resist change, but I don't want to change unless
it's for the better, and these machines are not for the better. We've
used one version or another of the lever machines for 100 years. People
trust them, and they have been reliable. I seriously doubt these
machines will be used for more than 15 or 20 years, if that.

TJ

 

[Arthur Entlich]

Excuse me if I laugh (not out loud, mind you ;-)) I was a poll sitter
for the Dems back in the '70s in New Jersey. I held up the vote count
in our district one federal election because the voting machines arrived
not zeroed, and I refused to allow the polling station to open until
the machines were validated/verified with the numbers that arrived with
to be subtracted from the final totals.

I have never trusted voting machines, lever type, electronic, etc. Here
in Canada (and I have poll sat on many votes over the years) we have
only used (well at least in my area) paper ballots which are verifiable.
Yes, it takes time to count them all, and yes, sometimes there are
minor disputes, but at the end we get real and verified results. Not
saying we don't have small scandals (like voting boxes disappearing from
advance polls, or broken seals), but overall it's a pretty clean
election from what everyone who cares has been able to determine.

In the US, I've seen very little to give me faith in the voting system
(my parents lived in Palm Beach County during the previous two
presidential elections - you know the capital of hanging chads...)).

Well, in less than 48 hours, the outcome of our federal election will be
known, and I can decide if we'll be looking for a new country to move to!

With fingers crossed and double-crossed ;-)

Art


If you are interested in issues surrounding e-waste,
I invite you to enter the discussion at my blog:

http://e-trashtalk.spaces.live.com/

 

[IntergalacticExpandingPanda]

I have never trusted voting machines, lever type, electronic, etc. Here
in Canada (and I have poll sat on many votes over the years) we have
only used (well at least in my area) paper ballots which are verifiable.
Yes, it takes time to count them all, and yes, sometimes there are
minor disputes, but at the end we get real and verified results. Not
saying we don't have small scandals (like voting boxes disappearing from
advance polls, or broken seals), but overall it's a pretty clean
election from what everyone who cares has been able to determine.

Not to insult Canada or anything, but their population is 33,390,141
(July 2007 est.) according to
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/print/ca.html

US is 301,139,947 also according to CIA.gov (July 2007 est.)

Given a factor of 10 increase, it's pretty reasonable to expect a
swifter voting system. That being said, I actually like the old
school paper ballets, but I understand the need to tally them more
quickly, either a fill in the blank or punch card system makes a fair
amount of sense.

I'm not a fan of totally electronic systems. While they make sense in
terms of speed and cost, there were too many issue with the Diabold
system. I'd consider electronic if hard copy backup was issued.

 

[Arthur Entlich]

No insult taken by me, at least... however, let's look at a few things

OK, there are 10 x the people in the US (although not ten times as many
vote... but, there is a demand for job too. What if they hired 10 times
as many people to count ballots, and it what, tripled (actually unlikely
as it is just a small part of overall expenses) the cost of the election
process... wouldn't that be a small price to pay to possible actually
get the president the majority voted for, rather than the last two
election results.

Now, in fairness, we have few, if any referendums, and we don't have an
many layers of elected official in our government. For instance, our
senate is not currently elected, it is appointed, and we don't have
resolutions, and votes for things like sheriffs and judges. We also
have elections during different times of the year. For instance, our
federal election just happened to be called for now, our municipal are
in November and of Provincial in our province are in May of next year.

We sure do like our elections ;-)


However, I'll go for a system with a verifiable printed form (see,
there's the printer reference ;-). Anything that allows for a very
difficult method to alter election results... now if we can just figure
out a way to get more people to the polls, and for the people who do get
there to be allowed to vote equally without consideration of their
ethnicity or voting preference.


Art

If you are interested in issues surrounding e-waste,
I invite you to enter the discussion at my blog:

http://e-trashtalk.spaces.live.com/

 

[IntergalacticExpandingPanda]

No insult taken by me, at least... however, let's look at a few things

OK, there are 10 x the people in the US (although not ten times as many
vote... but, there is a demand for job too. What if they hired 10 times
as many people to count ballots, and it what, tripled (actually unlikely
as it is just a small part of overall expenses) the cost of the election
process... wouldn't that be a small price to pay to possible actually
get the president the majority voted for, rather than the last two
election results.

Well, you rather have a point about the last president the last couple
of elections.

Look, I'm all for hard copy, and verifying the results. However for
speed and accuracy, I have no issue with electronic readers. If I had
total control, I would use either a punch card or fill in the blank
system. mechanically or electronically read, and poof results in short
order. This would be followed up by manual counting. If there is a
wide inconsistency, another machine and human recount. If that fails,
toss out the election, hold a revote.

 

[TJ]

Well, you rather have a point about the last president the last couple
of elections.

Not from where I sit. GWB did not win the popular vote in 2000, but he
did win the electoral vote. Independent re-counts of the questioned
Florida ballots resulted in giving the state's electoral votes to GWB,
even if the Supreme Court had not stepped in. IIRC, GWB won the popular
vote in 2004, as well as the electoral vote. You could hire 1000 times
more ballot counters, and it won't change the way we determine who gets
how many electoral votes. I'm no constitutional scholar, but I believe
that power is held by the various state legislatures. Eliminating the
Electoral College altogether so the President is elected by the popular
vote would require an amendment to the Constitution.

Look, I'm all for hard copy, and verifying the results. However for
speed and accuracy, I have no issue with electronic readers. If I had
total control, I would use either a punch card or fill in the blank
system. mechanically or electronically read, and poof results in short
order. This would be followed up by manual counting. If there is a
wide inconsistency, another machine and human recount. If that fails,
toss out the election, hold a revote.

I'm against punch cards, unless the whole hanging/dimpled chad mess is
straightened out. Unless you rule that a vote must be thrown out unless
one and only one hole is completely punched out per office (except for
those where it's a vote-for-any-two type), it's as worthless as allowing
stray marks on a fill-in-the-blanks ballot.

TJ

 

[IntergalacticExpandingPanda]

I'm against punch cards, unless the whole hanging/dimpled chad mess is
straightened out. Unless you rule that a vote must be thrown out unless
one and only one hole is completely punched out per office (except for
those where it's a vote-for-any-two type), it's as worthless as allowing
stray marks on a fill-in-the-blanks ballot.

Valid point. I'm speaking ideally. Fill in the blank seems to work
where I live. That is the standard for schools, people know how to do
it. It can be read visually or electronically. Punch cards are
likely to be faster but as you pointed out, there have been issues
with people who can't punch.

At least with fill in the blank, there are digital solutions, which
would likely involve a printer and a screen. So long as it's the hard
copy that matters, something that can be verified, that's fine by me.

 

[Arthur Entlich]

Speaking of close races, our election results just came in, and for my
riding, the winner did so by 68 votes, a little over .1% of the overall
vote. It was nearly the last riding to be announced. I'm guessing a
recount is in the cards.

BTW, it was a horrible election,IMHO, the Conservatives got a greater
mandate than last time (but they still didn't get a majority, at least).

Art


If you are interested in issues surrounding e-waste,
I invite you to enter the discussion at my blog:

http://e-trashtalk.spaces.live.com/

 

[Arthur Entlich]

You're right, of course. He won by not allowing thousands of people in
certain electoral districts and demographics to register or to vote (or
both), not by cheating on the counting... that just added to the deceit
;-) BTW, there were numerous cases of no paper trail and Diebold
machines with "funny software".

Art


If you are interested in issues surrounding e-waste,
I invite you to enter the discussion at my blog:

http://e-trashtalk.spaces.live.com/